Canadian Division (Canada Cup) Part XI

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snowkiddin

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Feb 26, 2016
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Panarin left for NY compared to Columbus.

Columbus has never been able to keep players. Neither player was drafted by the team as well.

Stars drafted by their team is probably what I should’ve said.
Does Pietrangelo count? Top pairing D and captain on a Stanley Cup winner. Also, an Olympian. Missing that Norris trophy though.
 

DuckyGirard

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May 23, 2021
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More than Matthews and Tavares. That type of cap hit cannot be moved, and if McDavid is traded I would bet my life it won’t be to add salary, and for sure not with that added salary being Tavares.
I'm not a leafs fan, it's an easy example because we all know them.

What do you think is a reasonable scenario?
 

ALine

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May 14, 2012
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Other than Tavares? JVR the same year left the Leafs. Stastny left he Jets. How about Panarin? Bobrosvky? I am sure it happens almost every year, to various degrees. Chara left the Bruins this year (though I guess Chara was no longer a star).

They had not sucked for the previous decade. They had back to back 100 point seasons just 2 years prior.

I guess it is rare. Certainly for a Matthews caliber of player. Only one that spring to mind was Teemu Selanne bolting from Colorado back to Anaheim.

Agree to disagree.

I have given a basis for why he could leave as a UFA.

More? New York Rangers and LA Kings. Also, there is a massive opportunity in Arizona should he choose to sign there.

JVR was told my management prior to free agency that we wouldn't be re-signed, and to explore his UFA options. And quite frankly its telling that you have to dip into players like JVR and Statsny to make a point about star players leaving in UFA. No where near the same level as a Matthews or Mcdavid. Tavares and Pietrangelo are basically your only two examples, but given the circumstances, they more support the argument of the poster your quoting.

Selanne left a good Avs team to go back to Anaheim, a team he spent what, six year with previously. And won a cup, to boot. Again your own example serves only to support said quoted posters argument. Went back to whats familiar, comfortable, with a good chance of winning.

Phoenix isn't a spotlight no matter how you say it.

But i will agree with your agreement to agree to disagree.
 

Heldig

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Apr 12, 2002
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JVR was told my management prior to free agency that we wouldn't be re-signed, and to explore his UFA options. And quite frankly its telling that you have to dip into players like JVR and Statsny to make a point about star players leaving in UFA. No where near the same level as a Matthews or Mcdavid. Tavares and Pietrangelo are basically your only two examples, but given the circumstances, they more support the argument of the poster your quoting.

Selanne left a good Avs team to go back to Anaheim, a team he spent what, six year with previously. And won a cup, to boot. Again your own example serves only to support said quoted posters argument. Went back to whats familiar, comfortable, with a good chance of winning.

Phoenix isn't a spotlight no matter how you say it.

But i will agree with your agreement to agree to disagree.
Frankly, you selectively referenced what I said and ignored relevant bits. For example, "I guess it is rare. Certainly for a Matthews caliber of player."

As for dipping into players like JVR and Stastny, what about Panarin and Bobrovsky? Panarin is certainly on the level of Matthews.

And yes, Selanne left a good team to go to a good, familiar team. Is that not kind of the same as a player leaving a good team as a UFA to go to his hometown team? Add the fact Matthews is an American. He may want to go home for that reason, too.

Phoenix not a spotlight? Do you mean the team? 5th largest city in the USA. Huge potential for a homegrown, hispanic hockey player. Add in the new billionaire owner and his many business interests (which include restaurant chains, casinos, banks and television stations).
 

nobody

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Aug 8, 2017
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More than Matthews and Tavares. That type of cap hit cannot be moved, and if McDavid is traded I would bet my life it won’t be to add salary, and for sure not with that added salary being Tavares.

With all due respect to the people of Edmonton, JT isn't waiving his NMC to go to the Oilers.
 
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Dache

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Feb 12, 2018
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I'm not a leafs fan, it's an easy example because we all know them.

What do you think is a reasonable scenario?
I never assumed you were a leaf fan. This has nothing to do with you being a leaf fan or not. A reasonable scenario using some similar pieces would be Matthews or Marner (most likely Matthews) and some picks/prospects. The oilers lose the best player but save on cap and get young elc players in addition.
 

ALine

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May 14, 2012
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Frankly, you selectively referenced what I said and ignored relevant bits. For example, "I guess it is rare. Certainly for a Matthews caliber of player."

As for dipping into players like JVR and Stastny, what about Panarin and Bobrovsky? Panarin is certainly on the level of Matthews.

And yes, Selanne left a good team to go to a good, familiar team. Is that not kind of the same as a player leaving a good team as a UFA to go to his hometown team? Add the fact Matthews is an American. He may want to go home for that reason, too.

Phoenix not a spotlight? Do you mean the team? 5th largest city in the USA. Huge potential for a homegrown, hispanic hockey player. Add in the new billionaire owner and his many business interests (which include restaurant chains, casinos, banks and television stations).

I agree its completely rare. Almost unheard of for a player like Matthews to leave. Panarin played out his contract after being traded to what he deemed an undesirable situation. Not a great example. Somewhat similar to the tavares situation, in that he left for a younger, up and coming team in a big hockey market. Except Columbus didn't draft him.

When talking spot light, it was to be understood we're still talking about hockey players, not
movie stars. It comes down to the hockey market, when talking about 'spotlight'. Just for fun I checked a few phoenix news outlets for hockey stories, and found Panik's arrest and puff pieces about Shane Doan are still top of this list. A much more desirable spotlight for a young hispanic american hockey player is in the biggest hockey market in the world, which also happens to be one of the most diverse cities in the world, ethnically speaking. Add in a rabid hockey media, and the many endorsement opportunities.

Selanne is nothing like a UFA going home if that home team isn't as competitive and comfortable as the team he's leaving. I don't see Phoenix as a contender by then, but your milage may vary on that statement.

I will allow you to strike to Bobrovsky reference from your argument. That was a terrible signing before the ink was dry. IIRC Columbus didn't even make a serious offer to him like they did with Panarin. Might as well just say David Clarkson proves that Matthews will go home.
 

Heldig

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Apr 12, 2002
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I agree its completely rare. Almost unheard of for a player like Matthews to leave. Panarin played out his contract after being traded to what he deemed an undesirable situation. Not a great example. Somewhat similar to the tavares situation, in that he left for a younger, up and coming team in a big hockey market. Except Columbus didn't draft him.

When talking spot light, it was to be understood we're still talking about hockey players, not
movie stars. It comes down to the hockey market, when talking about 'spotlight'. Just for fun I checked a few phoenix news outlets for hockey stories, and found Panik's arrest and puff pieces about Shane Doan are still top of this list. A much more desirable spotlight for a young hispanic american hockey player is in the biggest hockey market in the world, which also happens to be one of the most diverse cities in the world, ethnically speaking. Add in a rabid hockey media, and the many endorsement opportunities.

Selanne is nothing like a UFA going home if that home team isn't as competitive and comfortable as the team he's leaving. I don't see Phoenix as a contender by then, but your milage may vary on that statement.

I will allow you to strike to Bobrovsky reference from your argument. That was a terrible signing before the ink was dry. IIRC Columbus didn't even make a serious offer to him like they did with Panarin. Might as well just say David Clarkson proves that Matthews will go home.

If we are narrowing the goalposts now to only include NHL stars that left the team that drafted them as UFA's to sign with their hometown team then yes, that list is undoubtedly very small. Tavares certainly is one.

I have acknowledged that Phoenix is not a great hockey market right now. Maybe it never will be. Maybe the new owner is finally the right guy and has hired the right GM and management group and the team finally gets it's **** together. 3 or 4 years is a long time in pro sports. Maybe they finally get lottery luck and draft Shane Wright in 2022 and that helps turn the franchise around.

Lots of unknowns. And that kind of was the point to begin with.
 

Hollywood3

Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
May 12, 2007
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IMO there exists a strong chance Matthews signs with Phoenix.

Leafs fans are delusional. Once they return to the usual divisions next year the Leafs will be 50-50 to make the playoffs. The Atlantic will likely have just 3 playoff berths to share amongst Boston, Tampa, and Florida. And if they do make the playoffs they will likely be the underdog in the first round. So the next 5 years after this, they would do well to win the opening round twice.

Meanwhile, Edmonton will be in the weak Pacific Division. They look to be a top 2 team going forward.

Arizona moves to the tough Central Division where they will likely not be in the top 5 (and it looks like the division will get both wildcards for a while).
 

c9777666

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Aug 31, 2016
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Phoenix is a toxic mess

why would matthews want to leave marner and Tavares for........ a team with a supporting cast even worse than EDM’s non 97/29 guys?
 
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The90

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Feb 27, 2017
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IMO there exists a strong chance Matthews signs with Phoenix.

Leafs fans are delusional. Once they return to the usual divisions next year the Leafs will be 50-50 to make the playoffs. The Atlantic will likely have just 3 playoff berths to share amongst Boston, Tampa, and Florida. And if they do make the playoffs they will likely be the underdog in the first round. So the next 5 years after this, they would do well to win the opening round twice.

Meanwhile, Edmonton will be in the weak Pacific Division. They look to be a top 2 team going forward.

Arizona moves to the tough Central Division where they will likely not be in the top 5 (and it looks like the division will get both wildcards for a while).
You could’ve saved us a bit of reading and wrote: ‘I hope Matthews signs in Phoenix’
 

keglu

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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Lmao please find where I said McDavid was signing in Toronto.

Pot meet kettle only works if you’re not making things up.

Matthews is on pace to be the leading goal scorer and point scorer in a leafs history. He’ll have the biggest trophy case by the time he’s done and he plays on a cup favourite.

If he wins the cup there’s no question he’ll go down as the greatest. But name one star who won a cup and left?

What’s more likely the start player on a good team stays? Or the star player on a team that has nothing else stays?

Toronto isn’t like the Alberta or Manitoba teams. It’s a nice city where people actually want to live. We don’t lose any player we want to keep.

Alex Pietrangelo
And if you want Toronto example from other sport: Kawhi Leonard.
Its not that far fetched. Obviously we dont know what AM thinks so your speculation is as good as others.
 

Mats13

Registered User
Apr 22, 2015
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IMO there exists a strong chance Matthews signs with Phoenix.

Leafs fans are delusional. Once they return to the usual divisions next year the Leafs will be 50-50 to make the playoffs. The Atlantic will likely have just 3 playoff berths to share amongst Boston, Tampa, and Florida. And if they do make the playoffs they will likely be the underdog in the first round. So the next 5 years after this, they would do well to win the opening round twice.

Meanwhile, Edmonton will be in the weak Pacific Division. They look to be a top 2 team going forward.

Arizona moves to the tough Central Division where they will likely not be in the top 5 (and it looks like the division will get both wildcards for a while).

Lol
 

Hollywood3

Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
May 12, 2007
6,441
941
Phoenix is a toxic mess

why would matthews want to leave marner and Tavares for........ a team with a supporting cast even worse than EDM’s non 97/29 guys?
Who says that the situation will remain that way? And if Arizona remains weak, how about another team in the Southwest?
 

nobody

Registered User
Aug 8, 2017
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Must be a new hockey fan. Telling us about the blood bath that is the Atlantic division. :laugh::laugh:

I absolutely love how ignorant many hockey fans are especially on HF. Leafs get trashed for losing to an absolute powerhouse in Boston while being heavy underdogs and yet still making a 7 game series of it. Meanwhile, the Oilers get a bye for losing to a great Jets team (who are not the Bruins) while being the heavy favorites in 4 f***ing games.

Cry us a river, guys.
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
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I hate to kick people when they are down, but a lot of this is coming from the @!##@$ talking that so many Oilers fans were doing prior to this series. We kept hearing:

1. The Oilers have the two best players in the league.
2. The Oilers have so much depth. Yamamoto and Pool Party are legit top lines players, etc..
3. The Oilers are another tier from the teams playing in the North Division.
4. The Oilers defensive depth is among the best in the league.

etc....

Can we finally admit the obvious.

Draisaitl is not on the level of a player like MacKinnon.

The Oilers have bad defence and horrible offensive depth.
 
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Lilou

t-.-t
Oct 29, 2008
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IMO there exists a strong chance Matthews signs with Phoenix.

Leafs fans are delusional. Once they return to the usual divisions next year the Leafs will be 50-50 to make the playoffs. The Atlantic will likely have just 3 playoff berths to share amongst Boston, Tampa, and Florida. And if they do make the playoffs they will likely be the underdog in the first round. So the next 5 years after this, they would do well to win the opening round twice.

Meanwhile, Edmonton will be in the weak Pacific Division. They look to be a top 2 team going forward.

Arizona moves to the tough Central Division where they will likely not be in the top 5 (and it looks like the division will get both wildcards for a while).

I laughed IRL :lol:
 

Heldig

Registered User
Apr 12, 2002
16,879
10,226
BC
Phoenix is a toxic mess

why would matthews want to leave marner and Tavares for........ a team with a supporting cast even worse than EDM’s non 97/29 guys?
1 - thing can change in 3 years
2 - supporting cast is better than Edmonton's (just nothing close to the big 2)
3 - see #1 - maybe Matthews has done all he can in Toronto and wants to bring a championship to his hometown.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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Really don't need this thread anymore, the regular season is over and the Playoffs will answer the question. Mosey on over there if you wish.

Good thread series, 11 parts not bad.
 
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