Canadian Division (Canada Cup) Part XI

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nobody

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Hear me out on this:

Matthews can choose to go to 31 other teams IF he wants to. You just never know with the younger stars nowadays. Doesn’t seem like loyalty is top priority anymore.

No one is talking about loyalty. I'm literally saying, he's going to get his $ and he gets to be the top dog in the spotlight as a Leafs centerpiece. If you know Matthews' personality, he loves the limelight and he loves the fact that he's always being talked up. He's not going to go to some franchise just to become a forgotten star player. The only teams where I can see Auston being enticed to go are the Rangers and maybe Montreal. So realistically speaking, there aren't 31 other teams. There's maybe 5. And unless those teams are giving him more value than the Leafs, I just don't see any reason for him to leave.

I'm saying McDavid is leaving not because he's not gonna get his $ from the Oilers or the same hype. He's gonna leave because he's been stuck in an abusive relationship. And he will have a chance to play for a better run organization while playing at home and getting his $$. There's a lot of incentives for him to come to play for the Leafs. A hell of a lot more than "legacy" or "loyalty". :laugh::laugh:

I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with what I'm saying because we're literally stating the same points. Only thing that would keep McDavid in an Oilers uniform is if they turn the ship around in the next year or two (which is what we've been saying for 4 years now) OR he's really committed to being loyal to the franchise. And as you said and I agreed, there are no loyalties in sports. If player A is getting the same money from 2 different franchises, he's going to go to the one that has better prospects of winning, more stability, better lifestyle, familiarity, etc. Leafs provide him with everything Edmonton can and much much more. It's honestly a no-brainer.

Matthews could leave, sure. But there's no franchise out there that really trumps what the Leafs are offering. At best, they will match it. Tavares chose to leave an extra $1 mil on the table playing for the Leafs instead of signing with the Sharks because the Leafs simply offer him more stability, as good a roster (much younger core than Sharks), and opportunity of winning and familiarity (since he's a hometown kid).

I remember there was so much talk about Stamkos leaving and coming home and I for one had no reason to believe it to be true because the Leafs couldn't offer more than what he had with Tampa. He played for a lesser cap hit (helping his own team) while getting the same money, playing on a superior team, while having established a family in Tampa. And the entire time he's been a player in Tampa, he's been treated exceptionally. He had no reason to leave. He would be leaving a sure thing for uncertainty hoping that Matthews would be a good player or that Marner would be able to adjust to the league. JT came into a much more of a sure thing. McDavid would be doing much the same.
 
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nobody

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I know Leafs fans get grilled a ton because we talk about player X and player Y coming home to play for the buds but the reality is all that wishful thinking was wishful thinking because our teams were absolute hot garbage. I think it was Brian Burke who said this when he was our GM. He said it's hard to sell the team to hometown guy because being a hometown team isn't an incentive. There's a lot of pressure that comes along with the job and most guys aren't looking for that type of pressure simply because they know they're going to have to come in and be the "savior". The few guys that have taken that leap have gotten absolutely slammed by the TO media and fanbase (I'm looking at you Mr. Clarkson).

For the first time since the early 2000s. The Leafs are finally actually good and stable. They have a front office filled with very good people who are very good at recruiting talent. We have a core group of players who were mostly homegrown and raised by us and they know the pressures of playing in TO and have thrived. Any guy we add to the mix, whether it's young or old is simply here to play a role. They're not going to be the "savior" and that makes the situation so much more attractive especially for hometown kids because they have families and ties in the area and if the money works, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't come back and win in an environment that isn't going to slam them as they did previously with guys like David Clarkson.

This ain't the same Leafs organization that you grew up watching or your parents grew up with. They have competent people. And our GM is a little "too generous" for some people's liking so, players should be chomping at the bit to take him to the woodshed on their contracts. :laugh:

There's a reason why we've gotten guys like Spezza, Thornton, Marleau, JT, Simmonds, Bogosian, Foligno, Brodie, etc. No, these guys aren't all sexy names or big-time difference makers but they're guys that wouldn't have looked at the Leafs twice in years past. They willingly came to us because the team gave them opportunities and good roles and in some cases good money. If this was a Leafs team 5-10 years ago, we don't have any hope of landing any of these guys unless they were extremely desperate for an NHL job.

I respect the Montreal Canadians fanbase a ton. But there's a reason why players don't line up to sign with the Habs and a ton of that has to do with their front office. The city is beautiful and the people are amazing but when you have a clown as a GM and incompetent ownership, it's hard to attract many talents. And before someone throws Tyler Toffoli in my face, Toffoli went to the highest bidder that gave him the best opportunity to play. Had Jim Benning not been a bigger idiot than MB, Toffoli is still a Canuck and the Leafs are probably playing the Canucks in the first round this year.
 
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Mats13

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Link for Matthews wanted 8 years, and had to settle for 5 years.

Leafs lock up Auston Matthews with a team-friendly five-year, $58.17 million extension

Matthews initially wanted an eight-year term, which would have cost the Maple Leafs a pretty sum, possibly as much as $13 million to $14 million a year, since he would have been sacrificing a few years of free agency.
It would have squeezed the cap so tightly that some good players might have had to be moved to create cap space. Dubas said Matthews showed his commitment to the team by offering a shorter term.

Straight from Dubas.

Here it is from Matthews himself:

“You know, a lot of guys have done five years before,” Matthews said. “We understand the cap restraints we have, the league, and every single team has, so we went through everything from three to eight, and kind of settled on five, so I think both sides are obviously happy and happy to get this over with. For myself, I’m proud and, for my family, I’m extremely excited
 

Golden_Jet

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Leafs lock up Auston Matthews with a team-friendly five-year, $58.17 million extension

Matthews initially wanted an eight-year term, which would have cost the Maple Leafs a pretty sum, possibly as much as $13 million to $14 million a year, since he would have been sacrificing a few years of free agency.
It would have squeezed the cap so tightly that some good players might have had to be moved to create cap space. Dubas said Matthews showed his commitment to the team by offering a shorter term.

Straight from Dubas.

Here it is from Matthews himself:

“You know, a lot of guys have done five years before,” Matthews said. “We understand the cap restraints we have, the league, and every single team has, so we went through everything from three to eight, and kind of settled on five, so I think both sides are obviously happy and happy to get this over with. For myself, I’m proud and, for my family, I’m extremely excited

Thanks
Not sure why he thought he should be paid more than McDavid,
I guess the worst part is he signed a contract that takes him to UFA, with no UFA years bought.
 

Mats13

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Thanks
Not sure why he thought he should be paid more than McDavid,
I guess the worst part is he signed a contract that takes him to UFA, with no UFA years bought.

Different circumstances and cap was higher. He wanted the same % and no Leafs fan has an issue with that.

It also doesn’t help that Babcock is a dick.

Regardless, this is the NHL. How often do star players leave their team? It only happens if the team sucks for way too long. Otherwise players stay put. It’s that simple.
 

Heldig

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@nobody @Mats13 we are ALL speculating on what may happen in 3,4 or 5 years down the road. Yet I get called delusional for merely saying there is a possibility Matthews chooses to sign for his hometown team as a UFA. Your reasons he would not do such a thing are pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Maybe everything works perfectly for Matthews and the Leafs and you go on a dynasty run winning multiple cups and Matthews is anointed as the greatest Leaf of all time. Or maybe the Habs knock off the Leafs in the first round this playoff and the Leaf board bursts in flames. Or something in between.

The fact he likes playing in Toronto on a good team

You criticize the Coyotes and I understand that. Well deserved. But things change. Covid aside, the new owner has $$$. We dont know what the team will be in 3 years. Maybe they are a contender themselves and the missing piece is a bonafide, homegrown élite #1 C.

As for nice cities, I am not suggesting a star player would leave the centre of the hockey universe for Winnipeg. Apparently a lot of people do like living in Phoenix though.
 
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nobody

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Thanks
Not sure why he thought he should be paid more than McDavid,
I guess the worst part is he signed a contract that takes him to UFA, with no UFA years bought.
They bought 2 or 3 years of UFA from him. Matthews knew his value and he asked for it. His contract isn't really that inflated. McDavid and Draisaitl (especially Drai) took very team-friendly deals and are severely undervalued compared to their contracts. Similar to MacK. If I was an NHL player, I'd be pissed if I was a top 5 player in the league by arguably 0.5x as McDavid was this year compared to his peers and only making marginally more money than the second/third highest-paid contracts. I'd be even more pissed if I was MacK, putting up NHL record playoff point numbers and 90 point seasons on a presidents trophy team and making less money than Sean f***ing Monahan.
 

nobody

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@nobody @Mats13 we are ALL speculating on what may happen in 3,4 or 5 years down the road. Yet I get called delusional for merely saying there is a possibility Matthews chooses to sign for his hometown team as a UFA. Your reasons he would not do such a thing are pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Maybe everything works perfectly for Matthews and the Leafs and you go on a dynasty run winning multiple cups and Matthews is anointed as the greatest Leaf of all time. Or maybe the Habs knock off the Leafs in the first round this playoff and the Leaf board bursts in flames. Or something in between.

The fact he likes playing in Toronto on a good team

You criticize the Coyotes and I understand that. Well deserved. But things change. Covid aside, the new owner has $$$. We dont know what the team will be in 3 years. Maybe they are a contender themselves and the missing piece is a bonafide, homegrown élite #1 C.

As for nice cities, I am not suggesting a star player would leave the centre of the hockey universe for Winnipeg. Apparently a lot of people do like living in Phoenix though.
Fair points. As a hockey fan, if we let Matthews walk and he goes home to play for a good Coyotes franchise, I'd be pissed but I'd understand.

Auston loves Phoenix and so do a ton of other players as many of them have been training there for the past few summers (atleast for portions of their summers). If they can hire competent management and keep their coaches and current star players, I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance of Matty leaving.
 

Golden_Jet

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They bought 2 or 3 years of UFA from him. Matthews knew his value and he asked for it. His contract isn't really that inflated. McDavid and Draisaitl (especially Drai) took very team-friendly deals and are severely undervalued compared to their contracts. Similar to MacK. If I was an NHL player, I'd be pissed if I was a top 5 player in the league by arguably 0.5x as McDavid was this year compared to his peers and only making marginally more money than the second/third highest-paid contracts. I'd be even more pissed if I was MacK, putting up NHL record playoff point numbers and 90 point seasons on a presidents trophy team and making less money than Sean f***ing Monahan.

I guess 1 year of UFA, as 7 years in league gets UFA
3 year ELC plus 4 years of second deal
 
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Mats13

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@nobody @Mats13 we are ALL speculating on what may happen in 3,4 or 5 years down the road. Yet I get called delusional for merely saying there is a possibility Matthews chooses to sign for his hometown team as a UFA. Your reasons he would not do such a thing are pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Maybe everything works perfectly for Matthews and the Leafs and you go on a dynasty run winning multiple cups and Matthews is anointed as the greatest Leaf of all time. Or maybe the Habs knock off the Leafs in the first round this playoff and the Leaf board bursts in flames. Or something in between.

The fact he likes playing in Toronto on a good team

You criticize the Coyotes and I understand that. Well deserved. But things change. Covid aside, the new owner has $$$. We dont know what the team will be in 3 years. Maybe they are a contender themselves and the missing piece is a bonafide, homegrown élite #1 C.

As for nice cities, I am not suggesting a star player would leave the centre of the hockey universe for Winnipeg. Apparently a lot of people do like living in Phoenix though.

I have just one question

When was the last time a star player left a good team in the NHL?

Tavares is the last star to leave and the Isles sucked for a decade before that.

In the NHL, stars don’t leave good teams. It just doesn’t happen. If the Leafs sucked then ya maybe he would consider leaving. But it just isn’t going to happen.

NHL history and everything Matthews has said and done suggest he’s staying in Toronto.

There’s no basis to think he’s leaving. I’ve already explained why the term is 5 years in another post.

Matthews is the kind of guy that loves the spotlight and loves being the best. That’s what he wants. Where could he possibly get more of that than in Toronto?
 

nobody

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I guess 1 year of UFA, as 7 years in league gets UFA
3 year ELC plus 4 years of second deal

I thought it was 3+2. If it's 3+4 then yea.

In either case, though, the kid was 4 goals shy of a rocket as a rookie while still hitting 40 goals. He's been a PPG player since his 2nd NHL season. He's been a 5 on 5 monsters while scoring goals at pace or better than Ovi. He's worth every last penny of that contract. I never had an issue with Matthews getting his money because you could see after his 2nd year that he was going to be arguable a top 2 player in the league down the line. The contract that really worried me was Mitch Marner's. He wanted Auston money while not being as good as Auston at the time but we got really lucky because he's been an absolute monster for us.

I honestly feel bad for Draisaitl. Being the 2nd best point scorer in the league, Hart winner and 1.5 ppg last 2 seasons all while playing for a tirefire franchise and getting paid $8-$8.5? mil. That's tragic.
 

nobody

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I have just one question

When was the last time a star player left a good team in the NHL?

Tavares is the last star to leave and the Isles sucked for a decade before that.

In the NHL, stars don’t leave good teams. It just doesn’t happen. If the Leafs sucked then ya maybe he would consider leaving. But it just isn’t going to happen.

NHL history and everything Matthews has said and done suggest he’s staying in Toronto.

There’s no basis to think he’s leaving. I’ve already explained why the term is 5 years in another post.

Matthews is the kind of guy that loves the spotlight and loves being the best. That’s what he wants. Where could he possibly get more of that than in Toronto?

Panarin. Arguably Bob (2 Vezinas). Both left for money though.
 

nobody

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If the Oilers management was smart, they would lock down old man Ovi for a few years. Pay him whatever he wants and let him provide the leadership and stability up top. He also provides a solid 40 goal option for the next few seasons too. Would make McDrai's life easier. IMO much better investment than RNH.
 

McFlash97

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If the Oilers management was smart, they would lock down old man Ovi for a few years. Pay him whatever he wants and let him provide the leadership and stability up top. He also provides a solid 40 goal option for the next few seasons too. Would make McDrai's life easier. IMO much better investment than RNH.

RNH isn't on Edmontons radar after these playoffs bro. That's a moot point. Unless Holland goes full Chiarelli.
 
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nobody

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Are they planning on extending Barrie?

Or did they see playoff Barrie and change their mind?

I think both the Oilers and Leafs fans are mutually hoping that the Canucks take the hit for the next big Barrie contract. Jimbo is gonna make a splash in UFA.
 

Heldig

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I have just one question

When was the last time a star player left a good team in the NHL?

Tavares is the last star to leave and the Isles sucked for a decade before that.

In the NHL, stars don’t leave good teams. It just doesn’t happen. If the Leafs sucked then ya maybe he would consider leaving. But it just isn’t going to happen.

NHL history and everything Matthews has said and done suggest he’s staying in Toronto.

There’s no basis to think he’s leaving. I’ve already explained why the term is 5 years in another post.

Matthews is the kind of guy that loves the spotlight and loves being the best. That’s what he wants. Where could he possibly get more of that than in Toronto?

When was the last time a star player left a good team in the NHL?
Other than Tavares? JVR the same year left the Leafs. Stastny left he Jets. How about Panarin? Bobrosvky? I am sure it happens almost every year, to various degrees. Chara left the Bruins this year (though I guess Chara was no longer a star).

Tavares is the last star to leave and the Isles sucked for a decade before that.
They had not sucked for the previous decade. They had back to back 100 point seasons just 2 years prior.

In the NHL, stars don’t leave good teams. It just doesn’t happen. If the Leafs sucked then ya maybe he would consider leaving. But it just isn’t going to happen.
I guess it is rare. Certainly for a Matthews caliber of player. Only one that spring to mind was Teemu Selanne bolting from Colorado back to Anaheim.

NHL history and everything Matthews has said and done suggest he’s staying in Toronto.
Agree to disagree.

There’s no basis to think he’s leaving. I’ve already explained why the term is 5 years in another post.
I have given a basis for why he could leave as a UFA.

Matthews is the kind of guy that loves the spotlight and loves being the best. That’s what he wants. Where could he possibly get more of that than in Toronto?
More? New York Rangers and LA Kings. Also, there is a massive opportunity in Arizona should he choose to sign there.
 

Dache

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He's worth 2 first liners. In a team that is in cap hell and forward rich this is a workable deal. Lots of teams are about to let people go because of cap issues. Matthews and Tavares for McDavid makes a ton of sense. It frees up leaf's cap space, and the oilers can trade Matthews for an entire line with phoenix.

That being said Tampa etc would be the better choice. If McDavid was in a desirable city on a contender team, you'd have easy access to cheap ufas.
What is this? Just nonsense
 

Dache

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They bought 2 or 3 years of UFA from him. Matthews knew his value and he asked for it. His contract isn't really that inflated. McDavid and Draisaitl (especially Drai) took very team-friendly deals and are severely undervalued compared to their contracts. Similar to MacK. If I was an NHL player, I'd be pissed if I was a top 5 player in the league by arguably 0.5x as McDavid was this year compared to his peers and only making marginally more money than the second/third highest-paid contracts. I'd be even more pissed if I was MacK, putting up NHL record playoff point numbers and 90 point seasons on a presidents trophy team and making less money than Sean f***ing Monahan.
It was one UFA year I believe
 

Dache

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Alright so what's McDavid worth than?

If you wanted to win tonights game, what would you trade from elsewhere to give up McDavid?
More than Matthews and Tavares. That type of cap hit cannot be moved, and if McDavid is traded I would bet my life it won’t be to add salary, and for sure not with that added salary being Tavares.
 
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