Canadian Division (Canada Cup) Part XI

[Sting]

The Sens have a lot of talent and upside; but the east is going to be ridiculously tough next year.

Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston, Islanders, Toronto, Carolina, Florida, Tampa are all likely to qualify for the playoffs next year. Thats 8 spots right there.

Then you've got teams like Montreal, Rangers, and Philly who still probably a good chunk better than Ottawa. Ottawa should be better than Buffalo, New Jersey, Detroit and maybe Columbus.... but they're going to have a really tough time supplanting some of those tier-2 teams.

We had 2 "mixed" divsions this year (the north and the central). The North was won by Toronto. The Central had 3 eastern teams basically run away with it.


Don't get me wrong... the sens have a literal ton of upside in that's already on the team -- Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson, Stutzle, Pinto, Formenton, Chabot, Brannstrom, Mete... a couple of young, seemingly ideal middle-of-the-lineup studs in White & Paul...

But they've got no idea what they have in goal, and a really suspect D.

I think you underestimate the Sens lineup that started the year vs the one that ended it. I wouldn't call their D that suspect anymore - Zub is a legit top 4 RD, Zaitsev played like a top 4 RD for most of the year, and JBD is going to be a good one.

I also think the Sens have found their actual starting goalie in Gustavsson, but I do worry they're going to play Murray to justify handing out that contract.

Ottawa next year should in theory be able to compete with the likes of NYR, Philly, and the Islanders. My guess is one of the surefire playoff teams also takes a step back. We'll see - I think at the very least, they're knocking at the door next year for sure.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

And it's even worse: it was an automatic 5 minute major back then when there's blood. So you're talking about a 3-2 series lead and a 5 minute major at the end of a tied elimination game with the greatest player in the game removed from play. That's as close as you're ever going to get to a guaranteed series victory. And guess who scored the OT winner to send it to Game 7?

Leafs got robbed. People that don't understand it mock it but it was worse than what happened to Buffalo and even Calgary (since in their case at least it was likely the ref didn't see the goal).

Yup. Best player in history off the ice and a 5 minute PP at the end of the game. Been a while but if memory serves he scored the winner in the timeframe he was supposed to be off the ice?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Lmao. seriously? because of a missed call?

It absolutely should be mocked. Missed calls happen all the time.

Missing a call is way less worse than making a wrong call (see: Vegas vs Sharks 5 min to Eakins).

He was looking right at it. He just didn't call it. In a season where that was an automatic 5. It's ridiculous. In fact it is a wrong call.

Go back and watch Wayne after he does it. He knows he's pooched.

 

[hoglund]

Sens end up going 9-2-1 to end the season. End up with the third best record in the North since mid February. The first month and half of the season killed the Sens.

The Sens have shown that they are far better than their record. Either the North division is the best division in the league or has the most parity because Vancouver is the only weak team in the division and have a legitimate excuse because of their covid breakout.

 

[Wats]

And it's even worse: it was an automatic 5 minute major back then when there's blood. So you're talking about a 3-2 series lead and a 5 minute major at the end of a tied elimination game with the greatest player in the game removed from play. That's as close as you're ever going to get to a guaranteed series victory. And guess who scored the OT winner to send it to Game 7?

Leafs got robbed. People that don't understand it mock it but it was worse than what happened to Buffalo and even Calgary (since in their case at least it was likely the ref didn't see the goal).

Definitely something worthy of being mocked. Missed penalty calls in the semi finals are no way worse missed goals for a cup win. If they can't get past a mere missed penalty call, they never deserved to be in finals. Gilmour played rest of that game and in game 7, there wasn't any major injuries causing roster harm.

The outrage is as if the Leafs never been benefactors of missed calls...the likelihood is it happened same game.

 

[Bouboumaster]

That would be a *COVID Cup* of epic proportions.

Covid Cup?

 

[NyQuil]

I really don't get the Kerry Fraser thing.

Toronto still could have won in OT and still could have won in Game 7.

If the call had been given, LA could have killed it off. If Gretzky hadn't scored, someone else on LA could have.

It didn't cost them the game or the series.

It's a lot made of nothing.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Definitely something worthy of being mocked. Missed penalty calls in the semi finals are no way worse missed goals for a cup win. If they can't get past a mere missed penalty call, they never deserved to be in finals. Gilmour played rest of that game and in game 7, there wasn't any major injuries causing roster harm.

The outrage is as if the Leafs never been benefactors of missed calls...the likelihood is it happened same game.

A couple of people don't seem to get the point: A purposeful missed call vs. a genuine missed call are an order of magnitude in difference.

 

[Wats]

A couple of people don't seem to get the point: A purposeful missed call vs. a genuine missed call are an order of magnitude in difference.

So essentially it's not the fact it's a missed call but a conspiracy that Fraser and people behind the scenes tried to make the Leafs lose to make Kings go to Finals.

Feel like something like that is more worthy of being mocked personally but that's not to say people can't feel that way. Can be fun.

 

[hoglund]

I really don't get the Kerry Fraser thing.

Toronto still could have won in OT and still could have won in Game 7.

If the call had been given, LA could have killed it off. If Gretzky hadn't scored, someone else on LA could have.

It didn't cost them the game or the series.

It's a lot made of nothing.

If you remember back then a high stick with blood was a 5 minute penalty and a game misconduct so Gretzky scored the winner and should not have been even on the ice also the Leafs power play was great and in 5 minutes would likely have scored a few. Fraser said that he was wrong for not calling it, unfortunately for the Leafs he said it 23 years too late.

 

[NyQuil]

If you remember back then a high stick with blood was a 5 minute penalty and a game misconduct so Gretzky scored the winner and should not have been even on the ice also the Leafs power play was great and in 5 minutes would likely have scored a few.

I'm still seeing hypothetical outcomes here. Nothing was actually taken away.

 

[hoglund]

I'm still seeing hypothetical outcomes here. Nothing was actually taken away.

Chances were taken away, these chances likely were wins for the Leafs.

 

[NyQuil]

Chances were taken away, these chances likely were wins for the Leafs.

Again, hypotheticals.

Toronto wasn't even eliminated in Game 6. They had a whole other kick at the can in Game 7.

For the biggest controversy in Leafs history, it's not particularly compelling.

Basically it comes down to "Gretzky should have been taken off, and if that had happened, Toronto might have scored on the PP and might have won the game, or maybe they wouldn't have, and LA would have won anyway."

These kinds of calls happen all the time in the playoffs.

In 2003, Marian Hossa was hauled down late in the 3rd with no call, only to have Jeff Friesen score with 2 minutes left and eliminate the Sens in Game 7.

You don't hear about it, because it hasn't been blown up into this larger-than-life criminal conspiracy.

And even so, is it a guarantee that Ottawa would have scored on the PP? Of course not. Maybe the Devils would have killed it off or scored SHed. Maybe it would have gone to OT tied and New Jersey would have won anyway.

I'm not a fan of people being conclusive about hypothetical scenarios.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Again, hypotheticals.

Toronto wasn't even eliminated in Game 6. They had a whole other kick at the can in Game 7.

For the biggest controversy in Leafs history, it's not particularly compelling.

I really don't get this reasoning. The Bartman game for the Cubs was in Game 6. The Bill Buckner game for the Red Sox was Game 6. They both had chances to win in Game 7 as well but it didn't make those games any less memorable or iconic.

Do you also wonder why the Miracle on Ice was such a big deal when they still had another game to play for the Gold?

 

[NyQuil]

I really don't get this reasoning. The Bartman game for the Cubs was in Game 6. The Bill Buckner game for the Red Sox was Game 6. They both had chances to win in Game 7 as well but it didn't make those games any less memorable or iconic.

The point is that it wasn't like Hull's foot in the crease where they went off the ice with the Cup in their hands immediately afterwards.

Do you also wonder why the Miracle on Ice was such a big deal when they still had another game to play for the Gold?

It wouldn't have been as big a deal if they had to go out and play the Soviets again and lost.

As it was, they played a completely different and much less competitive and politically important opponent in Finland.

I'm not sure how these situations are comparable.

Toronto had another game against the same team.

People would have forgotten all about this play if Toronto had finished their business, just as the Miracle wouldn't have been as miraculous today if the Soviets had wiped the floor with them in the next game.

 

[Oilslick941611]

It's not even that. The Sens badly outplayed Edmonton in a few of those games, but got sunk by bad goaltending.

What killed the Sens was the start of the season.

Edmonton played Stuart Skinner who at the time never played in the AHL or NHL and was only on the team because he was in Edmonton and could play over a call up from AHL that had to quarantine before joining the team and still lost that game. There was bad goaltending on all sides in the series. It wasn't until March when Edmonton really took control and dominated them on the score board. Boiling the games down to bad goaltending is a false narrative on what happened. Theres no doubt as the season wore on Ottawa played Edmonton tighter. However they couldn't score, thats why they lost, no other reason, I mean look at the S% of the Edmonton goalies, You have numbers like .929 (03/08/21) .955 (03/10/21) .920 (03/12/21) .933 (04/07/21) .975 (04/08/21) and yeah Ottawas was bad in the high .80's Ottawa has played well against the rest of the division and certainly if not for that almost historically bad start probably deserves to be in the playoffs over Montreal. Edmonton just had their number, its not like Edmonton wasn't scoring against other teams, McDavid almost matched his totals against the Sens against the Jets and Canucks. Ottawa just couldn't score.

I definetly don't see Ottawa as a bad team, they are better than the Canucks, Flames and I think Montreal and will likely finish ahead of all 3 of those team if they can improve like they did as the season went on.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So essentially it's not the fact it's a missed call but a conspiracy that Fraser and people behind the scenes tried to make the Leafs lose to make Kings go to Finals.

Feel like something like that is more worthy of being mocked personally but that's not to say people can't feel that way. Can be fun.

No, I never said any of that. Talk about mock-worthy.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Definitely something worthy of being mocked. Missed penalty calls in the semi finals are no way worse missed goals for a cup win. If they can't get past a mere missed penalty call, they never deserved to be in finals. Gilmour played rest of that game and in game 7, there wasn't any major injuries causing roster harm.

The outrage is as if the Leafs never been benefactors of missed calls...the likelihood is it happened same game.

What difference does it make if there was a major injury? It's an automatic call.

Hey in game 3 (one of the other Kings wins) they saw fit to kick Toronto's 54 goal scorer out of the game because of a high stick. Not Wayne though. Not even the automatic 5.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So essentially it's not the fact it's a missed call but a conspiracy that Fraser and people behind the scenes tried to make the Leafs lose to make Kings go to Finals.

Feel like something like that is more worthy of being mocked personally but that's not to say people can't feel that way. Can be fun.

You understand you'd be mocking yourself because it isn't being called a conspiracy by the folks you are responding to, yes?

 

[Wats]

You understand you'd be mocking yourself because it isn't being called a conspiracy by the folks you are responding to, yes?

The guy I'm responding to literally says, "a purposeful missed call". What do you call an unproven theory that a ref purposely missed a call?

 

[Wats]

What difference does it make if there was a major injury? It's an automatic call.

Hey in game 3 (one of the other Kings wins) they saw fit to kick Toronto's 54 goal scorer out of the game because of a high stick. Not Wayne though. Not even the automatic 5.

Difference is Leafs have their entire team still. If they were actually good enough to win that series, a missed call would not have not impacted them this much. Tied game in game 6 + an entire game 7.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The guy I'm responding to literally says, "a purposeful missed call". What do you call an unproven theory that a ref purposely missed a call?

Exactly that, an unproven theory. A conspiracy would imply it is being done for some other malicious or ulterior motive. Stars being treated differently isn't a conspiracy.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Difference is Leafs have their entire team still. If they were actually good enough to win that series, a missed call would not have not impacted them this much. Tied game in game 6 + an entire game 7.

So unless someone is injured really next to no calls matter.

 

[Wats]

So unless someone is injured really next to no calls matter.

Can't agree for it to be something mattering enough to be complained about for almost 30 years.

 

[Wats]

Exactly that, an unproven theory. A conspiracy would imply it is being done for some other malicious or ulterior motive. Stars being treated differently isn't a conspiracy.

So basically, you want people to sit and accept that the ref saw the penalty on future hall of famer Gilmour but he purposely didn't call it because it's Wayne. So had it been anyone one else he'd have called a penalty? And supposedly this isn't a conspiracy theory because everyone should know stars are treated differently?

I mean you guys are free to think whatever but at the same time rest of the people are free to mock it.