Canada's pandemic prep part 2 [MOD Note in Post #327]

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DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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Canadian Armed Forces submitted a report to Ontario gov't re:LTC homes. I think people need to be more aware of this situation. What happened here lately and what's been going on previously is sickening. Personally, I think most just don't care. Its up to gov't to enforce regulations on these facilities.

 

Zetterberg4Captain

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As someone with intimate knowledge of the state of Ontario's LTC homes I can assure you this was decades in the making.

-Poorly regulated industry
-Underfunded, underappreciated, underpaid and undertrained staff have led few Canadians to choose this career path requiring outside Canada help that often times lack the appropriate skills and awareness(thus taken advantage of)
-Old and shoddy buildings that are owned mostly by private companies unwilling to invest money to improve infection control
- Decades of poor decision-making and poor-planning by the same people now occupying these homes to not foresee the rising population of seniors requiring care
-A societal reluctance to allow anyone to die with dignity as its seen as a failure of the healthcare system, often means spending ridiculous amounts of money simply to delay slightly the inevitable truth

This situation is not a result of Covid but rather a symptom of prolonged and systemic system and societal failures
 

TaLoN

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"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period." Ouch.

Opinion: We are infectious disease experts. It’s time to lift the COVID-19 lockdowns
From the article you linked...
In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period. In other countries where data are available, 0.6-2.6 per cent of deaths in people below age 65 have occurred in people without known underlying health conditions.
Please don't misrepresent data. It may be currently lower in Canada, but that doesn't mean it will remain lower as the number infected goes up. You still need to be vigilant with social distancing.

Yes, open up a bit... find the right balance between society being functional AND safe.
 
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DuklaNation

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From the article you linked...

Please don't misrepresent data. It may be currently lower in Canada, but that doesn't mean it will remain lower as the number infected goes up. You still need to be vigilant with social distancing.

Yes, open up a bit... find the right balance between society being functional AND safe.
This is a Canadian thread. Fact is, the mortality below 65 has been ultra low here. Why? Hard to say but the obvious reason is the data around the world is inconsistent or unreliable. Is this an outlier? Maybe. But if you've worked in insurance, certainly 2.5 months is plenty of data over almost 40 million population to form preliminary conclusions. Nations need to make their own decisions while considering other results but we cannot verify their data, probably ever.
 

I am toxic

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From the article you linked...

Please don't misrepresent data. It may be currently lower in Canada, but that doesn't mean it will remain lower as the number infected goes up. You still need to be vigilant with social distancing.

Yes, open up a bit... find the right balance between society being functional AND safe.


Apparently CPA's are not infectious disease experts.
 

DuklaNation

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Apparently CPA's are not infectious disease experts.
I'm just quoting an article. Isn't this about sharing opinions? And yes, I am not an infectious disease expert but I would be considered an "expert" in other areas. And what a meaningless term that has become throughout this crisis.
 

LPHabsFan

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Statistics are only valid if the underlying data is accurate. We know that it's not. The way that both deaths and cases are calculated varies not just from country to country but also province to province. That's not to say there is necessarily nefarious reasons for the difference however when you're trying to compare two things, you can't compare apples to oranges. That's what comparing most of the situations across the world is like when talking about Covid-19.
 

TaLoN

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This is a Canadian thread. Fact is, the mortality below 65 has been ultra low here. Why? Hard to say but the obvious reason is the data around the world is inconsistent or unreliable. Is this an outlier? Maybe. But if you've worked in insurance, certainly 2.5 months is plenty of data over almost 40 million population to form preliminary conclusions. Nations need to make their own decisions while considering other results but we cannot verify their data, probably ever.
Yes, a Canadian thread, but you still misrepresented the data in the article. They provided both sets of data, you chose a set that would fit your agenda instead of providing both and letting the reader decide.

And no... 2.5 months is not enough time to understand the scope. It will probably take several years to figure all of this out. You can't understand morality rates of a virus over such a short time period unless it's a very small and minor outbreak, which this definitely is NOT.
 

dukeofjive

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My kids are starting school again june 1st, the province gives the choice to parents to choose to keep on homeschooling or sending them back, my kids need to get out of the house , there slowly going coo coo.
 

DuklaNation

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And no... 2.5 months is not enough time to understand the scope. .

Statistically, you cannot support this statement. Certainly, you can make preliminary conclusions on the impact based on age. And, we're getting into the area where I would be considered an expert just like these jokers on TV.
 

powerstuck

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Statistically, you cannot support this statement. Certainly, you can make preliminary conclusions on the impact based on age. And, we're getting into the area where I would be considered an expert just like these jokers on TV.

While they may only be 200 or so deaths under age of 60 (even tho you used 65) the number of cases are still affecting most those aged 20 to 59.

I guess getting sick isn't enough, you gotta die to count in severity.

Demographic characteristics of COVID-19 cases reported in Canada as of 27 May
Age (in years) Median 51
Range 0-112
Age groups
≤ 19 5 411 (6%)
20-39 22 389 (26%)
40-59 26 530 (31%)
60-79 15 415 (18%)
80+ 16 324 (19%)

Deceased Age groups
≤ 19 0 0%
20-39 19 (<1%)
40-59 184 (3%)
60-79 1,629 (25%)
80+ 4 671 (72%)

Source
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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While they may only be 200 or so deaths under age of 60 (even tho you used 65) the number of cases are still affecting most those aged 20 to 59.

I guess getting sick isn't enough, you gotta die to count in severity.

Demographic characteristics of COVID-19 cases reported in Canada as of 27 May
Age (in years) Median 51
Range 0-112
Age groups
≤ 19 5 411 (6%)
20-39 22 389 (26%)
40-59 26 530 (31%)
60-79 15 415 (18%)
80+ 16 324 (19%)

Deceased Age groups
≤ 19 0 0%
20-39 19 (<1%)
40-59 184 (3%)
60-79 1,629 (25%)
80+ 4 671 (72%)

Source


honest question, what would you suggest we do instead based on the current data available to us both from within Canada and abroad?
 

Pilky01

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My kids are starting school again june 1st, the province gives the choice to parents to choose to keep on homeschooling or sending them back, my kids need to get out of the house , there slowly going coo coo.

In Quebec?

That list I saw of rules that would be in place seemed so absurd as to defeat the purpose of school entirely.
 
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powerstuck

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honest question, what would you suggest we do instead based on the current data available to us both from within Canada and abroad?

Honest answer : Be more coherent. I am a diabetic, I don't feel in danger due to Covid. I do take precautions I took less before, wash my hands more often, touch less stuff while shopping, don't go left and right just due to boredom.

My government (Quebec) says that employers must encourage work from home when that's possible. I was able to do everything I do daily as my work from home between March 16th and May 22nd. Since May 25th I am back to work. I can't speak to closely to my co-workers, I can't take breaks with them but I gotta work. As a hockey fan I can't enjoy my favorite sport, can't even practice it.

So, I can do all the things the government (which is btw my employer) asks me to, but I can't do none of the stuff I want to. So, honest answer, we either just release everything and go back to normal life, or we keep the measures in place until we understand a bit better this new virus.

In Quebec?

That list I saw of rules that would be in place seemed so absurd as to defeat the purpose of school entirely.

Schools in Quebec, except Montreal area, opened on May 11th.
 

TaLoN

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Statistically, you cannot support this statement. Certainly, you can make preliminary conclusions on the impact based on age. And, we're getting into the area where I would be considered an expert just like these jokers on TV.
preliminary conclusions are just that... preliminary. That means there is a lot of learning to do and it will be years before the full scope is truly understood.
 

DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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Share away. Just don't cry when you are told what you are sharing is garbage.
ANd how is it garbage exactly? You think you cannot make judgments based on age demographics with the evidence presented so far? On what basis? Could you show deviation in age demographic experience across various nations? Accounting for exceptions in medical prognosis? You wouldn't even know what garbage actually is.
 

DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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# of new cases in Canada are steadily dropping which is great news. Of course, most of these are in 2 provinces only. But its good to see improvement finally.
 

Mickey Marner

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"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period." Ouch.

Opinion: We are infectious disease experts. It’s time to lift the COVID-19 lockdowns

Much ado about nothing.

I've already lost all of the money I'm going to lose from this pandemic, so if the populace wants me to sit at home and wax my carrot, I'll sit at home and wax my carrot. But that isn't a tacit admission that they were right. But rather, they were stupid and I was smart enough to financially posture in anticipation of their stupidity. And if my job doesn't exist upon my return, I'll go back to school for a public sector job on the taxpayer's dime.
 
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