Canada thread part V for Vaccines!

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discostu

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An Ontario cabinet meeting is happening right now where they're apparently looking at modelling data, and are expected to announce more measures by tomorrow it sounds like.

Unless Ford is willing to address some of the long standing measures that he's passed on (sick leave, shutting construction, curfew), I'm not sure what further can be done. There's a very good chance that he just announces another made up status word with no actual changes.
 
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Blender

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An Ontario cabinet meeting is happening right now where they're apparently looking at modelling data, and are expected to announce more measures by tomorrow it sounds like.

Unless Ford is willing to address some of the long standing measures that he's passed on (sick leave, shutting construction, curfew), I'm not sure what further can be done. There's a very good chance that he just announces another made up status word with no actual changes.
Sick leave is the only thing that would make a difference of those three things. Curfews and construction shut down won't have much impact besides to harm people already hurting economically. They need to implement stricter safety measures for essential workplaces, prioritize vaccinating them (i.e. showing up to a workplace and vaccinating everyone there on a day), and bring the hammer down hard on any business caught violating the new measures to send a message. Enforcement has been a joke so far, like a $1000 fine for a factory with a massive outbreak.
 

discostu

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Sick leave is the only thing that would make a difference of those three things. Curfews and construction shut down won't have much impact besides to harm people already hurting economically. They need to implement stricter safety measures for essential workplaces, prioritize vaccinating them (i.e. showing up to a workplace and vaccinating everyone there on a day), and bring the hammer down hard on any business caught violating the new measures to send a message. Enforcement has been a joke so far, like a $1000 fine for a factory with a massive outbreak.

My issue with a sick leave program is that it's probably too late. A competent government would need at least a week or two to put a program in place. Who knows how this government would do.

It should have been done months ago, and at this stage, only these severe quick solutions (like a curfew or shutting more things down) are left as an option.

We'll see what they do. It's hard to have any confidence in any meaningful action.
 

stealth1

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An Ontario cabinet meeting is happening right now where they're apparently looking at modelling data, and are expected to announce more measures by tomorrow it sounds like.

Unless Ford is willing to address some of the long standing measures that he's passed on (sick leave, shutting construction, curfew), I'm not sure what further can be done. There's a very good chance that he just announces another made up status word with no actual changes.
While I agree with you, the problem since the beginning is they have tried to please everyone. That never works. The lockdown we are in now should have happened at the beginning as well as enforcement. All those people that were out protesting in Niagara last weekend should have all been charged for not social distancing and having a group of over 5.
 

TheTotalPackage

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While I agree with you, the problem since the beginning is they have tried to please everyone. That never works. The lockdown we are in now should have happened at the beginning as well as enforcement. All those people that were out protesting in Niagara last weekend should have all been charged for not social distancing and having a group of over 5.

The same should apply to those people who have been protesting at Nathan Phillips Square. Or kids and their parents meeting and playing at a playground. Etc.
 

Blender

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My issue with a sick leave program is that it's probably too late. A competent government would need at least a week or two to put a program in place. Who knows how this government would do.

It should have been done months ago, and at this stage, only these severe quick solutions (like a curfew or shutting more things down) are left as an option.

We'll see what they do. It's hard to have any confidence in any meaningful action.
This current wave was kicked off by essential workplaces and schools. Schools have been shut down, and unless they plan on shutting down essential workplaces, a curfew will do nothing.
 
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stealth1

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This current wave was kicked off by essential workplaces and schools. Schools have been shut down, and unless they plan on shutting down essential workplaces, a curfew will do nothing.
The only way to change things is to get people vaccinated. It's time to switch from age groups now and to people who work in high risk areas.
 
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4thline

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An Ontario cabinet meeting is happening right now where they're apparently looking at modelling data, and are expected to announce more measures by tomorrow it sounds like.

Unless Ford is willing to address some of the long standing measures that he's passed on (sick leave, shutting construction, curfew), I'm not sure what further can be done. There's a very good chance that he just announces another made up status word with no actual changes.

I think they need to acknowledge that just because ironclad enforcement is not feasible, passing a ban/restriction is not useless.
Passing something and putting a major penalty with *some* kind of enforcement measure is going to be a hell of a lot more effective than
"well gee we can't put roadblocks everywhere so we can't do a travel ban, please listen to my requests folks"
I don't see a squad car/ radar trap on every corner, do we still have speeding laws?
 
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HabsAddict

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Logistics aren't going to get better if they start running around for "social and racial" targets and retargeting and spinning around their tails to satisfy the "crisis" subgroup flavour of the day.

FFS...just jab as fast as they possibly can and don't worry about the garbage media latest screaming. It's a matter of weeks that the next group gets theirs so all this "targetting" is holding up vaccinations and wasting precious time and resources.
 
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Canadian Time

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With 3.5 million unused vaccines, I'd offer a third option, being logistics, as one if the bigger issues.

Don't know if you're on Twitter but Dr Bogoch has an excellent 8-10 part tweet explaining what's happening, it's not logistics.

In a small summary he said that Pfizer is coming in regularly like clockwork, those doses are sent to the mass vaccination sites and are pretty much used up by the end of each week. Moderna is much more sporadic arriving, these are slated to go to the pop up sites, etc. The arrival days keep changing.

He said that the largest bulk of the "doses in freezers" claim are the Astra Zeneca doses, they are hardly flying off the shelves in the 55+ age group, not many want that one. They come in large numbers and pretty much sit there. Hopefully that will change in the coming days as they open up more pharmacies and clinics with the AZ.

An anecdotal story, my buddy yesterday just walked into a Loblaws pharmacy, no appointment, nothing and got the shot on the spot. I really hope they can rescue the reputation of the AZ, there's lots out there.
 

HabsAddict

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The issue seems to be the supply, not the demand.

Politics. Trudeau is very vulnerable to vaccine blame so the minute the hit the tarmac....his government says....look how many we have.

Ford doesn't want to get blame so when a center runs out, he blames Trudeau.

Fact is, we are 6 weeks behind because if we had them earlier, we would of had herd immunity right about now.
 

HabsAddict

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Don't know if you're on Twitter but Dr Bogoch has an excellent 8-10 part tweet explaining what's happening, it's not logistics.

In a small summary he said that Pfizer is coming in regularly like clockwork, those doses are sent to the mass vaccination sites and are pretty much used up by the end of each week. Moderna is much more sporadic arriving, these are slated to go to the pop up sites, etc. The arrival days keep changing.

He said that the largest bulk of the "doses in freezers" claim are the Astra Zeneca doses, they are hardly flying off the shelves in the 55+ age group, not many want that one. They come in large numbers and pretty much sit there. Hopefully that will change in the coming days as they open up more pharmacies and clinics with the AZ.

An anecdotal story, my buddy yesterday just walked into a Loblaws pharmacy, no appointment, nothing and got the shot on the spot. I really hope they can rescue the reputation of the AZ, there's lots out there.
Further up i posted a picture of an almost empty vaccine center in Quebec. Too many people don't want the AZ so jab them to those who will take them. Meanwhile, start lowering the age on Pfizer/Moderna. It should be 50 plus now...
 

Here I Pageau Again

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Don't know if you're on Twitter but Dr Bogoch has an excellent 8-10 part tweet explaining what's happening, it's not logistics.

In a small summary he said that Pfizer is coming in regularly like clockwork, those doses are sent to the mass vaccination sites and are pretty much used up by the end of each week. Moderna is much more sporadic arriving, these are slated to go to the pop up sites, etc. The arrival days keep changing.

He said that the largest bulk of the "doses in freezers" claim are the Astra Zeneca doses, they are hardly flying off the shelves in the 55+ age group, not many want that one. They come in large numbers and pretty much sit there. Hopefully that will change in the coming days as they open up more pharmacies and clinics with the AZ.

An anecdotal story, my buddy yesterday just walked into a Loblaws pharmacy, no appointment, nothing and got the shot on the spot. I really hope they can rescue the reputation of the AZ, there's lots out there.

To be honest, with the AZ vaccine they should just give it out to whoever wants it. If people are rejecting doses when they arrive, they should open it up to anyone.

We definitely need to get certain populations vaccinated quickly but if they are denying immunizations, getting shots into ppl who want them is better than not doing it (imo anyways)
 

Fourier

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To be honest, with the AZ vaccine they should just give it out to whoever wants it. If people are rejecting doses when they arrive, they should open it up to anyone.

We definitely need to get certain populations vaccinated quickly but if they are denying immunizations, getting shots into ppl who want them is better than not doing it (imo anyways)
I agree. Give people the information they need to make an informed decision and let people choose for themsleves.
 

Canadian Time

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To be honest, with the AZ vaccine they should just give it out to whoever wants it. If people are rejecting doses when they arrive, they should open it up to anyone.

We definitely need to get certain populations vaccinated quickly but if they are denying immunizations, getting shots into ppl who want them is better than not doing it (imo anyways)

Oh I agree, we just need NACI (or is it Health Canada?) to remove the 55+ only restriction. Actually I think they will do that shortly, open it up to more age groups, maybe just not pre-menopausal women. They will still have the AZ hesitancy but they should be able to run through what they have.
 

Big Muddy

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Dec 15, 2019
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Don't know if you're on Twitter but Dr Bogoch has an excellent 8-10 part tweet explaining what's happening, it's not logistics.

In a small summary he said that Pfizer is coming in regularly like clockwork, those doses are sent to the mass vaccination sites and are pretty much used up by the end of each week. Moderna is much more sporadic arriving, these are slated to go to the pop up sites, etc. The arrival days keep changing.

He said that the largest bulk of the "doses in freezers" claim are the Astra Zeneca doses, they are hardly flying off the shelves in the 55+ age group, not many want that one. They come in large numbers and pretty much sit there. Hopefully that will change in the coming days as they open up more pharmacies and clinics with the AZ.

An anecdotal story, my buddy yesterday just walked into a Loblaws pharmacy, no appointment, nothing and got the shot on the spot. I really hope they can rescue the reputation of the AZ, there's lots out there.

I've seen that happen in the U.S. even when the priority criteria were in place. If you go in the morning to the vaccination site and get on a waiting list, then check back in mid afternoon, sometimes they will vaccinate you then. I guess they feel its better to use whatever remains of the supply while they can.
 

Marmoset

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Apr 4, 2015
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To be honest, with the AZ vaccine they should just give it out to whoever wants it. If people are rejecting doses when they arrive, they should open it up to anyone.

We definitely need to get certain populations vaccinated quickly but if they are denying immunizations, getting shots into ppl who want them is better than not doing it (imo anyways)

Many people who are eligible for the AZ vaccine under the current rules are also eligible for Pfizer/Moderna. If you have the choice why would you get AZ?

Based on the review, open up eligibility to more people and let everyone make the decision for themselves. The alternative is we throw out a bunch of AZ vaccines and delay the timeline for getting our country vaccinated by weeks if not months. This should be an easy decision.
 

discostu

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This is the forecast that triggered todays meetings.



These models are usually built on current trends without assumption of additional measures, so, I wonder if it takes into account the most recent measures, or makes any assumptions of reduction of spread via vaccines.

My hope was that even with aggressive variants, that we can get the R<1. If this is taking all that into account though, and we can still see that type of growth, then things are going to get bleak.
 

Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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This is the forecast that triggered todays meetings.



These models are usually built on current trends without assumption of additional measures, so, I wonder if it takes into account the most recent measures, or makes any assumptions of reduction of spread via vaccines.

My hope was that even with aggressive variants, that we can get the R<1. If this is taking all that into account though, and we can still see that type of growth, then things are going to get bleak.

Actually worse than I was expecting. :facepalm:
 

stealth1

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I'm not shocked at all. It's been almost 2 weeks since the lockdown started and cases aren't going down at all. Between Covid fatigue and the "freedom fighters" its just going to keep getting worse. Our vaccine rollout isn't helping much either.
 
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