Canada and USA Final

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Peter25

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wilka91 said:
It's growing, but slowly. Money is the key, and Russia's economy has to grow faster in order to give the hockey federation more money, build more rinks, get more kids to play hockey.

Who is taking care and funding money to Russian junior hockey these days? The government of local rich businessmen?
 

wilka91*

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12# Peter Bondra said:
And Slovakia has 42 rinks and 12,375 players. Imagine if we had 2500 rinks?

Note: It would be funny where we would put those 2500 rinks :lol

There would be a rink in every person's back yard. :lol:
 

Peter25

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12# Peter Bondra said:
And Slovakia has 42 rinks and 12,375 players. Imagine if we had 2500 rinks?

Note: It would be funny where we would put those 2500 rinks :lol

You would produce five Marian Hossas and ten Marian Gaboriks from every age group!

:yo:
 

wilka91*

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Peter25 said:
You would produce five Marian Hossas and ten Marian Gaboriks from every age group!

:yo:

What I'm really tired of hearing from Canadians is "we have more depth than any other country, we have more super scorers, more big defensemen, and so on" as if being good at hockey was a gene running in Canada's blood or something. :lol:

In reality it's all much more simple than that : more rinks + more players > more good players.
 

Peter25

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wilka91 said:
What I'm really tired of hearing from Canadians is "we have more depth than any other country, we have more super scorers, more big defensemen, and so on" as if being good at hockey was a gene running in Canada's blood or something. :lol:

In reality it's all much more simple than that : more rinks + more players > more good players.

Think about the sheer numbers:

Canada has over three times more hockey rinks and registered hockey players than all the European countries COMBINED! (Russia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, Latvia, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus, Denmark and Estonia).

Three times more!

I have to wonder how many quality players Europe would produce if they had the same hockey resources as Canada.
 

Le Golie

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wilka91 said:
Listen : there are 2,500 hockey rinks across Canada, 250 in Finland, 200 in Russia and in the Czech Republic.

There's 500,000 people playing hockey in Canada, 55,000 in the Czech Republic and 50,000 in Russia.

Conclusion : hockey is the only game Canada is good at, and that's because everyone plays hockey, and only hockey. I believe if hockey was number 1 in either the USA or Russia, Canada wouldn't have any chances against these 2.

Those stats are interesting but a bit misleading.

In other countries, if a kid is not particularly athletic there's no way he'd be in hockey. So the only kids in hockey are pretty decent athletes to begin with. Other countries really do have more established sports and better options for parents to put their kids in.

In Canada, there are thousands of kids playing that have no athletic ability whatsoever. Their parents just don't have many better options.

So I think if other countries had the same amount of rinks and players you'd see roughly the same powerhouses as Canada, it's just that other countries would have the depth Canada has now.

Basically what it comes down to is - how many world class talented human beings can live in one geographic area.
 

Peter25

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Don_Cherry said:
Those stats are interesting but a bit misleading.

In other countries, if a kid is not particularly athletic there's no way he'd be in hockey. So the only kids in hockey are pretty decent athletes to begin with. Other countries really do have more established sports and better options for parents to put their kids in.

In Canada, there are thousands of kids playing that have no athletic ability whatsoever. Their parents just don't have many better options.

So I think if other countries had the same amount of rinks and players you'd see roughly the same powerhouses as Canada, it's just that other countries would have the depth Canada has now.

Basically what it comes down to is - how many world class talented human beings can live in one geographic area.


You didn´t consider one thing:

In Canada hockey takes most of the best athletes. In Canada a talented athlete chooces hockey more likely than in Russia for example. In Russia hockey has so much competition (soccer, basketball, volleyball etc.) and the best athletes are not that likely to chooce hockey.

This an enormous edge for Canada IMO.
 

e-e

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wilka91 said:
Conclusion : hockey is the only game Canada is good at, and that's because everyone plays hockey, and only hockey.

you might be suprised but i read statistics (have no link to prove it) and there are more golf players then hockey players in canada...my jaw dropped too :eek:
 

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Canadian_man said:
Because one of the prospects is Canadian. Just ask Bob and Pierre.


As for the unrelated argument, I was reading THN's "Gretest Debates" issue today and noticed one of the topics was "What is the greatets hockey nation?".

If I remember corecctly, it went like this:

0.02% say Finland is.
0.07% say the Czech Republic is.
2% say Russia is.
5% say the USA is.
89.6% say Canada is.

Pretty convincing I must say especially since THN isn't biased. In that exact same issue they said that "1972" is competely overhyped as it was a "pointless" tournament and that "Only one country cared".


Just my 2 cents.


I hope you are talking about juniors, cause at seniorlevel us Swedes still rocks the boat. We have the best center and winger in the world, and aside from those we have Lidstrom, the best defender in the world the past 5-6 years. Granted theyre getting old, but theyre still going strong.
 

Habs Icing

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wilka91 said:
Listen : there are 2,500 hockey rinks across Canada, 250 in Finland, 200 in Russia and in the Czech Republic.

There's 500,000 people playing hockey in Canada, 55,000 in the Czech Republic and 50,000 in Russia.

Conclusion : hockey is the only game Canada is good at, and that's because everyone plays hockey, and only hockey. I believe if hockey was number 1 in either the USA or Russia, Canada wouldn't have any chances against these 2.


Wilka, you're fudging your figures. There are more American kids playing hockey than Canadian. Hockey is not number one in Canada. North American football and soccer is just as popular. I've read somewhere that kids playing soccer will overtake hockey in a few years.

In those other countries hockey is streamed to elite athletes whereas in Canada it's a sport for everyone who can afford it.

You're claiming if this and if that, well let me join in your whining. if Canada had a population the size of Russia or the USA then we'd also produce elite players in all the other sports. If pigs could fly....
 

Macman

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The Canadian hockey system in recreation based. It is inclusive. Everyone plays and everyone is encouraged to play. The overwhelming majority have no hope in hell of ever being good, hence the 500,000 players and many rinks means little. It's a completely different system than say Russia, where talent is identified early and then nurtured. To say Russia would be way better than Canada if they had 500,000 players is silly. There are only 23 spots on any national team.
 

MOGiLNY

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Peter25 said:
You didn´t consider one thing:

In Canada hockey takes most of the best athletes. In Canada a talented athlete chooces hockey more likely than in Russia for example. In Russia hockey has so much competition (soccer, basketball, volleyball etc.) and the best athletes are not that likely to chooce hockey.

This an enormous edge for Canada IMO.

That's a great point, and I've never thought of that.

Believe it or not, I think soccer is actually the #1 sport in Russia, while hockey is 2nd.. But then they've also got tennis on the rise over there, and basketball has always been big as well.. oh, and both winter and summer olympics..

So yes, the athletes over there definitely spread out much more than they do in Canada, and all Canada has in sports other than hockey is 2 and a half baseball players, about the same in basketball, and the CFL..

To be fair though, Russia's population is about 5 times as big as that of Canada..
 

Rabid Ranger

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onice said:
Wilka, you're fudging your figures. There are more American kids playing hockey than Canadian. Hockey is not number one in Canada. North American football and soccer is just as popular. I've read somewhere that kids playing soccer will overtake hockey in a few years.

In those other countries hockey is streamed to elite athletes whereas in Canada it's a sport for everyone who can afford it.

You're claiming if this and if that, well let me join in your whining. if Canada had a population the size of Russia or the USA then we'd also produce elite players in all the other sports. If pigs could fly....


"North American football"? First time I've heard that.......
 

markov`

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I think a Canada/USA final would be much closer than Canada/Russia.

If Montoya is on his game it could be a really great game. On paper Canada beats USA but each year Canada has the best team and can't find the way to win.
 

markov`

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Hockey is better in Canada because this is where hockey is born. That's it. It's the game we love and every one in Canada has ever played hockey once.

The only sport we're good at? False.
The only sport we're very very good at? True. ;)
 

Hiishawk

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wilka91 said:
What I'm really tired of hearing from Canadians is "we have more depth than any other country, we have more super scorers, more big defensemen, and so on" as if being good at hockey was a gene running in Canada's blood or something. :lol:

In reality it's all much more simple than that : more rinks + more players > more good players.

Bingo- More rinks and players means more depth, more super scorers, more big defensemen. The second part of your "argument" confirms precisely what you were criticizing in the first half.

Yes folks. Canada emphasizes hockey more than any other nation. Does that somehow weaken the argument that Canada is (largely due to its intense hockey focus) the strongest hockey power? Whatever the reasons, it's pretty hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Of course mindless chest-beating and in-your-face boasts about it aren't going to endear Canadian hockey to anyone.
 

Rabid Ranger

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steblick said:
Bingo- More rinks and players means more depth, more super scorers, more big defensemen. The second part of your "argument" confirms precisely what you were criticizing in the first half.

Yes folks. Canada emphasizes hockey more than any other nation. Does that somehow weaken the argument that Canada is (largely due to its intense hockey focus) the strongest hockey power? Whatever the reasons, it's pretty hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Of course mindless chest-beating and in-your-face boasts about it aren't going to endear Canadian hockey to anyone.



Like this thread? http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=120892
 

Puckhead

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I hope you are talking about juniors, cause at seniorlevel us Swedes still rocks the boat. We have the best center and winger in the world, and aside from those we have Lidstrom, the best defender in the world the past 5-6 years. Granted theyre getting old, but theyre still going strong.
The problem is that the Swedes have lost a generation of young and skillful hockey players. For some reason they started teaching the trap and got away from the finesse game. Look at how they have played in this tournament, it's pathetic! Yes, they still have some very good players, but as a team they can't compete. They have to get back to basics and regain that hardworking mixed with skill style that made them a powerhouse for 15 years. As the Naslunds, Forsbergs, Sundiins, and Lidstroms get older, there aren't any real contenders to take over for them. I loved Swedish hockey, and I hope they can get it back, but it will take time. As it stands now, they are well behind their other European counterparts.

Russia
Finland
Czech
Slovakia
Sweden
Switzerland not far behind.
 

C-J...*

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markov` said:
Hockey is better in Canada because this is where hockey is born. That's it. It's the game we love and every one in Canada has ever played hockey once.

The only sport we're good at? False.
The only sport we're very very good at? True. ;)


Hockey originated in England :amazed: :eek:
 

Bring Back Bucky

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Reilly311 said:
What the **** are you talking about? I simply said "Not again" meaning these "Canada is the best" threads (that coincidentally seem to appear whenever canada starts doing well internationally) are getting old. Everyone knows and no one cares.

The reason this thread was created was because the thread starter needed some reinsurance to make himself sleep better at night. Then for him to say "Regardless of this tournament" is pathetic.


If you don't like "canada is best" posts, why not skip reading them, much less take the time to reply to them???
You may not like the thread starter, but that doesn't mean he needs REINSURANCE (which by the way is a practice of insurance companies) to sleep at night. Perhaps he sleeps really well without being mean to others, and just enjoys the fact that (in his mind at least) he is from hockey's greatest nation.
 

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It does getting annoying with all the Canada chest thumping, especially with all the "we should have won the WJC last year" nonsense where they try and taint the American win but when you sit back and realize that Canada's whole identity is caught up in Hockey and that is what they are most recognized with throughout the world you can understand where all the Canadian chest thumping comes from because if they lost that they also have an identity crisis up north.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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JR#9 said:
It does getting annoying with all the Canada chest thumping, especially with all the "we should have won the WJC last year" nonsense where they try and taint the American win but when you sit back and realize that Canada's whole identity is caught up in Hockey and that is what they are most recognized with throughout the world you can understand where all the Canadian chest thumping comes from because if they lost that they also have an identity crisis up north.


That's a pretty offensive comment to make about a nation. :dunno:
 
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