Can you beat this prospects line-up?

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Capitalhawk

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Jul 18, 2004
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Drake1588 said:
Well, Eminger and Semin are only 20 years old, and have appeared in only 57 and 52 NHL games, respectively. Both finished the season in the AHL working on their games, honing the rough edges.

Now Brian Sutherby is 22 and he is the closest to shedding the prospect label... but on the other hand, he only played 30 games in the NHL last season, with minimal fourth-line ice time, and finished the 2003-04 season in the AHL, before he sustained a groin injury. He may be getting a little older, but he has hardly reached the level of an NHL regular yet.


If one were to remove them...

Alexander Ovechkin - Jakub Klepis - Eric Fehr
Tomas Fleischmann - Jared Aulin - Jonas Johansson
Owen Fussey - Brooks Laich - Boyd Gordon
Steve Werner - Mikhail Yunkov - Chris Bourque

Extra: Peter Guggisberg, Pasi Salonen, Andreas Valdix

Shaone Morrisonn - Mike Green
Jeff Schultz - Sami Lepisto
Nolan Yonkman - Jakub Cutta

Extra: Oscar Hedman

Maxime Ouellet
Maxime Daigneault
Rastislav Stana
What exactly is the criteria? Age, number of games played? Draft year? This is the way I look at it.
Eminger and Semin I think get in under the guidelines, but Semin could almost be graduated. He would've stuck in the NHL if it weren't for the Caps being so terrible and Portland working towards the AHL playoffs. Why waste his talent (and salary, I presume) on a lost cause? Get him some experience in meaningful games. Eminger, still a prospect, even though he made the team as an 18 year old last year. Sutherby, I would no longer consider a prospect. He's been given many chances to stick and hasn't been consistent enough. But he's had his chances, so he loses "prospect" status, IMO.
It's why I could consider Igor Radulov (22) a graduated player as opposed to Vorobiev and Yakubov (both also 22). Radulov came in and almost made the team from training camp as a 19 year old. He's had stints that if he showed enough consistency the Blackhawks could (desperately) use him. He hasn't, and many wonder whether he'll pan out at all. Same goes for Leighton and Anderson. Even though Thibault should be back for the whole season, and one of the two will be in Norfolk, they've played enough games in the bigs to have lost "prospect" status.
Finally, in all, Washington and Pittsburgh edge Chicago out because the Hawks don't have a potential homerun guy. Was- Ovechkin and (fine!) Semin are dynamic. Pitt- Malkin and Fleury are also gamebreakers possibly. But Chi has such quality depth, they'll have a pipeline of NHL players pretty much at every position that I wouldn't trade my team's prospects for anyone's.
 

eatwake

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i think the classification is based on number of games played. that's why eminger's graduated and morrison isn't, though anyone who has seen both play would agree that morrisonn is much further along development-wise than eminger.

semin did stay in the nhl the whole season (save for the WJC's)
he was only sent to portland after the last regular season game for the caps since portland still had a few games to go
 

The Fuhr*

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Ott = Snott said:
Ottawa is a bit too high IMO. I think that they are top 20, but not top 15 anymore. Their depth is nothing to write home about and they have some prospects with questionmarks attached to them. Overall, a fairly accurate list.


You can't be serious. Ottawa still has one of the top 5 systems in the NHL. Just because they have not produced a Havlat or a Spezza in 2 years does not mean they dont have any depth in their system. The team can now afford to let their players develop in the minors for a few years.

Lets take a quick look at their system.

GOALTENDERS:

RAY EMERY: Franchise goalie. 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Kari Lehtonen.
KELLY GUARD: Shatterd WHL goaltending records. Future number 1 goalie
JEFF GLASS: Central scouting ranked him ahead of Cory Schneider who Vancouver
picked 26th overall in this past draft.
BILLY THOMPSON: Future backup.

DEFENCEMEN:

ANDREJ MESZAROS: Will be a number 1 defenceman. Get 50 plus points a season.
May even win a few Norris trophys. Reminds me of Lindstom.
KIRILL LYAMIN: This guy will become one of the most nastiest players in the game.
Will look extreamly good with Volchenkov in a couple seasons.
NEIL KOMADOSKI:Future top 4 d-men. Great outlet pass. Plays real nasty game.
JAN PLATIL: Future as a more physical Karel rachunek.
PHILLIPPE SEYDOUX: Could develop into a Kasperiteus(spelling mistake) type player
DEPTH GUYS: Schubert,Gimayev,colbert,Cook,

WINGERS:

PATRICK EAVES: Think Mike Peca.
BRANDON BOSHENSKI:30 goal 60 point upside in the NHL.

The sens could use some more depth in this area because the rest of the prospects they have that are wingers are nothing more then 3rd liners. However the sens can spend the time finding them because they have Hossa 25, Havlat 22, Alfredsson 31, Schafer 27, and Vermette 21. All of whom spend time on the wings.

CENTER:

IGOR MIRNOV: Has Havlat like upside.
ALEXEI KAIGORODOV: A 30 goal defensive responsable second line center.

Again the sens are filled with 3rd and 4th line centers in the minors and thoughout Europe. The Sens really don't have a need at this position with Spezza 21, readdy to take the number 1 center spot for the next 10-15 years. They also have Fisher 23, who will be the teams shut down guy second line center for a very long time.

All in all a top 5 system if you ask me.
 

Chaos

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Fuhr86 said:
You can't be serious. Ottawa still has one of the top 5 systems in the NHL. Just because they have not produced a Havlat or a Spezza in 2 years does not mean they dont have any depth in their system. The team can now afford to let their players develop in the minors for a few years.

Lets take a quick look at their system.

GOALTENDERS:

RAY EMERY: Franchise goalie. 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Kari Lehtonen.
KELLY GUARD: Shatterd WHL goaltending records. Future number 1 goalie
JEFF GLASS: Central scouting ranked him ahead of Cory Schneider who Vancouver
picked 26th overall in this past draft.
BILLY THOMPSON: Future backup.

DEFENCEMEN:

ANDREJ MESZAROS: Will be a number 1 defenceman. Get 50 plus points a season.
May even win a few Norris trophys. Reminds me of Lindstom.
KIRILL LYAMIN: This guy will become one of the most nastiest players in the game.
Will look extreamly good with Volchenkov in a couple seasons.
NEIL KOMADOSKI:Future top 4 d-men. Great outlet pass. Plays real nasty game.
JAN PLATIL: Future as a more physical Karel rachunek.
PHILLIPPE SEYDOUX: Could develop into a Kasperiteus(spelling mistake) type player
DEPTH GUYS: Schubert,Gimayev,colbert,Cook,

WINGERS:

PATRICK EAVES: Think Mike Peca.
BRANDON BOSHENSKI:30 goal 60 point upside in the NHL.

The sens could use some more depth in this area because the rest of the prospects they have that are wingers are nothing more then 3rd liners. However the sens can spend the time finding them because they have Hossa 25, Havlat 22, Alfredsson 31, Schafer 27, and Vermette 21. All of whom spend time on the wings.

CENTER:

IGOR MIRNOV: Has Havlat like upside.
ALEXEI KAIGORODOV: A 30 goal defensive responsable second line center.

Again the sens are filled with 3rd and 4th line centers in the minors and thoughout Europe. The Sens really don't have a need at this position with Spezza 21, readdy to take the number 1 center spot for the next 10-15 years. They also have Fisher 23, who will be the teams shut down guy second line center for a very long time.

All in all a top 5 system if you ask me.

A little biased perhaps? :shakehead
 

Rowsdower

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Fuhr86 said:
You can't be serious. Ottawa still has one of the top 5 systems in the NHL. Just because they have not produced a Havlat or a Spezza in 2 years does not mean they dont have any depth in their system. The team can now afford to let their players develop in the minors for a few years.

Lets take a quick look at their system.

GOALTENDERS:

RAY EMERY: Franchise goalie. 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Kari Lehtonen.
KELLY GUARD: Shatterd WHL goaltending records. Future number 1 goalie
JEFF GLASS: Central scouting ranked him ahead of Cory Schneider who Vancouver
picked 26th overall in this past draft.
BILLY THOMPSON: Future backup.

DEFENCEMEN:

ANDREJ MESZAROS: Will be a number 1 defenceman. Get 50 plus points a season.
May even win a few Norris trophys. Reminds me of Lindstom.
KIRILL LYAMIN: This guy will become one of the most nastiest players in the game.
Will look extreamly good with Volchenkov in a couple seasons.
NEIL KOMADOSKI:Future top 4 d-men. Great outlet pass. Plays real nasty game.
JAN PLATIL: Future as a more physical Karel rachunek.
PHILLIPPE SEYDOUX: Could develop into a Kasperiteus(spelling mistake) type player
DEPTH GUYS: Schubert,Gimayev,colbert,Cook,

WINGERS:

PATRICK EAVES: Think Mike Peca.
BRANDON BOSHENSKI:30 goal 60 point upside in the NHL.

The sens could use some more depth in this area because the rest of the prospects they have that are wingers are nothing more then 3rd liners. However the sens can spend the time finding them because they have Hossa 25, Havlat 22, Alfredsson 31, Schafer 27, and Vermette 21. All of whom spend time on the wings.

CENTER:

IGOR MIRNOV: Has Havlat like upside.
ALEXEI KAIGORODOV: A 30 goal defensive responsable second line center.

Again the sens are filled with 3rd and 4th line centers in the minors and thoughout Europe. The Sens really don't have a need at this position with Spezza 21, readdy to take the number 1 center spot for the next 10-15 years. They also have Fisher 23, who will be the teams shut down guy second line center for a very long time.

All in all a top 5 system if you ask me.

Forget about Marc-Andre Fleury?

I think you are being way to optimistic in your analysis.
 

Olorin

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guitaraholic said:
Perhaps I'm being a homer here but I'd like to see the Blues start getting some love for their underrated prospects:

Marek Schwarz
Peter Sejna
Alexei Shkotov
Konstantin Zakharov
Jason Bacashihua
Konstantin Barulin
Viktor Alexandrov
Carl Soderberg

All of those guys have high(er) end potential. That's a pretty decent list, IMO. As for sleeper prospects, Blues have plenty:

Tomas Troliga
Jon DiSalvatore
David Backes
Robin Jonsson
Zack FitzGerald
Trevor Byrne
Tuomas Nissinen
Juha-Matti Aaltonen
Jay McClement
John Pohl
D.J. King
Dennis Wideman
Patrick Wellar
Mike Stuart
Alexandre Bolduc


Guys that could be very solid 3rd line/role players. Some very close to the NHL like McClement and DiSalvatore and perhaps Byrne. A few who could also be 2nd liners with offensive upside (Bolduc, Pohl.) A reasonable mix of 'support prospects' as it were.

Again, I think the Blues deserve more respect than they're currently getting by the posters at HFBoards and the good folks who put together the Org Rankings for hockeysfuture.com.

just my opinions.

Definitely agree here. The Blues have quietly built a nice prospect base after having a weak system for a few years. Backes should be included amongst the higher level players you listed, IMO. He had a real nice freshman season at Minnesota State. With Shane Joseph graduating he should be the go to guy next season. Hopefully he can handle it. Soderberg I like quite a bit. Aaltonen is really a sleeper with goal scoring potential, he needs to secure a spot in the top league next season. McClement is a solid bet as well.
 

Hunter Gathers

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guitaraholic said:
"And then Lundqvist, the best goalie in Sweden and possibly all of Europe."

Holy hyperbole, Batman. Talk about overrating your prospects.

Than who's better? Let's see some names to back that statement up. I don't disagree with the Jessiman one, but this is a bit interesting that you could even think that.
 

mowthecat

Registered User
montreal said:
Hainsey was just given a one way contract and has to clear waivers to play in the AHL, so I'd expect him to be with the Habs next year as the 7th D, rotating in and out like they did with Komisarek this year. Hossa I think has one more year before he has to play in the NHL or go through waivers. I don't know if his recent contract was one way or not, but he should see some NHL games this year if there's a season. He has all kinds of talent, a great wrist shot, but just can't put it all together. No intenisty or confidence.

Hadnt heard of Hainsey getting the one way. Surprises me a little although I had heard he had improved slightly.

Hossa just seems like a guy with no heart to me.
 

The Fuhr*

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Rowsdower said:
Forget about Marc-Andre Fleury?

.

Nope I think Fleury is going to get ruined by the Pittsburgh orginization the same way Blackburn was ruined by the Rangers.
 

Testify

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is blackburn really that burned??

Does he still have a chance to becoming what he was projected to be.. a top goal tender for the Rangers? since montoya is going back to Michigan and is prolly 2-3 years away from the NHL...

I would like to have u guys opinion :)
 

bb_fan

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TomasPlekanec said:
Has the Habs tanked any season the last couple of years!? No, compared to Washington, Pittsburgh and Chicago..


no, just the thre or four years before that........

Were do u think you guys came up with all those high draft picks/prospects?
 

modestfwd

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Testify said:
is blackburn really that burned??

Does he still have a chance to becoming what he was projected to be.. a top goal tender for the Rangers? since montoya is going back to Michigan and is prolly 2-3 years away from the NHL...

I would like to have u guys opinion :)

Blackburn was rushed into the NHL. He should have returned to juniors but instead he was Richters backup. When Richter went down with injuries the next few seasons, Blackie played WAY too many games. Then we got Dunham, and he didn't play enough games. Next summer, he is working out and he damages a nerve in his shoulder. After waiting a whole season to see if it will heal by itself, he gets surgury. Now no one knows when he'll be back. It looks like he might play with Hartford starting December.

If he can overcome his injury, he could still be a great goalie.

But we have Montoya and Lundqvist waiting as potential #1's.


And Emery is not the #2 prospect behind Lehtonen. No F'ing way. He could be a number one some day, but right now he isn't #2.


And I'm still waiting to hear from HabsNewArena about the goalies who are better than Lundqvist in Europe...
 

habster

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bb_fan said:
no, just the thre or four years before that........

Were do u think you guys came up with all those high draft picks/prospects?

What what you talking about?

2000 13th pick overall
2001 7th pick overall? Lead the NHL that year on man-missed games (i think)
2002 14th pick overall But really 15th that year
2003 10th pick overall
2004 18th pick overall

Those numbers aren't what I call HIGH draft picks. I would say mid range. What year did the habs purposely tanked? :dunno:
 
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Vatican Roulette

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modestfwd said:
And I'm still waiting to hear from HabsNewArena about the goalies who are better than Lundqvist in Europe...


how bout me?

Lundqvist was drafted in 2000, makes him 22 years old. He has put up impressive #'s in the SEL, but those #'s aren't the best in europe.

Fredrik Norrena
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=559

From the profile at this site:
"Norrena is among the best goalies in Europe when it comes to stickhandling. He is a steady goalie and can carry a team by himself."

You are also forgetting about the European veterans such as Mike Fountain, Roman Malek, Peter Skudra, Dusan Salficky, Vitaly Eremeev, etc. who have put up damn good #'s over the past few years.

Even if you are speaking strictly on prospects, i'm sure Shwartz and Rask would give Lundqvist rating a little push.

Even in the Swedish league, he may not end up being the best goaltending prospect as he has to contend with Stefan Liv.

Lundqvist and Liv have put up similar #'s over the past few years. Liv this past season ended with a 2.23 GAA and a .923 SA. Lundqvist ended with a 2.17 GAA and a .927 SA.

Yet another sticking point in my eyes is that he's still in sweden. He wouldn't even be mentioned among the best in europe had the elite goalies stayed in europe, such as Lehtonen, Toivonen, Niittymaki and Tellqvist.

In fact, i'd compare him to Tellqvist. I believe they will both have the same impact when they come over to NA(as well as Stefan Liv for that matter). A hard time adjusting and eventually becoming a fringe #1 goalie.

Lunqvist is a good prospect, but not the best in europe as a #1 goalie, or a prospect.

Who knows
 

infinitesadd

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Fuhr86 said:
Nope I think Fleury is going to get ruined by the Pittsburgh orginization the same way Blackburn was ruined by the Rangers.


Fleury was handled well last year. I think he will be fine, this kid has the mindset to deal with whatever comes his way.
 

Munchausen

Guest
cj said:
Hello, I'm new here, but if you don't mind, I'm going to jump right in. :)

To the thread starter, I'm curious why you're so concerned about Montreal's prospect depth being the best in the league?

It's no secret that Montreal's prospect rating will drop significantly next year. But the good news is, that's not because several of their prospects became busts, it's because some of their top prospects joined the NHL. Komisarek and Ryder have graduated already and Hainsey and Hossa will get permanent roster spots next year. The Habs are no-longer a bottom-feeder team looking towards a future 5 years down the line. They're already a competitive team and they should only get better. How can this be a bad thing? There's no need to have the best prospect depth in the NHL when you've got a great group of young players already on your roster. ;)

Congratulations on being just about the only poster in this thread that seems capable of discussing in an other manner than "look I can pee farther than you".

How in the world can people get so worked up about who has the best prospects when prospects are nothing more than an unknown quantity. Who knows, Hossa might explode and become a 80pt NHLer, Kostitsyn might bust completely and never make it to the NHL, same goes for every god darn prospect in every freakin' team.

A lot of people here seem to have made it a rule of thumb to count their eggs before they hatch. To claim being able to determine with certitude who has the best prospect group and then make a descending order from there on for the other teams is nothing more than ludicrous (especially when you know that a lot of posters here seem to have a black and white kind of opinion on every single prospect discussed, when they're in reality completely clueless, aside from an elite bunch of posters that actually did watch most of those prospects play).

And even when you did see most of the prospects of every team play (which I'm sure is the case for everybody who posted in this thread right?), all you can do is guestimate according to different factors and personal preferences, but reading the posters in here, you'd think everything is set in stone about the potential of any given player, likeliness to make it, likely impact within the team, etc.

Hey, who would have given the edge to the Habs prospects last year because there was a certain Michael Ryder in the farm waiting to graduate? Nobody, because his path to the NHL and final contribution were unexpected, just like the majority of prospects discussed on these boards, whether it be in a positive or negative way.

Every year there's new evidence adding up about how silly and pointless those comparisons are and yet every year, somehow, everybody chooses to ignore the facts and talk prospects like if they were solving a math puzzle. Go figure.
 

Thundermare

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Aug 21, 2004
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JayzinSmith said:
Igor Radulov | Mikhail Yakubov | Pavel Vorobiev
Aleksandr Kojevnikov | Jakub Sindel | Dave Bolland
Bryan Bickell | Aleksei Ivanov | Matt Keith
Karel Hromas | Colin Fraser | Matt Ellison
-- ex: Ryan Garlock, Jari Viuhkola

Anton Babchuk | Brent Seabrook
Cam Barker | Michal Barinka
James Wisniewski | Duncan Keith
-- ex: Mitch Maunu, Dustin Byfuglien

Corey Crawford | Mike Brodeur

====================
That's a pretty good set of defensemen. :)


** Ruutu, Vandermeer, Leighton, and Anderson are all past the prospect stage.

Yep... that kick some serious Habs ass :banghead:

I'm a Habs Fan and I love our team's future... But Hawks and Pens gotta be on top of the list. The good news is Mtl did it already having a competitive team on the ice at the NHL level... so maybe it's close to a tie for the long run best team :dunno:
 
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Newfie Bruin

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Fuhr86 said:
You can't be serious. Ottawa still has one of the top 5 systems in the NHL. Just because they have not produced a Havlat or a Spezza in 2 years does not mean they dont have any depth in their system. The team can now afford to let their players develop in the minors for a few years.

Lets take a quick look at their system.

GOALTENDERS:

RAY EMERY: Franchise goalie. 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Kari Lehtonen.
KELLY GUARD: Shatterd WHL goaltending records. Future number 1 goalie
JEFF GLASS: Central scouting ranked him ahead of Cory Schneider who Vancouver
picked 26th overall in this past draft.
BILLY THOMPSON: Future backup.

DEFENCEMEN:

ANDREJ MESZAROS: Will be a number 1 defenceman. Get 50 plus points a season.
May even win a few Norris trophys. Reminds me of Lindstom.
KIRILL LYAMIN: This guy will become one of the most nastiest players in the game.
Will look extreamly good with Volchenkov in a couple seasons.
NEIL KOMADOSKI:Future top 4 d-men. Great outlet pass. Plays real nasty game.
JAN PLATIL: Future as a more physical Karel rachunek.
PHILLIPPE SEYDOUX: Could develop into a Kasperiteus(spelling mistake) type player
DEPTH GUYS: Schubert,Gimayev,colbert,Cook,

WINGERS:

PATRICK EAVES: Think Mike Peca.
BRANDON BOSHENSKI:30 goal 60 point upside in the NHL.

The sens could use some more depth in this area because the rest of the prospects they have that are wingers are nothing more then 3rd liners. However the sens can spend the time finding them because they have Hossa 25, Havlat 22, Alfredsson 31, Schafer 27, and Vermette 21. All of whom spend time on the wings.

CENTER:

IGOR MIRNOV: Has Havlat like upside.
ALEXEI KAIGORODOV: A 30 goal defensive responsable second line center.

Again the sens are filled with 3rd and 4th line centers in the minors and thoughout Europe. The Sens really don't have a need at this position with Spezza 21, readdy to take the number 1 center spot for the next 10-15 years. They also have Fisher 23, who will be the teams shut down guy second line center for a very long time.

All in all a top 5 system if you ask me.
Lehtonen
MAF

Montoya
Toivonen
Schwarz
Miller
Ouellet

Leclaire
Bryzgalov
Auld
Emery
Delauriers

Ward
Leneveu
Dubnyk
Harding

HM:Ahonen Bacashihua Niittymäki Daigneault
 

Newfie Bruin

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Try the Bruins

Zinovjev-Boyes-Evseev
Samuelsson-Krejci-Karsums
Marjamaki-Hilbert-Bitz
Huml-Thompson-Mondou
ex.Stastny, Vernarsky,Utkin,Versteeg, Rome

Stuart-Jonsson
Alberts- Hunwick
Jurcina- Redliker

Toivonen
Sigalet
 

Jormungandr

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Newfie Bruin said:
Lehtonen
MAF

Montoya
Toivonen
Schwarz
Miller
Ouellet

Leclaire
Bryzgalov
Auld
Emery
Delauriers

Ward
Leneveu
Dubnyk
Harding

HM:Ahonen Bacashihua Niittymäki Daigneault
This might seem a little homerish, but I think LeNeveu should be ATLEAST on par with Auld , Bryzgalov etc... The guy tore up the college level and was an AHL all-star in his rookie season, and named co-MVP (along with JM Pelletier) in Springfield. IMO he has proven a whole lot more than Cam Ward, Devan Dubnyk, and Josh Harding have as they are still in the Junior ranks(not a knock on them as I happen to be a fan of all three, especially Dubnyk). I'd definatly put him ahead of Deslauriers, and Leclaire though... :dunno:
 

Oilers Chick

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Hero of Tragedy said:
:sharks

Michalek-Hennessy-Bernier
Plihal-Goc-Kaspar
Joseph-Stevenson-Morris
Clowe-Mitchell-Zalesak

Ehrhoff-Murray
Carle-Spang
Maatta-Gorges

Ehelechner
Patzold
Churchill​

:shakehead

Can't believe Tom Cavanagh was left off of this list. One of the ECAC's best two-way forwards last season who had a great year at Harvard.
 

DownFromNJ

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Mar 7, 2004
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The Devils can compete for forward lines at least:

:devils


Pihlman-Parise-Suglobov
Tallackson-Zajac-Vrana
Voros-Foster-Pikkarainen
Rynzar-Khomutov-Laine

About as strong down center (even with Vrana on the wing) as it gets. Good mix of physical (Pihlman, Tallackson, Voros, Pikkarainen, Rynzar) and skilled (Parise, Suglobov, Zajac, Vrana, Foster, Khomutov) players.

We're weak on defense, I won't even bother listing beyond DeMarchi-Kadeykin. However, in Goal Ahonen is a blue chip prospect.
 

NYRangers

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We cant compete for #1 but heres the Rangers...

Korpikoski-Immonen-Balej
Jonasen-Graham-Jessiman
Marek-Prucha-Olver
Dawes-Helminen-Murray

Tyutin-Kondratiev
Pock-Baranka
Liffiton-Taylor

Montoya
Lundqvist

Gotta love that second line. Jonasen is 6'5, Graham is 6'6, and Jessiman is 6'5. Good top 4, and one of the best 1/2 punches from goalies.
 
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