Speculation: Can we talk about the Tomas Plekanec trade...

Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
24,093
5,452
I had just about forgotten about this stupid trade! And then, this thread appears! FO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToMaLe

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
He played literally 2 games matched up against Marchand and Bergeron and they had there worst games of the series. Prior to that they dominated the other leaf matchups hence the solid numbers... Plekanec was the only guy able to keep up with the line no one else did, when Plekanec was not on the ice Bergeron Marchand scored

You present this as factual. It's not. There are many factors as to why TOR lost, got scored on, etc. I also know this as not being factual because there was not 2 Tomas Plekanecs playing. There was only one.
 

frog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2014
2,427
1,449
Canada
You present this as factual. It's not. There are many factors as to why TOR lost, got scored on, etc. I also know this as not being factual because there was not 2 Tomas Plekanecs playing. There was only one.
I don't know about factual, thought he did well on the 2nd line shutting down Bergeron in the last few games of the series... Nothing more nothing less but I'd say he was worth it even if he only contributed for two games.
 

Fonzieleaf

Registered User
Jul 8, 2013
1,890
1,437
Collingwood, Ontario
Nm to discuss he was useless when he played those regular season games for us and he was only okay when we were in the playoffs.

I hate the fact that fourth line guys like him and Brian Boyle cost us 2nd round picks.
 

Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
14,712
4,777
Toronto
Trading for your main rivals heart and souls player usually ends like this. The player hated this team for many seasons and it was just straight up weird seeing him in Toronto. He clearly didn’t wanna be here and it showed. This was a huge head scratcher for me when it was announced. Even more weird is that at the time I remember some rumours of this trade being made because Marchand said he was the hardest player to play against
 

96

toronto money leafs
Sep 29, 2017
1,596
1,264
Paris
didnt like this at the time and it of course didnt work out... we needed a defensive C and got Tomas Plekanec. He was terrible.

watching him skate around in the blue and white with that turtle neck was torture
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al14 and ToMaLe

SnizzNasty88

Registered User
Mar 31, 2013
1,455
1,265
Toronto
The stupidest trade this organization has ever made. Not even cause it was a total bust because it wasn’t. But the fact that Lou who was the GM of the Leafs acquired the biggest Hab of all time and typical Habs player just reeked of stupidity. There were other guys available and you choose turtle neck Plekanec? Jesus.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
10,760
5,910
How quick they forget !!!

One of Lou Lam's best moves of all time:

Shedding Phaneuf’s contract
Lamoriello somehow on Feb. 9, 2016, convinced the Senators to accept the final five-plus seasons of Dion Phaneuf’s albatross-like seven-year, $49-milllion deal, giving the Maple Leafs much needed salary cap flexibility. Phaneuf, Matt Frattin, Casey Bailey, Ryan Rupert and Cody Donaghey went to Ottawa for Jared Cowen, Colin Greening, Milan Michalek, Tobias Lindberg and a second-round pick.

*** If not for Lou Lam, Phaneuf would still be on the books for $7 mil AAV through the 2020-21 season which is post JT and 3 Amigo's new contracts today. ***

One of many trade deadline deals that ensured the Leafs finish 30th overall while recapturing 5 years @ $7 mil cap hit ... A move that successfully resulted in the drafting Auston Matthews #1OA, the Leafs current franchise player.

Leafs’ netminder
Lamoriello certainly understands the importance of strong goaltending. He set up the Maple Leafs for success by acquiring netminder Frederik Andersen from the Ducks for a first-round pick in 2016 acquired from the Kessel trade, and a second-rounder in 2017 secured via Phaneuf Salary dump contract.

As a result of these transactions the Leafs went from last overall with 69 points to 95 points the very next year (+26 point point improvement) to a playoff spot taking on the Washington Capitals. Followed that up with a 105 All-time franchise best year the following season. Worst to franchise first in 2 years.

As mentioned above (earlier post) traded • Roman Polak • Nick Spaling to Sharks for • Raffi Torres • 2017 second round pick • 2018 second round pick on 2016-02-22. With these manufactured 2nd rounders he attempted to prop up Leafs playoff chances by the additions of veteran centres Boyle in 2017 & Plekanec in 2018.

Tomas Pleckanec was brought in at the TD to prop up a 105 point Leafs playoff team attempting to provide depth, leadership and PK ability, a very common move done by many teams in Cup contention annually.. He acquired the 2nd round pick by dealing Polak to SJ as a pending UFA the previous trade deadline, and then turned around and resigned Polak the following year as a UFA having him back on the Leafs for this playoff run with new teammate Plekanec in tow..

Basically acquiring Plekanec with found money!!. This is the transaction that Leaf Nation fans want to bemoan about years later of a playoff rental player?. Talk about some that can't see the forest for the trees, too involved in the minor details of an insignificant transaction now to look at the situation as a whole.

Also Traded • Daniel Winnik • 2016 fifth round pick to Capitals for • Brooks Laich • Connor Carrick • 2016 second round pick (#57-Carl Grundstrom) on 2016-02-28 ensuring the Leafs still made a 2nd round pick of their own. Grundstrom one of the players later dealt by Dubas to acquire Jake Muzzin.

This was a pure masterpiece body of GM work that didn't even include the cap friendly deals of Rielly and Kadri he signed Leafs to, in addition to passing on #1C Matthews and #1G Andersen as well as some prospects like Liljegren, Korshkov, Brooks and goalie prospects like Woll/Scott in the system for the next GM as well as a franchise best 105 point starting roster for his predecessor.

The logic behind your analysis of the Plekanec trade is really, really terrible.

How the second round pick was acquired is completely irrelevant. The Winnik/Spaling trade was great, but that doesn't mean flipping those assets for lesser ones us suddenly acceptable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
The logic behind your analysis of the Plekanec trade is really, really terrible.

How the second round pick was acquired is completely irrelevant. The Winnik/Spaling trade was great, but that doesn't mean flipping those assets for lesser ones us suddenly acceptable.

I'm not sure if you're aware but many many teams in playoff positions often deal futures for veteran depth at the trade deadline year after year.

Our Leafs were a playoff team and including were setting 105 franchise best marks.. So adding to that team at the trade deadline with the use of a manufactured draft pick (from Polak trade and expiring contract) and then resigning Polak as UFA in the summer before the pick was even due, is pure GM brilliance.

Besides I think the biggest argument would have been if Lou Lam was emptying the prospect cupboard to bring in guys like Boyle and Plekanec but Leafs made among the most draft selections in additions to dealing 2nds. ie 1 X 1st & 2 X 2nds & 2 X 3rds & 2 X 4ths in 2016. Did we really miss the Plecanec 2nd rounder?

2016 Entry
DraftNum.RoundPlayerPosDrafted FromGPGAPtsPIM
2016 Entry11Auston MatthewsCZurich SC [Swiss-A]28215812728546
2016 Entry312Egor KorshkovLYaroslavl Lokomotiv [KHL]11010
2016 Entry572Carl GrundstromRMODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]28551014
2016 Entry623Joseph WollGU.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry723J.D. GreenwayDU.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry924Adam BrooksCRegina Pats [WHL]70330
2016 Entry1014Keaton MiddletonDSaginaw Spirit [OHL]
2016 Entry1225Vladimir BobylevLVictoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry1526Jack WalkerLVictoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry1796Nicolas MattinenDLondon Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry1827Nikolai ChebykinLMVD Jrs (Russia)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

&

2017 Entry
DraftNum.RoundPlayerPosDrafted FromGPGAPtsPIM
2017 Entry171Timothy LiljegrenDRogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]110112
2017 Entry592Eemeli RasanenDKingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2017 Entry1104Ian ScottGPrince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2017 Entry1244Vladislav KaraLKazan [Russia-Jrs]
2017 Entry1415Fedor GordeevDFlint Firebirds [OHL]
2017 Entry1726Ryan McGregorCSarnia Sting [OHL]
2017 Entry2037Ryan O'ConnellDSt. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
Last edited:

DuncanMacpherson

Registered User
Apr 6, 2010
7,489
3,824
And if we won the Stanley Cup last year, Babcock would still be coach. Of course the trade would look better if we start pretending alternate realities.
Not a fair comparison, winning the Cup wasn’t close to happening, where as if Gardiner had turned the other direction on the Debrusk goal we win game 7.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
10,760
5,910
I'm not sure if you're aware but many many teams in playoff positions often deal futures for veteran depth at the trade deadline year after year.

Our Leafs were a playoff team and including were setting 105 franchise best marks.. So adding to that team at the trade deadline with the use of a manufactured draft pick (from Polak trade and expiring contract) and then resigning Polak as UFA in the summer before the pick was even due, is pure GM brilliance.

Besides I think the biggest argument would have been if Lou Lam was emptying the prospect cupboard to bring in guys like Boyle and Plekanec but Leafs made among the most draft selections in additions to dealing 2nds. ie 1 X 1st & 2 X 2nds & 2 X 3rds & 2 X 4ths in 2016. Did we really miss the Plecanec 2nd rounder?

2016 Entry
DraftNum.RoundPlayerPosDrafted FromGPGAPtsPIM
2016 Entry11Auston MatthewsCZurich SC [Swiss-A]28215812728546
2016 Entry312Egor KorshkovLYaroslavl Lokomotiv [KHL]11010
2016 Entry572Carl GrundstromRMODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]28551014
2016 Entry623Joseph WollGU.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry723J.D. GreenwayDU.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry924Adam BrooksCRegina Pats [WHL]70330
2016 Entry1014Keaton MiddletonDSaginaw Spirit [OHL]
2016 Entry1225Vladimir BobylevLVictoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry1526Jack WalkerLVictoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry1796Nicolas MattinenDLondon Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry1827Nikolai ChebykinLMVD Jrs (Russia)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
&

2017 Entry
DraftNum.RoundPlayerPosDrafted FromGPGAPtsPIM
2017 Entry171Timothy LiljegrenDRogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]110112
2017 Entry592Eemeli RasanenDKingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2017 Entry1104Ian ScottGPrince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2017 Entry1244Vladislav KaraLKazan [Russia-Jrs]
2017 Entry1415Fedor GordeevDFlint Firebirds [OHL]
2017 Entry1726Ryan McGregorCSarnia Sting [OHL]
2017 Entry2037Ryan O'ConnellDSt. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I'm not arguing against the specific trade - I don't think it was as bad as others are making it out to be, but I don't think it was a good one either. I'm arguing against the logic that it's a good trade by virtue of having made a good trade to acquire the pick in the first place.

To use someone else's analogy from earlier in the thread, if I sell a hot dog for $100, that's amazing. If I then buy a half eaten hot dog for $50, that's still a terrible deal because, even though the $50 was "found money", I would be way better off with $50 than a half-eaten hot dog.

Thes of moves as a whole was a positive, I agree... but that doesn't mean each individual component was good.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
Fun Fact: Tomas Plekanec

For those that were paying attention: In the 2017-18 playoffs for the Maple Leafs Tomas Plekanec recorded in 7 games 2 goals 2 assists for 4 points (which tied him for 4th in Leaf playoff scoring) behind on #1 Marner 2-7-9 points, #2 Patty Marleau 4-1-5 points (the Leafs leading playoff goal scorer) & Morgan Rielly 0-5-5 points.

Kadri got himself suspended again 4 games 0-2-2 points, while Nylander recorded 1-3-4 points and Auston Matthews 7 games 1-1-2 points.

Plekanec scored as many goals and Matthews and Nylander combined and just as many as Marner also. While Patty Marleau scored as many goals 4 as 3 Amigo's combined.

2017-18 Skating Postseason Toronto Maple Leafs ESPN

How quick they forget:

In Game #6 with Leafs facing elimination against Boston down 3-2 in the series .. Plekanec set up Marner for the GWG and then scored the insurance goal in the 3rd himself to secure the victory, after Plekanec was moved to centre Marner & Hyman for game #6. Without Plekanec do the Leafs even play a game #7?

Scoring Summary (Bruins vs. Maple Leafs - Box Score - April 23, 2018 - ESPN)

1st Period
No Goals Scored

2nd Period
1:02 Jake DeBrusk (3) Assists: David Krejci
1:37 William Nylander (1) :Assists: Nazem Kadri,Nikita Zaitsev
13:25 Mitch Marner (2) Assists: Tomas Plekanec,Ron Hainsey

3rd Period

18:46 Tomas Plekanec (2) Assists: Mitch Marner,Nikita Zaitsev
 
  • Like
Reactions: notDatsyuk

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
9,649
7,521
Plekanec played seven games, had 2 goals and 2 assists, was a +1, and took one minor penalty.

Kadri played four games, had 2 assists, was a 0 +/-, took 19 minutes in penalties and was suspended for stupid, selfish play that left us short manned for the rest of the series.

Plekanec was a so-so deal that didn't make much difference. Getting rid of Kadri was a big plus for the team.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
I'm not arguing against the specific trade - I don't think it was as bad as others are making it out to be, but I don't think it was a good one either. I'm arguing against the logic that it's a good trade by virtue of having made a good trade to acquire the pick in the first place.

To use someone else's analogy from earlier in the thread, if I sell a hot dog for $100, that's amazing. If I then buy a half eaten hot dog for $50, that's still a terrible deal because, even though the $50 was "found money", I would be way better off with $50 than a half-eaten hot dog.

Bad Analogy:

Here is one that represents the actual situation better .. History .. In 2016 Leafs trade Polak to SJ for a future 2nd round pick 2018. In summer 2017 Leafs resign Roman Polak. So by the time the 2018 playoffs began Leafs had both Polak (back) and Plekanec in their playoff line-up at the same time.

Better Analogy:

If I sold you my used Lawnmower for $100, and you used it a few times and then gave it right back to me for free. So now I have my own original lawnmower back + your $100 bucks. (its found money). Do you really care what I do with the money at that point as I already won the transaction? What if I bought a lottery ticket with the money?

In Leafs example they used it in a short-term return a playoff rental player for a Stanley Cup playoff run, coming off a franchise best 105 point season and strong Cup conteder. As I pointed out above Plekanec tied for 4th in Leafs playoff scoring that year 2-2-4 points and also was the games #2 star in a 3-1 Leafs win in game #6 to save the Leafs from elimination. So Leafs got a return on their investment.

Your argument is Leafs would have been better off without Plekanec, and you would have preferred instead invested it in a 2nd round pick in 2018 (unknown prospect) that may or may not have turned out. That is like saying instead of an actual measurable return (playoff player points), you would have preferred buying a lottery ticket instead (even though you have no idea if this would have returned anything at all).

However this is yours and others position and bone of contention with this deal, declaring victory while holding nothing of substance in return to support it. :wg:
 
Last edited:

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
10,760
5,910
Bad Analogy:

Here is one that represents the actual situation better .. History .. In 2016 Leafs trade Polak to SJ for a future 2nd round pick 2018. In summer 2017 Leafs resign Roman Polak. So by the time the 2018 playoffs began Leafs had both Polak (back) and Plekanec in their playoff line-up at the same time.

Better Analogy:

If I sold you my used Lawnmower for $100, and you used it a few times and then gave it right back to me for free. So now I have my own original lawnmower back + your $100 bucks. (its found money). Do you really care what I do with the money at that point as I already won the transaction? What if I bought a lottery ticket with the money?

In Leafs example they used it in a short-term return a playoff rental player for a Stanley Cup playoff run, coming off a franchise best 105 point season and strong Cup conteder. As I pointed out above Plekanec tied for 4th in Leafs playoff scoring that year 2-2-4 points and also was the games #2 star in a 3-1 Leafs win in game #6 to save the Leafs from elimination. So Leafs got a return on their investment.

Your argument is Leafs would have been better off without Plekanec, and you would have preferred instead invested it in a 2nd round pick in 2018 (unknown prospect) that may or may not have turned out. That is like saying instead of an actual measurable return (playoff player points), you would have preferred buying a lottery ticket instead (even though you have no idea if this would have returned anything at all).

However this is yours and others position and bone of contention with this deal, declaring victory while holding nothing of substance in return to support it. :wg:

It sure seems like your just mashing my post together with a bunch of other people's opinions and assuming they're all the same. I literally just said I don't think the trade was as bad as people are making it out to be. I don't really have much of a problem with it.

And, once again, that's my point: either you think a second round pick was worth it for Plekanec or you don't. The trade tree and how the pick was acquired are completely irrelevant in terms of actual asset management.
 

cgc83

30-HELENS-AGREE
Jul 8, 2018
468
330
i didnt like giving up the 2nd rd'er but i think people are forgetting Plekanec played a pretty good pest role who could also win big draws .... oh yeah and its a good job they went out and aquired him after no self control Kadri there took himself out the series .
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->