Can we talk about Geno?

[Le Magnifique 66]

Geno will be just fine when we get BB and Neal back

 

[Darth Vitale]

You know what happens when Neal reads threads like this?

 

[Tumty]

I can understand why people frustrated with Geno might say this but it all stems from the same thing: people wanting Geno to be Sid. There are MANY players in the league who make big money, who cannot by themselves take a line, any line, and score lots of points. In fact Sid might be the ONLY player in the NHL who can do that. Getzlaf can't do it himself, Stamkos can't, Datysuk can't, Sedin can't... what Sid does (make OK players look a lot better than OK) is extremely rare. So technically by your logic, no one should get paid close to 8M a year or whatever, except Sid.

Geno is not Sid. Geno has a different body type, a different posture with the puck, different skating, different everything. Sid is a low COG, net-front Center. He's a bull. Malkin is an eagle. This means it's much easier for him to play with a wide variety of players and still be successful, because 90% of his points come from 5 feet away from the net. Geno is more of a perimeter C, as I said earlier today. His game is to skate and swoop through traffic, drawing people to him... and he's smart enough that he can see the lanes he's going to create before he creates them... he goes to the right spot, and if he has someone like Neal who can bury pucks with regularity, Geno is as unstoppable as Sid. But Geno can't make the guys he's playing with be in the right spot at the right time or be a good shooter. That's why Dupuis was always terrible on Malkin's wing. He's not smart enough to know where to be and his shot isn't good enough. Kunitz was a little different because he was the puck hound, not the shooter (except cleaning up the trash).

Geno needs someone like Neal (or any sniper with a high IQ) and when he has him, they can combine for huge point totals, as we saw a couple years ago. Bennett could work with Geno too potentially (they haven't played enough together to know for sure), but ultimately Neal is the guy. Take Neal away and Geno is less effective. That shouldn't mean we talk about trading him or that he's badly overpaid. Like I said, take away Perry and how much is Getzlaf going to dominate play and score points? Not that well, IMO. How's Kopitar going to look with Jussi and Kobasew as wingers? What about Backstrom? NONE of these guys can carry wingers the way Sid can.

People need to start seeing things in context and seeing that even when he struggles Geno's still PPG. That's pretty amazing. You can count on one hand the guys in this league who can do that consistently, and that's his low basically, not the norm (which is more like 1.5 PPG).

If you guys want to talk Geno that's fine but if it starts getting into trolls talking trade for Geno (and there are a couple trolls in here who will remain nameless), I'm shutting this down until such time as he's really doing something bad / causing problems.

one of the best things i have read in hfb. Really.

 

[Tumty]

Geno will be just fine when we get BB and Neal back

I hope that bb going to 1. Line.

 

[KIRK]

I hope that bb going to 1. Line.

BB will NOT be in the top six as long as DB is coach.

 

[DrDangles]

Did I miss something? Why is everybody hating on Juice? Him and Geno seem to have pretty solid chemistry.

 

[Pancakes]

Geno's been fine. In fact I think he's been our best player during this three game losing streak. The points will come.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He's missing lazy. Sid does well with his wingers because they have chemistry, they know where each other are, it's tough for Geno when he has a new winger every shift and has no clue what their tendencies are. Jokinen and Geno do have some chemistry though, but he's really missing "Lazy."

 

[ByeBye]

Has anyone else noticed how calm and collected Malkin stays this season when opponents try to get a rise out of him (like Kadri yesterday or Hamonic repeatedly against the Islanders)? Sure, he'll trip someone occasionally and the board goes absolutely crazy but I get the impression that he is barely taking any of these retaliatory penalties anymore.
Take that and is tremendously improved faceoff percentage (I couldn't believe what I saw when I looked it up) and we might actually have a much improved Geno on our hands once he plays with his regular linemates. The hustle and the motivation is definitely there.

 

[Whakahere]

From what I have seen Geno is just trying to do too much. His wingers can't create or make enough room for him. JJ doesn't well with him but Geno needs someone to makes some room for him. When Neal gets back I hope they can start knocking in some goals.

Geno likes to carry the puck and teams are playing the body on him. He needs some room and that is where he needs good wingers. He's still creating but no one is home to finish his work off.

 

[Dupree13]

I agree with the point about Sid being a bull and Geno more of an eagle. But I remember when Geno was younger, people said how scary he would be when at his size, he gained some upper body strength. Then he could be more of a bull, driving the net and being impossible to knock off the puck.

He's shown that he can be that bull too, and that's when he starts dominating and putting up gaudy point totals. But for some reason, he's only done it in spurts. (Often when Sid is out, as has been widely noted).

Way too often, he reverts to being a non-physical perimeter player who relies on finesse moves. That version of Malkin is still a point-per-game guy, but he's not the Hart Trophy caliber guy that Malkin gets paid to be.

 

[spizzle420]

He's not terrible but I'm surprised a lot of you are satisfied with his play.

He's not playing anywhere near "2nd best in the world". or even close to that conversation. Lots of dumb plays, blind passes, failed puck hogging attempts. He could use a slap.

I have high expectations tho. MVP caliber expectations.

Guess I'll wait for Neal to come back.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's not terrible but I'm surprised a lot of you are satisfied with his play.

He's not playing anywhere near "2nd best in the world". or even close to that conversation. Lots of dumb plays, blind passes, failed puck hogging attempts. He could use a slap.

I have high expectations tho. MVP caliber expectations.

Guess I'll wait for Neal to come back.

Yep. It's one thing to take a dip in production when your trigger man is replaced by the likes of Kobasew and D'Agostini, but it's something else entirely to start making irresponsible decisions with the puck in dangerous areas. If the current roster limitations make it difficult for him to make dynamic plays, he can at least try to make smart ones...linemates aren't preventing him from doing that.

Malkin is a much better player than we've seen so far this year.

 

[rylansmith]

Malkin doesn't have an even strength point in his last 4 games.

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to more Malkin up with Crosby?
The top 6 would be:
Kunitz-Crosby-Malkin
D'Agostini-Jokinen-Dupuis

 

[gordie]

Kunitz back with Geno and Jokinen with Sid. But I don't think that will be happening.

 

[DegenX]

Malkin doesn't have an even strength point in his last 4 games.

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to more Malkin up with Crosby?
The top 6 would be:
Kunitz-Crosby-Malkin
D'Agostini-Jokinen-Dupuis

Malkin is not a winger. It's one thing to put the two-headed monster on the ice on the PP or when we're in dire need of a goal, but as an actual line, no.

And secondly, that top six looks ... not appealing. I've got mixed feelings about JJ. He's not only in a contract year, but he's also stated that one of his goals is to make the Olympic team, so he's motivated but I'm not sure that having him center a line is all that great of an idea. And even with a motivated JJ, I can see why the Canes were willing to keep part of his salary to move him. He seems to play really well against teams that have cut him loose, but other times he's just meh or invisible.

 

[NatureBoy]

Kobasew just looked lost with Malkin, it is a good thing that he now again plays where he belongs, in the Bottom 6, he had a much better game imo.

D´Agostini looked a bit better next to Malkin, but that still will not be good enough. This team needs Neal and Bennett back as soon as possible. But I have a feeling, that this will be another year in which we will never have a full lineup.

 

[Shwag33]

Malkin just needs to go to the net more. Malkin plays too much on the perimter, sid gets dirty goals; malkin doesnt.

Really thats most of the difference between them. I know they are different players, but you're just not going to be successful if your always on the perimeter. Neal helps him because he can bury shots from outside of the paint area.

 

[TheBeardofJustice]

I think the point here is that Neal is a much needed part of the team. Most of our team are "finishers." We really don't have a trigger man. Sid is an amazing play maker but does not snipe that often(although he does sometimes and it is amazing). Kunitz and Dupuis are pretty good passing the puck but once again they can't snipe. We just simply need more shooters. What does 4 goals in what? 114 shots tell you. It says that we completely dominated the Isles and Avs in terms of playing the game. We pinned them in their own zone, cycled the puck pretty well, and overall dominated. The aim of the game is to score. I understand how the Pens feel, no doubt. It is utterly embarrassing and feels almost unjust that you can dominate the game and outshoot the other team in key situations by 40 and not score and the Avs take it down the ice once and get a knuckle puck in. To remedy that we need to get one more sniper, move him to Sid's line and move Dupuis to the third line. That would do wonders for the team. Also, as much as I want a knee-jerk reaction to send Letang somewhere, I believe he can be a sniper too. He just has to be trained. When he tries to shoot now it just ends up in a blocked shot going to our defensive end. There is a reason our raw talent is not being converted to success. We really do need new coaches. **** it, keep Disco. Just get some competent assistant coaches.

 

[KIRK]

I think the point here is that Neal is a much needed part of the team. Most of our team are "finishers." We really don't have a trigger man. Sid is an amazing play maker but does not snipe that often(although he does sometimes and it is amazing). Kunitz and Dupuis are pretty good passing the puck but once again they can't snipe. We just simply need more shooters. What does 4 goals in what? 114 shots tell you. It says that we completely dominated the Isles and Avs in terms of playing the game. We pinned them in their own zone, cycled the puck pretty well, and overall dominated. The aim of the game is to score. I understand how the Pens feel, no doubt. It is utterly embarrassing and feels almost unjust that you can dominate the game and outshoot the other team in key situations by 40 and not score and the Avs take it down the ice once and get a knuckle puck in. To remedy that we need to get one more sniper, move him to Sid's line and move Dupuis to the third line. That would do wonders for the team. Also, as much as I want a knee-jerk reaction to send Letang somewhere, I believe he can be a sniper too. He just has to be trained. When he tries to shoot now it just ends up in a blocked shot going to our defensive end. There is a reason our raw talent is not being converted to success. We really do need new coaches. **** it, keep Disco. Just get some competent assistant coaches.

What makes you think it will be better with Neal? There will be more points, but it won't be better in the way you need because you still lack that sandpaper guy with a little skill.

Malkin and Neal were blah together last year. They were decent with Sullivan, like I expect them to be with Jokinen. They were dominant with Kunitz.

Malkin won his calder centering Staal and Oullet? Who was the goal scorer?

Malkin had chemistry with Sykora, like he has with Neal, but he was never better with Sykora than when Malone was his LW. And, while he won a scoring title with Feds and Sykora, he needed Talbot, not Sykora, to win the Conn Smythe.

Some of us also cite Malkin's time in Russia under Dave King and Paul Maurice. For all the skilled guys, for all the goal scorers, both found that you got Malkin's best with Kulemin.

There's no greater Geno myth out there than the idea that he NEEDS a goal scorer. Neal, like Sykora, is a luxury. What he NEEDS, what the stats and the eye test show, is a sandpaper guy with a little skill.

 

[mpp9]

It is strange how many on here defend KCD's chemistry, and yet don't understand or care to understand that Malkin could use his Kunitz type as well.

I think Juice/Neal may out skill teams. But I don't think it'll be enough against Boston in the postseason.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What makes you think it will be better with Neal? There will be more points, but it won't be better in the way you need because you still lack that sandpaper guy with a little skill.

Malkin and Neal were blah together last year. They were decent with Sullivan, like I expect them to be with Jokinen. They were dominant with Kunitz.

Malkin won his calder centering Staal and Oullet? Who was the goal scorer?

Malkin had chemistry with Sykora, like he has with Neal, but he was never better with Sykora than when Malone was his LW. And, while he won a scoring title with Feds and Sykora, he needed Talbot, not Sykora, to win the Conn Smythe.

Some of us also cite Malkin's time in Russia under Dave King and Paul Maurice. For all the skilled guys, for all the goal scorers, both found that you got Malkin's best with Kulemin.

There's no greater Geno myth out there than the idea that he NEEDS a goal scorer. Neal, like Sykora, is a luxury. What he NEEDS, what the stats and the eye test show, is a sandpaper guy with a little skill.

Actually, that's a myth too. Jokinen and Neal looked fantastic with Malkin this year in their limited time together, and the reason Malkin's line didn't look good last year wasn't simply because it didn't have a sandpaper guy, it's because a) he had a lingering shoulder injury, and b) everybody who played on the LW was either crappy or adjusting to a new position.

 

[KIRK]

Actually, that's a myth too. Jokinen and Neal looked fantastic with Malkin this year in their limited time together, and the reason Malkin's line didn't look good last year wasn't simply because it didn't have a sandpaper guy, it's because a) he had a lingering shoulder injury, and b) everybody who played on the LW was either crappy or adjusting to a new position.

Funny, I'm the Geno homer taking an honest look at when he produces and when he doesn't, and you're the honest critic making dishonest excuses.

As for Jokinen looking good with Malkin and Neal, he looked good-- and IMO will look good-- in the way Sullivan did. They'll get their points when what you really need when it matters is dominance. Malkin's numbers took off with Kunitz in 2011-2012, and his shoulder wasn't an issue then.

BTW, Malkin's best hockey has been played with a sandpaper guy. Staal. Malone. Kunitz. Talbot. One could argue that he won a scoring title with Feds and Sykora, but (a) different system (one with a lot more countering), (b) there were a lot of times when Malkin racked up his points before the coaching change where Therrien would make line changes (e.g., Cooke for Feds) because nobody could get the puck, and (c) when it mattered, Malkin needed the sandpaper, Talbot.

And, that's not a myth. An assertion proven by statistics is called a substantiated argument.

 

[Acquizitor*]

Let me preface this by saying Malkin is by far my favorite penguin. I love everything about him. His play is mesmerizing and he scores while looking good doing it. He's a humble great guy who could care less about the spotlight and his passion for the game is all over his face anytime he scores.

That being said WTF is his deal. He hasn't had a good game all year. He's sub ppg and I known its a small sample size but come on do you really expect a 100pt season out of him from what you've seen so far? I have never seen such consistency issues from season to season. Last year at least he was injured. I don't know how you go from that dominant beast who scores 112pts in 77 games to what we are currently seeing.

Maybe it's the line mates but I don't quite buy that. He's scored a lot with worse before.

Is he past his prime? Whats the deal. It kills me to see him so mediocre.

I feel exactly the same way about everything you have said here.

its an unfortunate trait of the typical russian mentality. it can be seen in nearly every russian player, it manifests itself especially when the player receives a long stable contract.

 

[theicebox]

I feel exactly the same way about everything you have said here.

its an unfortunate trait of the typical russian mentality. it can be seen in nearly every russian player, it manifests itself especially when the player receives a long stable contract.

Did you watch the game last night instead of watching the McCarthy trials?