Can the New York Rangers be worth a billion?

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
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3,239
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
Value and worth are subjective. Franchises are not sold off the shelf.

Something is only actually worth what another person would write a check for. All Forbes is saying is that a sale of the Leafs would go in the billion dollar range -- however, that number is trying to itemize something that is rarely itemized because they're part of a corporate empire, just so they can have an "Apples to Apples" list of teams values.

Valuing the Leafs at a billion is fine for that purpose. It doesn't matter that the idea that someone would buy JUST the Leafs for $1 billion is absurd: It would take much more money, and the buyer would get much more than JUST the Leafs -- as 65% (or whatever) of MLSE went for $1.088 billion (I think).

But in all these franchise sales in sports, where teams go for X dollars there's two massive additional factors making the sale a different price that Forbes' sticker price:

#1 - The additional elements besides just the team. The Dodgers price tag was $2 billion because it included the TEAM, the ballpark, the parking lots around the ballpark, and their TV rights which were up for free agency. The Islanders sales have seen the owners (Spanos/Wang) paying $165/$180 million because the TV contract is "worth more than the team."

#2 - The need/desire to sell/buy. Just like a player trade, if an owner wants out, they're going to take less to get a deal done. Like Atlanta Spirit Group taking $110 million ($54 less than Forbes' value) because they really wanted no part of the Thrashers.

But an owner with no desire to sell is going to have to be blown away by an offer. And that's why valuing the Leafs or Rangers at over a billion is fine. They could value the Rangers at TWO billion, because no one would WANT to buy just the team, they'd want the whole package of Rangers, Knicks, (the Liberty), The Garden and MSG Network. And Cablevision would probably need at least an $8 billion offer to even entertain discussion on the subject of selling.
 

aemoreira1981

Registered User
Jan 27, 2012
7,168
304
New York City
Why are you including 50% of other MSG assets in the Rangers value? The Rangers and, for example, MSG Network are two different companies. They are just both owned by MSG Inc. If Dolan were to sell the Rangers, that doesn't mean he's selling 50% of MSG Network.

Cablevision was split into three companies in the 2010s. The first spinoff was MSG Company, which includes the MSG Network, the sports teams, and Fuse. The second spinoff was AMC Networks, which includes all of the other cable networks (AMC, Sundance, IFC and its related media, WE, and now Chellomedia), and the sale was that of the Clearview Cinemas movie chain, which was sold off this year to Bow Tie Cinemas (except for the Ziegfield theater, which had personnel transferred to Bow Tie but whose real estate was excluded from the deal).

The Rangers and MSG Network are owned by the same company. If the other properties associated with the Rangers were to be excluded from a sale, the property value drops, as the Rangers would have to be paying rent....as happened when Comcast sold the 76ers, but only the franchise itself, to eventual Devils owner Josh Harris.

On post 26 above - given that it took a 64 percent premium to sell Dow Jones to Fox (that was also a dual class company), $104 or so per share (the same as the premium post 26 mentions - 72 percent) may well be what it takes to entertain a sale.
 

Kane One

Moderator
Feb 6, 2010
43,103
10,625
Brooklyn, New NY
Cablevision was split into three companies in the 2010s. The first spinoff was MSG Company, which includes the MSG Network, the sports teams, and Fuse. The second spinoff was AMC Networks, which includes all of the other cable networks (AMC, Sundance, IFC and its related media, WE, and now Chellomedia), and the sale was that of the Clearview Cinemas movie chain, which was sold off this year to Bow Tie Cinemas (except for the Ziegfield theater, which had personnel transferred to Bow Tie but whose real estate was excluded from the deal).

The Rangers and MSG Network are owned by the same company. If the other properties associated with the Rangers were to be excluded from a sale, the property value drops, as the Rangers would have to be paying rent....as happened when Comcast sold the 76ers, but only the franchise itself, to eventual Devils owner Josh Harris.

On post 26 above - given that it took a 64 percent premium to sell Dow Jones to Fox (that was also a dual class company), $104 or so per share (the same as the premium post 26 mentions - 72 percent) may well be what it takes to entertain a sale.

I know it was spun off. That doesn't mean the Rangers are part owners of other MSG Inc.'s assets. The Rangers are just another asset owned by MSG Inc., no?
 

cptjeff

Reprehensible User
Sep 18, 2008
20,384
33,948
Washington, DC.
Forbes doubled the value of the Leafs from a half billion to a billion in the span of a single year, so they were clearly vastly underestimating the Leafs previously, are greatly overestimating their value currently, or both, none of which paint a very good picture for how accurate their guesstimates are.

Maybe they're finally trying to bring their numbers in line with actual sale prices. The biggest trend I've observed in their numbers is that they're often about half of what sale prices wind up being.
 

Kane One

Moderator
Feb 6, 2010
43,103
10,625
Brooklyn, New NY
Maybe they're finally trying to bring their numbers in line with actual sale prices. The biggest trend I've observed in their numbers is that they're often about half of what sale prices wind up being.

Because no one would sell something for what it's worth if they don't need to sell it. Just because something is sold for a certain value doesn't mean it's worth that same value.
 

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