Can the Leafs afford to wait for Liljegren and Sandin?

[DarkKnight]

Of course he's figuring it out, he is a teenager in one of best leagues in the world. We also have people that felt he had a "lackluster camp, which as you "ignores reality". If you feel he is close to NHL ready, you have people taking shots(this is your style).
His stat doesnt confirm anything. If stats was the measure, Dermott shoulnt have been called up.
At least you got your weekly hate on Lilly post today.
Anyways...

You're so silly sometimes dude. It's fair comment. It's a thread about these kids. I love Lil, get a life.

 

[thewave]

Yeah but his stat line shows "he isnt close to ready"

He'll be fine. See him by the end of the season.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yes next year we can do well without Gardiner on our LD.

Rielly Zaitsev
Dermott ________
Sandin Ozhiganov
Rosen Liljegren
Borgman Holl

We need to sign a one year stop gap for the RD.

This year I see Liljegren and Oz competing for the bottom 3rd pair ice time eventually later in the season.

Next year, I see the two of of them pushing the stop gap signing to the pressbox.

 

[biotk]

His stat doesnt confirm anything. If stats was the measure, Dermott shoulnt have been called up.

Well Dermott did put up a lot of points over the 8 games or so before the call up. But he only managed 2 points in the first 10 games last year with the Marlies - 4 points in his first 16 games.

 

[81Leafs50]

YES!

 

[biotk]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch the Marlies yet this year.

I see Liljegren with SIX shots on goal. Borgman has 22, Subban has 17, Rosen has 18, Nielsen has 10.

Rosen, Subban and Borgman have as many, if not more points than him.

Is Liljegren not being used enough in offensive situations, to stifle his numbers this badly?

The shot numbers have been my concern. However, while I watched him play a lot for the Marlies last year, this year I haven't at all. Liljegren now has 7 shots in 8 games and as 3 of those occurred during his first game of the season, that means only 4 shots over his last 7 games (his lowest amount over a 7 game stretch in the AHL - including the playoffs). Last year he had 16 shots in his first 8 games.

My understanding is that he has been with Rosen at ES for basically all of this year. The games I watched him play with Rosen last year I would say were easily the least offensive games I watched him play all year. Rosen takes a lot of risks and Rosen takes a lot of shots.

 

[Apotheosis]

Absolutely. People need to stop being obsessed with such an early stage of the cup window. We have nearly unparalleled offensive depth in our top 9 this season. Rielly is playing great and Dermott looks like a top 4 D. This season to me is year one of trying to prove we're a real contender. See how far this offensive talent takes us. When they big 3 are signed, that's when you start making decisions. But I am hugely against using Sandin and Liljegren (and to a lesser extent, Grundstrom/SDA/Durzi) in trade talks. Because yes, while it might help get us closer, the ELC's these guys will be on when/if they come up are going to be pivotal to continuing the contending window from 5 years all the way to a decade long.

 

[biotk]

We have seen what happens when we lose Nylander, and its not bad at all.

I disagree. I think the Leafs have been terrible. They managed to go 6-3 because they had a sky-high shooting percentage, predominantly against some really weak teams. Matthews' line is so bad at getting out of their own zone that the opposing goalie could take a nap.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The shot numbers have been my concern. However, while I watched him play a lot for the Marlies last year, this year I haven't at all. Liljegren now has 7 shots in 8 games and as 3 of those occurred during his first game of the season, that means only 4 shots over his last 7 games (his lowest amount over a 7 game stretch in the AHL - including the playoffs). Last year he had 16 shots in his first 8 games.

My understanding is that he has been with Rosen at ES for basically all of this year. The games I watched him play with Rosen last year I would say were easily the least offensive games I watched him play all year. Rosen takes a lot of risks and Rosen takes a lot of shots.

TBH I'd prefer Lily focus on developing being that anchor of a pairing that can stabilize it defensively and help transition the puck up ice with his mobility and skill more than just putting up numbers.

I believe he has the offensive skill/potential that will shine through, especially at higher levels with better players, but having him hone in on the defensive side of the game will give him a good foundation at the next level.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Dear Jeebus father of Gawd!

The answer is a No so loud all the Christians will think Rapture is upon us.

 

[Macallan18]

An awful lot of this depends on our Mr. Bobcat.
We could already field a seriously better lineup, minutes wise, with a
Rielly-Gardiner (historically an absolutely killer pairing)
Dermott-Ozy (Dermott could be a star, Ozy has looked better than Z)
Borgman- Zaitsev (guessing Borgman better than Hainsey, Z has to go)
lineup giving BZ sheltered minutes playing with better forwards.
The biggest problem with our defence is our coach, who insists on playing a totally washed up player in Hainsey significant minutes.
Seriously, doing this would improve our D without calling up Lily or trading.
Now, I think Lily will be playing by the end of the season. Without the mono he would have been top ten, maybe top 5 in the draft, and no one would question his shot at the NHL. And I think he will be there.

 

[glucker]

Bingo. Our defence is sketchy as is, remove Gardiner from the equation and we have to hope Liljegren develops real quick just to get back to square one.

The way Jake has played this season, there isn’t much to replace.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The way Jake has played this season, there isn’t much to replace.

I'm confident he'll be better.

 

[Big Cactus]

We need to wait for them. Especially the way our salary cap will be allocated towards our top players. The only way we’ll be able to survive is to have cheap affordable young players either on their ELC or second contract. That’s Dubas’ Hardest job IMO; figuring out how to surround our stars with capable depth (ex. Pittsburgh, Washington)

 

[bluumax]

Im sure Caps fans asked the same question with regards to Carlson and Alzner a fair few seasons ago- player development and team development take time

 

[Spirit of 67]

If we want a long window to compete, we have to wait.

 

[Kazparov]

Leafs need to have younger, controlable, cheap players coming in on ELC contracts.

Unless you're trading them for other players on cheap, controlable ELCs then forget it

 

[gravyface]

There are not a lot of trade candidates out there. Go take a look at Cap Friendly's new filter feature (under Players > Free Agents, but you can select Active Players) and filter on RHD, 20+ minutes TOI, Age 22-25, and there just isn't a ton out there.

Stay the course, draft, develop. Lilly and Sandy are a couple of years out, maybe even next year in our bottom pairing for Lilly. Stralman would be a useful stop-gap UFA signing if we have the space, plus we still have Borgman/Rosen/Holl who need long looks.

The forward group needs to buy into the system; that's an ongoing struggle with offensive, talented kids. It takes a while for that to sink in, that they can't fly the zone and hope Gardiner can connect on a stretch pass every play. They need to be in a support position to help with the transition, and like Babs said, if you play a heavy game, cycle, and keep the puck in the other end of the rink, you don't have to play D, you don't have to get plastered on a relentless forecheck.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I've championed Gardiner a few times here, but with respect to replenishing position from within the organization, aren't we better positioned to address what Gardiner brings with Liljegren and/or Sandin than we are to replace what Nylander brings?

We have already replaced Nylander with Kapanen. We do not have any insight as to whether Liljegren or Sandin will be good enough to replace Gardiner. We cannot just assume that these guys will be ready to play 22-25 minutes a night and produce 50+ points next season or the following season.

 

[gravyface]

We have already replaced Nylander with Kapanen. We do not have any insight as to whether Liljegren or Sandin will be good enough to replace Gardiner. We cannot just assume that these guys will be ready to play 22-25 minutes a night and produce 50+ points next season or the following season.

Wait, what?

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

odd defensive gaff?
as in few and far between.

Do you know why the Oilers are terrible? Because they do not have a defensman that can move the puck. Im not sure people understand how important puck moving defensman are to the defensive side of the game. If you cannot move the puck down the ice with possession, you are simply not going to exit your zone. Its a joke that we feel like Jake Gardiner is the only defenseman to make mistakes defensively. Shane Ghostibhere, John Carlsson, Erik Karlsson, Kris Letang, Tyson Barrie, Keith Yandle, John Klingberg, are all guys that are raved about because of their offensive play, yet all of them are probably worse defensively then Gardiner. We need to appreciate what Jake Gardiner is, and understand how difficult it is to be a top 4 defenseman in the national hockey league.

Fact* Did you know that 15 teams in the NHL didnt have a defenseman that scored 50 or more points? Doesnt that tell you something?

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Wait, what?

Have you watched the last 7 games? Kapanen has been playing wing with Matthews and has 8 points in those games

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I disagree. I think the Leafs have been terrible. They managed to go 6-3 because they had a sky-high shooting percentage, predominantly against some really weak teams. Matthews' line is so bad at getting out of their own zone that the opposing goalie could take a nap.

The Leafs have played 1 bad game against St.Louis. SO lets assume the leafs have been terrible. Laughable.

 

[Bluelines]

With the Leafs current core of players can management afford to wait for Tim Liljegren and Rasmus Sandin to develop and come into the lineup or should they be looking to make a move for a proven player?

Of course there is the chance that one or both of them don't develop into NHL players. Also, Jake Gardiner's contract is up at the end of this year and a decision needs to be made about him.

What do the Leafs do regarding their defense?

So to get an impact d-man they have to trade either roster players or future roster players/picks?

So one option is to deal away our future the other is to deal away our present?

To repeat Babcock, Lou, Shanny, Dubas, the goal is to be a successful team long term. In the grand scheme of LONG term , this year sets up long term.

If we don't win the cup this year, whichwe wont, we have many more years that follow to be a better team. Lilly, Sandin are supposedly on their way and both project to be legit defenders, if that is the case we have Rielly, Dermott, Lily, Sandin, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Andy as our core for the next 5 to 8 years. That is pretty good.

IMO if the goal is to be good every year for the next decade, we can't afford not to be patient.

The goal is always to be better tomorrow WITHOUT jeopardizing the long term health of the franchise.

This years team is what it is, we don't fix today and forget tomorrow.

 

[Bluelines]

The Leafs have played 1 bad game against St.Louis. SO lets assume the leafs have been terrible. Laughable.

TBH they have played one good game this year and have had A LOT of puck luck.