Can the Leafs afford to wait for Liljegren and Sandin?

DanM

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
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Remind me to NEVER ask a Sabre fan about Dahlin.

I literally asked about him, how he was adjusting, and if they felt he would be ok developing in the NHL, as many teenage Dmen have found it difficult.

I of course praised him and didn't come off rude at all.

That is one sensitive bunch over there.

I actually meant no offence, was just curious..
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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For decades, this team traded away youth for a win now mentality, and it cost them badly.

Now that they are finally good, is this even a serious question?

Of course they can afford to bloody wait. This team isn't trying to win a cup this season, but to challenge over several seasons.

They aren't winning one this season regardless - they aren't close yet.

Well I for one absolutely think we can win this season and I think we should absolutely be trying to get a Dman to help now. I also think we shouldn't count on Liljegren and Sandin to put us over the top as even if they can do it, we're likely waiting a couple of years for that to happen. I think our window is huge, if we're lucky it could be a decade+. That doesn't mean we should be content to waste the first couple of years of that window though.

It's a fine line to walk - win now vs win later. We should be trying to do both which means difficult decisions will need to be made. I don't think we should be looking to trade our top 2 D prospects for help now but I also think that if we can make a deal to improve our team now, it's not a deal breaker if that means we get a bit older at the same time.
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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Well I for one absolutely think we can win this season and I think we should absolutely be trying to get a Dman to help now. I also think we shouldn't count on Liljegren and Sandin to put us over the top as even if they can do it, we're likely waiting a couple of years for that to happen. I think our window is huge, if we're lucky it could be a decade+. That doesn't mean we should be content to waste the first couple of years of that window though.

It's a fine line to walk - win now vs win later. We should be trying to do both which means difficult decisions will need to be made. I don't think we should be looking to trade our top 2 D prospects for help now but I also think that if we can make a deal to improve our team now, it's not a deal breaker if that means we get a bit older at the same time.

I don't.
Not good enough in our own end. Not enough depth on the blueline. Too soft.
I know everyone falls in love with our elite forward skill, with good reason, but you need more than that to win in the post-season.
I don't think the Leafs have enough qualities needed to win 4 rounds in the post-season.

And it's not a fine line at all - winning now = being all in now, and trading your youth/picks.

Winning later = continuing down the same path of development and drafting.

I don't think the Leafs are in a position to start throwing out youthful assets to try and win now.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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I don't.
Not good enough in our own end. Not enough depth on the blueline. Too soft.
I know everyone falls in love with our elite forward skill, with good reason, but you need more than that to win in the post-season.
I don't think the Leafs have enough qualities needed to win 4 rounds in the post-season.

And it's not a fine line at all - winning now = being all in now, and trading your youth/picks.

Winning later = continuing down the same path of development and drafting.

I don't think the Leafs are in a position to start throwing out youthful assets to try and win now.

I get where you're coming from and you might be right. On the other hand, Boston has those things that we're missing and yet we almost beat them in the spring despite us playing nowhere near our best game. Now we flipped JVR and Bozak for Tavares and all our kids are a year older, I think there's enormous potential there that could just click at any moment.

No point in arguing about it, we'll see what happens.
 

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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Management better not rush any of our prospects onto our Leafs. Let's not ruin anyone.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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Yes, they can.

I think we need to get around the idea that this team is being built for multiple cup windows some of our core players. Guys like Sandin and Lily will be pivotal in ensuring that the Leafs can be competitive by developing them properly and bringing them up on cheap ELC's.

The offense may not be as high octane, but the defense can improve vastly if these two become solid top 4 d-men.
 
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BigBlu

Registered User
Oct 15, 2013
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we know where our cap is, that is why Gards walks, we can't carry him at 6.5/7m per, we just can't

This was my prediction THE MOMENT we signed Marleau. Was sneered at. "We have 3 capologists on staff", what would a stupid civilian know....

Now, getting rid of Gards might barely do it..... Thank goodness Reilly is on something of a long deal so the cap-raises can catch up to our talent.

(But you're right. Gards is gone. Say goodbye. It's the only way)
 
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Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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I haven't had the opportunity to watch the Marlies yet this year.

I see Liljegren with SIX shots on goal. Borgman has 22, Subban has 17, Rosen has 18, Nielsen has 10.

Rosen, Subban and Borgman have as many, if not more points than him.

Is Liljegren not being used enough in offensive situations, to stifle his numbers this badly?
 
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Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,212
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Sign a short term top pair defenseman? Sounds easy.

Leafs cannot afford to lose Gardiner. people around here are so fickle. The guy logs big minutes and is a stud offensively. I'd take his production over the odd defensive gaf any day.

odd defensive gaff?
as in few and far between.
:laugh:
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin/Backstrom have won the last three Cups, and all were in the league for more than 10 years during that span. Before that it was Toews/Kane/Keith/Seabrook in their 8th-10th years in the league.

Our window isn't just the next 2-3 years. Our window can legitimately be 8-10+ years long, as long as we manage our assets well. There are trades for immediate help that are good value and make sense (e.g. I think Calgary got Hamilton for very solid value. If we could add a 22 year old proven top 4 RHD with legit top pairing upside for a mid 1st + 2nd, that's a good trade). But there are also a ton of trades that are just throwing assets away for very very marginal upgrades (i.e. 90% of trade deadline deals) or just way too risky (e.g. Ottawa's trade for Duchene; our trade for Kessel, etc).

So I'm not against trading picks/prospects for immediate help, but it's really got to be a move that makes both short and long-term. If it's strictly a short-term move like a rental, I don't like moving 2nd rounders to upgrade our 4th line as an example if you look at the Boyle/Plekanec trades.
 

Luminiferous

Registered User
Oct 11, 2018
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Cringe question. I mean, a year or two ago the Leafs were slumming it. No matter what, you let these players develop. There is no other option.

Any expectations outside of securing a playoff spot and scoring tons of goals would be ridiculous.

Let time flow and the team to age together, parts added. 10+ years of goodness is incoming.
 

baton elevated

One Man Gang
Jun 4, 2009
1,321
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For decades, this team traded away youth for a win now mentality, and it cost them badly.

Now that they are finally good, is this even a serious question?

Of course they can afford to bloody wait. This team isn't trying to win a cup this season, but to challenge over several seasons.

They aren't winning one this season regardless - they aren't close yet.
I agree with you that they aren't close. Last year I stated they were at least 3 years away from contention. Having said this management still traded 2 second round draft picks for rentals. That in my mind was a mistake, especially for Pleks. For Boyle I can accept it because we were trying to get the youngsters in to the show for the first time.
not sure what we have in Lily yet but early indications haven't left an impression with me . He is a couple of years away in my point of view
 

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
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I haven't had the opportunity to watch the Marlies yet this year.

I see Liljegren with SIX shots on goal. Borgman has 22, Subban has 17, Rosen has 18, Nielsen has 10.

Rosen, Subban and Borgman have as many, if not more points than him.

Is Liljegren not being used enough in offensive situations, to stifle his numbers this badly?
He’s still figuring it out, he’s just a kid. We actually have people thinking he can be this year’s Dermott, which simply ignores reality. If you don’t subscribe to this notion he’s close you’re against him somehow it seems, when really he’s developing as many of us have said from day one, it’s a process, he’s making progress, but he isn’t near NHL ready. Again, his start confirms the “let him bake” development model.

If he makes a decent push next camp I’ll be ecstatic, right on track. Looking forward to watching him mature, he has amazing tools, now it’s getting the toolbox to a pro level. Anyways...
 

Carltons Cup

Let's Do This..
Feb 22, 2018
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There's absolutely no need to rush them. Let them develop. We've rushed defensemen before, see:

Al Iafrate
Luke Richardson
Drake Berehowsky
 
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stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
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He’s still figuring it out, he’s just a kid. We actually have people thinking he can be this year’s Dermott, which simply ignores reality. If you don’t subscribe to this notion he’s close you’re against him somehow it seems, when really he’s developing as many of us have said from day one, it’s a process, he’s making progress, but he isn’t near NHL ready. Again, his start confirms the “let him bake” development model.

If he makes a decent push next camp I’ll be ecstatic, right on track. Looking forward to watching him mature, he has amazing tools, now it’s getting the toolbox to a pro level. Anyways...

Of course he's figuring it out, he is a teenager in one of best leagues in the world. We also have people that felt he had a "lackluster camp, which as you "ignores reality". If you feel he is close to NHL ready, you have people taking shots(this is your style).
His stat doesnt confirm anything. If stats was the measure, Dermott shoulnt have been called up.
At least you got your weekly hate on Lilly post today.
Anyways...
 

TheScandal89

Registered User
Jun 26, 2016
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We probably can but i wouldn't be surprised if they made a move involving one of them to strengthen the right side now, potentially to shift hainsey to 3rd pair right side.

Arguably 3 of our 4 best defenceman in my eyes are our on our left side. Not saying its gonna be some #1 D man but just a top 4 kinda defender.
 

Lightsol

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Which is why i feel the time to trade Nylander is now. Acquiring top four defensman of Jake Gardiners calibre is next to impossible. The money on this team needs to be dispersed among the offence and defense. Guys like Kapanen, Grundstrom, Bracco, Brooks, Timashov, will have to fill in the gaps. Its clear as day that the Leafs defense is the issue. Removing Gardiner does absolutely nothing but set this team back. We have seen what happens when we lose Nylander, and its not bad at all.

Trade Nylander for young futures, that havnt yet broken into the league. Buys us some time to develop some defense and keep the current defense core together. There are teams licking their chops to get at either Gardiner or Nylander. Losing Gardiner for nothing, hurts a hell of a lot more then losing Nylander for some quality assets.
If this f***ing team trades Nylander to keep Jake f***ing Gardiner, I'm done.
 
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