Can Sullivan Coach Stars?

[ChaosAgent]

It would greatly help the collective fanbase if people could remember back farther than 3 f***ing months before opening their mouths

Hockey coach is not a "let's look at your entire body of work across your tenure" position. It's a what-have-ya-done-for-me-lately. There's a reason why shelf lives are so short and most of the time the team just hires another guy who was fired somewhere else.

The entire body or work across your tenure is much more impactful to your legacy than your immediate employment.

 

[Peat]

Yes, he can work with what he has...however, this team has gone from looking for skilled players to help our other skilled players to looking for forecheckers with little skill...and that’s on him because the GM is going along with what he wants to play....so I would say, like a lot of other coaches who were fourth line plugs in their careers, he has little patience for skill and prefers pluggers...

Zucker, Marleau and Sheary are forecheckers with little skill? Wut?


Look. There is only one rational question about whether Sully should be here, and that is whether the locker room has got so locked into "the stars will do it" and "we win by scoring goals" that it can't function any other way when the stars are here, and that no coach can actually change that, and the only thing left is a giant shock like firing a very successful coach. And, well, maybe.

But everything else? Proven. He can do everything we want. What he wants helps our stars. What he wants is how to win. If the locker room is really completely stuck in this weird glitch then so be it, but let's see how it goes a little before saying anything hasty. At this point last season everyone was laughing at how CBJ had spent so big only to wreck it all and miss the playoffs, and ask Tampa how that ended up...

Hockey coach is not a "let's look at your entire body of work across your tenure" position. It's a what-have-ya-done-for-me-lately. There's a reason why shelf lives are so short and most of the time the team just hires another guy who was fired somewhere else.

The entire body or work across your tenure is much more impactful to your legacy than your immediate employment.

What Sully has done for us lately is take a season that by all rights should be lost and turn it into a solid playoff position. This isn't a lets look at his tenure thing, this is a lets remember this guy was the Jack Adams forerunner a month ago and still might win it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

What Sully has done for us lately is take a season that by all rights should be lost and turn it into a solid playoff position. This isn't a lets look at his tenure thing, this is a lets remember this guy was the Jack Adams forerunner a month ago and still might win it.

Yes.

1) We may lose that solid playoff position. We are a bottom-5/bottom-10 team in the league right now.
2) If we get bombed again in the first round, do we just blame it on Jake's absence and assume that we'll go into future years with our stars 100% healthy?

Because I think if you added the collective probability of those 2 things up I think it's well north of 50%. Would love to be wrong.

 

[Andy99]

Zucker, Marleau and Sheary are forecheckers with little skill? Wut?


Look. There is only one rational question about whether Sully should be here, and that is whether the locker room has got so locked into "the stars will do it" and "we win by scoring goals" that it can't function any other way when the stars are here, and that no coach can actually change that, and the only thing left is a giant shock like firing a very successful coach. And, well, maybe.

But everything else? Proven. He can do everything we want. What he wants helps our stars. What he wants is how to win. If the locker room is really completely stuck in this weird glitch then so be it, but let's see how it goes a little before saying anything hasty. At this point last season everyone was laughing at how CBJ had spent so big only to wreck it all and miss the playoffs, and ask Tampa how that ended up...



What Sully has done for us lately is take a season that by all rights should be lost and turn it into a solid playoff position. This isn't a lets look at his tenure thing, this is a lets remember this guy was the Jack Adams forerunner a month ago and still might win it.

I don’t think our top 6 is good enough with Jake out...Kahun was a better, more skilled player than what we got in return...imo we’ve lost skill from our Cup runs from the forwards...for whatever reason, and we’ve gone thru this last year with him, players can’t or will not play his system consistently...I personally think it takes a lot of effort that our best skilled players can’t do anymore, and we don’t have enough skill around them to make up for the mistakes...I’ve said elsewhere that if he was truly a good coach, he’d make some adjustments to how they play so there aren’t so many giveaways and mistakes, versus trying to get guys to buy in to how he wants them to play first and foremost...I’m not seeing a lot of adaptation...

 

[Peat]

Yes.

1) We may lose that solid playoff position. We are a bottom-5/bottom-10 team in the league right now.
2) If we get bombed again in the first round, do we just blame it on Jake's absence and assume that we'll go into future years with our stars 100% healthy?

Because I think if you added the collective probability of those 2 things up I think it's well north of 50%. Would love to be wrong.

What may happen doesn't obliviate what has happened and right now the recent past contains a hell of a lot more good than bad. If it runs out, talk about it then. Bad month? They happen to everyone and its not really a good reason to get heavy about the future.

I don’t think our top 6 is good enough with Jake out...Kahun was a better, more skilled player than what we got in return...imo we’ve lost skill from our Cup runs from the forwards...for whatever reason, and we’ve gone thru this last year with him, players can’t or will not play his system consistently...I personally think it takes a lot of effort that our best skilled players can’t do anymore, and we don’t have enough skill around them to make up for the mistakes...I’ve said elsewhere that if he was truly a good coach, he’d make some adjustments to how they play so there aren’t so many giveaways and mistakes, versus trying to get guys to buy in to how he wants them to play first and foremost...I’m not seeing a lot of adaptation...

That's a whole different ballpark to what you said. You said he was behind us only getting grinders. That hasn't happened. Maybe the top 6 isn't good enough with Jake out but that's not due to Sully saying "Hey, screw skill, get me only forecheckers". We got skill. We added a hell of a lot more skill overall than what we had going into the deadline.

And why would you start trying to adapt from a system the team was playing successfully not that long ago when you know its a system that wins cups? It's not like it's a system or ask that's radically different from most of the other fast teams that'll be looking to win the Cup. Not like every other team around hasn't had guys looking like they couldn't play a system shortly after or before they showed they could either.

 

[Pens x]

What Sully has done for us lately is take a season that by all rights should be lost and turn it into a solid playoff position. This isn't a lets look at his tenure thing, this is a lets remember this guy was the Jack Adams forerunner a month ago and still might win it.

Hahaha you really think he can still win the Jack Adams?!

 

[ChaosAgent]

What may happen doesn't obliviate what has happened and right now the recent past contains a hell of a lot more good than bad. If it runs out, talk about it then. Bad month? They happen to everyone and its not really a good reason to get heavy about the future.

It isn't a bad month. It's now going on two-and-a-half. The team was winning in spite of itself (and largely thanks to Murray and Jarry) in January.

And then you add in how 2019 cratered and it doesn't paint a pretty picture of the recent past at all. Even if this team went Icarus from October 2019 through Christmas and Sully played a big role.

 

[Pens x]

This message board has morphed back into the Bylsma days, post-cup. It was so obvious that he lost the team, but people continued to defend him because he won a cup.

There is nothing else we can do this late in the season. We gave him a mulligan after a total failure of a season last year. We can’t give him another pass this year.

 

[Andy99]

And why would you start trying to adapt from a system the team was playing successfully not that long ago when you know its a system that wins cups? It's not like it's a system or ask that's radically different from most of the other fast teams that'll be looking to win the Cup. Not like every other team around hasn't had guys looking like they couldn't play a system shortly after or before they showed they could either.

Because they either can’t play it anymore after the grind of the season or they don’t have confidence in it...the players aren’t working together...his system has a lot of flexibility built into it to read the play and players can’t find that synchronicity.... he has to make alterations....

Teddy Blueger blames 'attitude, work ethic' for Penguins' slide

 

[Peat]

It isn't a bad month. It's now going on two-and-a-half. The team was winning in spite of itself (and largely thanks to Murray and Jarry) in January.

And then you add in how 2019 cratered and it doesn't paint a pretty picture of the recent past at all. Even if this team went Icarus from October 2019 through Christmas and Sully played a big role.

Winning is winning, and winning through good goaltending and generating quality chances is still winning.

And tbh, there was a lot of winning in 2019 too. 9th best point share percentage in the 2019 part of the season. Mainly thanks to a great March to bring it home after a pretty meh February...

 

[ChaosAgent]

And tbh, there was a lot of winning in 2019 too. 9th best point share percentage in the 2019 part of the season. Mainly thanks to a great March to bring it home after a pretty meh February...

Except when it mattered. We got stomped.

Not every year you fail to win the Cup is a failure. But last year was a failure. And this year is shaping up to be an epic failure.

Sully is a good coach and Rutherford is a good GM...sometimes...but it's easier to swap them than swap half the roster. Although I think Rutherford would enjoy swapping half the roster on his way out.

 

[Darren McCord]

Sullivan is a good coach. But I just don't know if he is the coach for this team right now. I don't think he should be fire, but the coaching staff has issues that need fixed. I would honestly try to get Recchi out of there.

Sullivan reminds me of torts. They can get gold out of nothing but struggle when its a work ethic issue. Sullivan has a great system and style for hardworking players who give it all. But he is struggling to get guys with natural skill going.

 

[BHD]

He can, yes. But ours may be tuning him out.

Yeah, I'm starting to think this is the case.

Rutherford should pull a Lou and promote Velluci with a couple games left.

 

[Beauner]

Hockey coach is not a "let's look at your entire body of work across your tenure" position. It's a what-have-ya-done-for-me-lately. There's a reason why shelf lives are so short and most of the time the team just hires another guy who was fired somewhere else.

The entire body or work across your tenure is much more impactful to your legacy than your immediate employment.

2 months ago this team was top 5 in the league. But sure yeah now he should be fired

 

[Darren McCord]

2 months ago this team was top 5 in the league. But sure yeah now he should be fired

The question is what do you do to right the ship. If Sully starts making adjustment than awesome. But what if he doesn't. What if he keeps putting the same lineup out there with the same lines and they keep losing. 2 - 8 in the last ten. If they finish that way they aren't making playoffs. columbus is only 5 its out. We also play carolina 3 more times. They owned us today.

 

[The Greatest 101]

2 months ago this team was top 5 in the league. But sure yeah now he should be fired

Idiots can coach this team when everyone is on hot streaks.

 

[ChaosAgent]

2 months ago this team was top 5 in the league. But sure yeah now he should be fired

This team has played horribly since the New Year and now has the results to match. It's impressive how badly the players have failed to where major shakeups were needed. Like, when we protected the pick in the Zucker trade I thought it was a joke. Now it's looking more likely to be a reality.

If we don't get to a game 6 of the first round at least, multiple heads have got to roll. Those could be GMs, coaches, or players we hold dear. Otherwise it really is the late DB years all over again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Better question...

"Can Sullivan coach when he can't have his stars bail him out?"

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Idiots can coach this team when everyone is on hot streaks.

That is 100% the issue with the team, when the stars are on, the warts with the coaching staff are hidden with some heavy cover-up until it isn't and then it's "oh the stars are just coasting."

 

[cygnus47]

Yeah look I was off Sully last season but he managed to get guys engaged until now. I'll give him the rest of the season before I make a final judgement but IMO this should be his last chance. It's not about whether we win, but whether he can get the guys to care when it matters. He has failed to do that the last 2 seasons. He could be the perfect coach but if the guys aren't listening, then it won't work. We can't replace the whole team.

 

[Night Shift]

I really like Sullivan but understand if it's time because "they need a new voice" or whatever the issue is that warrants a new staff. But for the love beat Bylsmas record first before changes are made

 

[EpiPen]

I couldn't really see him in Dallas coaching The Stars

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

How do people still pine for Tocchet after what he’s done in AZ?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

How do people still pine for Tocchet after what he’s done in AZ?

Same reason JR/Sully wanted Sheary back, probably.

 

[Coastal Kev]

2 months ago this team was top 5 in the league. But sure yeah now he should be fired

11 months ago they were swept by Isles and averaged .5 gpg.

With a lineup that was pretty healthy at the time.