Can someone tell me what our defensive scheme is?

Blanick

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I re-watched the Chicago and Anaheim games and noticed something about our system. It is 3-2 zone to man on man. It seems like the center always stays in middle while the wingers challenge the points and along the boards in a man to man. If the opposing player moves the puck below the dots the winger disengages and joins the zone coverage while the corresponding defenseman breaks from the zone coverage and picks up the man and vice versa when the puck is moved out high again. As you can tell this is causing a lot of confusion and leaving large gaps in the middle of the ice. This is why a team like Chicago who rotates players into different positions in the offensive zone seems like they are being given free ice. I hate these kinds of defensive systems as I feel they are over complicated and rarely work at professional levels.

If Yeo wants to save his job he needs to revert back to a simple zone coverage like a "collapsing protect" where we flood the middle of the ice with bodies and let opposing teams have the shots from the outside and hope Allen is up to the task. Personally I am not a huge fan of this system either but it is very simple to play and has proved effective, though limited, over the years.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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Hitchcock used to talk about players having to get into the 'straight line' hockey and basically being willing to be physical to be a transition every year when the season starts. The idea was that during the off-season guys would get into some soft habits that they had to shake off. Some teams would struggle a little bit to get there.

I think a team like St Louis starting slowly can help really focus the team's attention-to-detail and intensity of effort. The desire to be physical, to do whatever is necessary to win the one on one battles, those are things we should see visible manifest over the next few games if there is any hope for this crew at all. There shouldn't be a game the next couple weeks where the Blues don't look like the hungrier team.
 
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MissouriMook

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What's ailing the Blues defense? An ex-NHL defenseman...

Great breakdown of what the Blues defense is doing.
That's actually a great read, and it left me with two thoughts.

1. This "ex-NHL defensemen" seems to acknowledge what most of us have been talking about since the season started - Bouwmeester has been awful.

2. As I was trying to figure out who this mystery "ex-NHL defenseman" might be it occurred to me that we have Larry ****ing Robinson on our payroll. How have we not deferred to him to help us figure this out!
 
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Blanick

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That's actually a great read, and it left me with two thoughts.

1. This "ex-NHL defensemen" seems to acknowledge what most of us have been talking about since the season started - Bouwmeester has been awful.

2. As I was trying to figure out who this mystery "ex-NHL defenseman" might be it occurred to me that we have Larry ****ing Robinson on our payroll. How have we not deferred to him to help us figure this out!


Yeah this may be favorite article posted by JR in the Athletic. This is the stuff that makes me happy I subscribed. Very well researched and love the individual breakdowns. The content of the article does scare the shit out of me though as it seems that Yeo seems dead set on running a straight up man, which the article labels as an outdated strategy. I do think a modified man could work in the NHL still but that is another argument for another day. Honestly I don't see a straight up man from our defense but that may be because it is such a mess that it is hard to tell exactly what they are doing. All that being said this article pretty clearly points to the defensive strategy being the issue and not the personnel, this is 100% on coach Yeo.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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This was a great example of an article we'd have never seen from JR before the Athletic.

Man, Yeo's post-game comments (and even the quotes in the article) just look painfully clueless.

I'd like to see a counterpoint opinion from someone who can explain the strategic advantage of mastering a system like this. Does it let you pressure the puck more constantly and force more turn-overs? Does it support a transition game better? Maybe its hopeless that it can succeed, but I also think there is a chance that this is a rough patch while guys learn how to play a system new to them. But I worry that its too easy for opponents to discern and exploit.
 
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EastonBlues22

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Can someone give a one or two sentence synopsis of the article's conclusion?

It'll give the board something concrete to talk about, and it might prod some of those that are curious for the supporting reasoning to pony up for a subscription.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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Can someone give a one or two sentence synopsis of the article's conclusion?

It'll give the board something concrete to talk about, and it might prod some of those that are curious for the supporting reasoning to pony up for a subscription.
The Blues are playing man to man in their own zone, leading to a lot of chasing the play (and inability for defensemen to block shots) which is an obsolete system in an era where clutch/grab can't happen.

They are playing a 2-3 zone in the neutral zone leading to a forward backing in like a defenseman, but with predictably poor gap closure from the forward. This results in large spaces for the opponent to enter the zone and putting the defenders in a bad spot where they are chasing the play from the outset.

There was something about why they're having trouble clearing the zone, but I didn't follow that as well.

The quotes and analysis include several specific examples with video clips, broken down by an anonymous "former NHL defenseman". There were also some painful examples of Bouwmeester doing something stupid, but to me it seems like he was trying to follow the system he's been coached. Also was not flattering to Schmaltz in the examples used.
 

MissouriMook

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Can someone give a one or two sentence synopsis of the article's conclusion?

It'll give the board something concrete to talk about, and it might prod some of those that are curious for the supporting reasoning to pony up for a subscription.
One of the most salient points to me is that teams stopped playing man-to-man defense 15 years ago when you could no longer get away with hooking an attacking player to stay on your man.
 
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EastonBlues22

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The Blues played a lot of straight up man against Chicago the first time, but they haven't been running that in the defensive zone all year. Well, maybe they have in theory, but the forwards out high have definitely not been playing that way consistently when the other team plays third man high or rotates their defensemen low in the zone.

I think there's more wrinkles to what the Blues have been doing at times than just that, but that's just my take on it based on how often guys are released by their defenders and how much confusion there is in general. If you're playing straight up man, you should not be releasing your guy very often, and it really shouldn't be very confusing as to who is marking who. That's one of the major reasons for playing man-to-man to begin with.

Anyway, I'm glad that there's someone out there breaking it down. I do agree strongly that the effectiveness of man-to-man has taken a hit in the modern area, and I'm pretty confident the Blues would look better if they ditched it.
 
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Falco Lombardi

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Nov 17, 2011
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Can someone give a one or two sentence synopsis of the article's conclusion?

It'll give the board something concrete to talk about, and it might prod some of those that are curious for the supporting reasoning to pony up for a subscription.

The Blues are playing man 2 man in the zone, something that's largely been abandoned since 04-05 lockout.

But what should really get people in is the visual breakdowns.
 
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PiggySmalls

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Mar 7, 2015
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Yeo running a man 2 man system will be the death of him, just like it was when Hitch tried it. So I don't really give a shit, quicker we can go back to a zone system with a new HC the better.
 
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Blanick

Winter is coming
Sep 20, 2011
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The Blues are playing man to man in their own zone, leading to a lot of chasing the play (and inability for defensemen to block shots) which is an obsolete system in an era where clutch/grab can't happen.

They are playing a 2-3 zone in the neutral zone leading to a forward backing in like a defenseman, but with predictably poor gap closure from the forward. This results in large spaces for the opponent to enter the zone and putting the defenders in a bad spot where they are chasing the play from the outset.

There was something about why they're having trouble clearing the zone, but I didn't follow that as well.

The quotes and analysis include several specific examples with video clips, broken down by an anonymous "former NHL defenseman". There were also some painful examples of Bouwmeester doing something stupid, but to me it seems like he was trying to follow the system he's been coached. Also was not flattering to Schmaltz in the examples used.

This. While the article does take certain individuals to task (Bouw and Schmaltz mostly) it keeps rounding back to the "the system" being the problem. This is 100% on Yeo and the coaching staff.
 
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PiggySmalls

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Mar 7, 2015
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The quotes and analysis include several specific examples with video clips, broken down by an anonymous "former NHL defenseman". There were also some painful examples of Bouwmeester doing something stupid, but to me it seems like he was trying to follow the system he's been coached. Also was not flattering to Schmaltz in the examples used.

After reading the article and then listening to the podcast he is on, I'd say it is reasonable to say that Jamie Rivers is this "source". Not that I disagree with his assessment, I feel he hit many things on the head.


Edit: A little too copy and paste happy last night. Dang browser.
 
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EastonBlues22

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Nov 25, 2003
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After reading the article and then listening to the podcast he is on, I'd say it is reasonable to say that Jamie Rivers is this "source". Not that I disagree with his assessment, I feel he hit many things on the head.
If you read the article and then listen to the podcast he is on, it becomes pretty reasonable to say the source JR used was Jamie Rivers. Not that I disagree with his assessment, but
If you read the article and then listen to the podcast he is on, it becomes pretty reasonable to say the source JR used was Jamie Rivers. Not that I disagree with his assessment, but
A bit distracted?

Copy paste error?

Typing practice?

Micro-seizures?

Time loop?




I need to know.
 
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taylord22

Registered User
Mar 30, 2009
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My question is: why now? To not be a cookie cutter team? Or were there roster attributes (or lack there of) that led them down here?

Something I'm confused about, even after reading JR's article: Were we wanting to run a strict man to man LW Lock in the NZ and it has just (purposely?) leaked into the DZ? Seems like we've been reverting to an overload zone once a cycle is established...? But, I haven't had the heart to rewatch a game, so maybe I'm wrong...?
 
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mw2noobbuster

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Jun 28, 2016
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After reading the article and then listening to the podcast he is on, I'd say it is reasonable to say that Jamie Rivers is this "source". Not that I disagree with his assessment, I feel he hit many things on the head.
If you read the article and then listen to the podcast he is on, it becomes pretty reasonable to say the source JR used was Jamie Rivers. Not that I disagree with his assessment, but
If you read the article and then listen to the podcast he is on, it becomes pretty reasonable to say the source JR used was Jamie Rivers. Not that I disagree with his assessment, but
You okay there? xD.
 

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