Can Rathbone follow Fox?
- Thread starter VanJack
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Diversification
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Unlikely. Rathbone will need to play well in his own end and there isn't much evidence that he has that skillset ATM.
Fox played 3 full years at Harvard. With access to trainers and nutritionists and coaching. Rathbone spent another year in HS hockey. I doubt he is ready for the NHL.
I would not expect it.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Different circumstances.
He could be a difference maker, but we don't "need" another puck moving left handed D, and we have expectations of competing this year, where New York certainly didn't. I feel this gave Fox a lot of slack that Rathbone simply won't get if we just throw him into the league.
We also have Edler, Hughes, Schmidt (potentially on how the left/right side works out), Juolevi, Benn, Brisebois, Sautner and even Teves all fighting out for that third LHD spot, and we need stronger defensive play then I have seen, in limited amounts of seeing him play, from Rathbone. Benn has been a regular in the NHL for years, Brisebois and Sautner have some experience and know what is expected in the 3rd pairing role, and Juolevi and Teves have a headstart on working on play in their own zone and away from the puck.
He could be a difference maker, but we don't "need" another puck moving left handed D, and we have expectations of competing this year, where New York certainly didn't. I feel this gave Fox a lot of slack that Rathbone simply won't get if we just throw him into the league.
We also have Edler, Hughes, Schmidt (potentially on how the left/right side works out), Juolevi, Benn, Brisebois, Sautner and even Teves all fighting out for that third LHD spot, and we need stronger defensive play then I have seen, in limited amounts of seeing him play, from Rathbone. Benn has been a regular in the NHL for years, Brisebois and Sautner have some experience and know what is expected in the 3rd pairing role, and Juolevi and Teves have a headstart on working on play in their own zone and away from the puck.
Fox was more than NHL ready though. So say Rathbone isn't as good as Fox, that doesn't mean he's not NHL ready. US high schools with good sports programs are no slouch when it comes to training.
I’m referring to just this season. I doubt Rathbone is ready for the NHL. He has 60 or so ncaa games under his belt in 3 seasons since his draft year. This is a massive step up in competition.
He might be ready for the nhl but I would not bet on it.
I'm usually cautious/skeptical in this regard as well but it's not like we're pencilling him in as top 4 D so it doesn't matter too much. I don't think the number of ncaa games played is big issue. Is there really a difference between a player who played ~60 games as opposed to ~70? Rathbone is at an age where talented Dmen could make the NHL and perform well. For example, Mario Ferraro from Rathbone's draft year spent the year with the Sharks last season.
I think that history has shown that if a player like Rathbone is on the path of develop into a top 4 NHL Dman, he should at least impress at training camp (if there is one). If he clearly doesn't look ready he's probably not as good as we hoped he would be.
I have no idea whether it was easier for Adam Fox to break in with the Rangers than it will be for Rathbone to crack the Canucks blueline.
But Rathbone is listed as being 10 pounds heavier, and based on the highlights of them playing together at Harvard, I'd say Rathbone looked to be a much better skater. And definitely looked better with his gap control, stepping up to dish out some stiff checks at the blueline.
But I guess that's why we have a training camp, to find out for sure.
But Rathbone is listed as being 10 pounds heavier, and based on the highlights of them playing together at Harvard, I'd say Rathbone looked to be a much better skater. And definitely looked better with his gap control, stepping up to dish out some stiff checks at the blueline.
But I guess that's why we have a training camp, to find out for sure.
Stat-wise, Rathbone had a slightly better (points per game) sophomore season at Harvard than
Fox's sophomore season. But Fox's third season, as a Harvard junior, was off the charts good.
Because Rathbone signed, he won't have a third season to match against Fox's, so we won't really
know how they compared as college players. Quinn Hughes's "third season" was the amazing rookie
NHL season we've just witnessed. Fox's impressive rookie NHL season was his "fourth season" so to speak.
It seems to me that Rathbone is more "toolsy" with his great skating and shot, while Fox is more cerebral
and has more of that X factor that Hughes has mentally. Speaking of Hughes, Rathbone had a better sophomore
ppg than Hughes did too, for whatever that's worth. The three of them had very similar second-year NCAA stats
when you adjust for games played. Rathbone had more goals, while the other two had more assists, again by small margins. Cale Makar's sophomore NCAA season was better than Hughes's and Rathbone's stat-wise, and he, of course, had an almost identical rookie NHL season to Hughes's, and he won the Calder.
Judging by their sophomore NCAA seasons, and also by their similar size (three are listed at 5'11" while Hughes
is 5'10"), with ballpark weights (Rathbone's the heaviest, 190, but IMO all these metrics are likely wrong by now),
and also judging by the brilliant success of Fox, Hughes, and Makar as rookie pros, it would seem that Rathbone could fit nicely into this elite class of young D. Even if he's somewhat behind the others, that would be a fantastic result. Edler is in decline and has injury problems, while Juolevi hasn't yet proved that he doesn't have injury problems, and he clearly lacks Rathbone's elite skating. As others have mentioned, the big question is about
Rathbone's toolbox. He has the tools, no doubt about it. Tool-wise he seems to belong in the class of Fox,
Hughes, and Makar.
If Rathbone learns how to play fairly well in his own end, he could be a great asset as a #2 LHD. Imagine
him in a year or two paired with Schmidt, Meyers, or Woo getting the puck up the ice at high speed for 18
minutes a night. Hughes, Schmidt, and Rathbone could give the Canucks relentless puck transport for
years to come, a decade each for the two younger ones. And Rathbone has a cannon shot along with
his elite wheels. If his defensive awareness can be trained up to be "good enough"--and that's the big
question--we could have another young star player to take some of the load off of Hughes, step in if Huggy
gets hurt, and enjoy watching as a regular member of our talented, similar-aged core.
Edit: I forgot about Johnny Marino, Rathbone's former Harvard teammate, who has made a very good NHL start with the Penguins despite not having nearly the offensive flash nor the stat lines of the four young NCAA D mentioned above. Marino's success must really give Rathbone confidence going forward. Finally, for whatever it's worth, judging from his TV interviews Rathbone is just a super good kid, friendly and well-spoken, with a great attitude to bring to the core group of young players he's joining.
Fox's sophomore season. But Fox's third season, as a Harvard junior, was off the charts good.
Because Rathbone signed, he won't have a third season to match against Fox's, so we won't really
know how they compared as college players. Quinn Hughes's "third season" was the amazing rookie
NHL season we've just witnessed. Fox's impressive rookie NHL season was his "fourth season" so to speak.
It seems to me that Rathbone is more "toolsy" with his great skating and shot, while Fox is more cerebral
and has more of that X factor that Hughes has mentally. Speaking of Hughes, Rathbone had a better sophomore
ppg than Hughes did too, for whatever that's worth. The three of them had very similar second-year NCAA stats
when you adjust for games played. Rathbone had more goals, while the other two had more assists, again by small margins. Cale Makar's sophomore NCAA season was better than Hughes's and Rathbone's stat-wise, and he, of course, had an almost identical rookie NHL season to Hughes's, and he won the Calder.
Judging by their sophomore NCAA seasons, and also by their similar size (three are listed at 5'11" while Hughes
is 5'10"), with ballpark weights (Rathbone's the heaviest, 190, but IMO all these metrics are likely wrong by now),
and also judging by the brilliant success of Fox, Hughes, and Makar as rookie pros, it would seem that Rathbone could fit nicely into this elite class of young D. Even if he's somewhat behind the others, that would be a fantastic result. Edler is in decline and has injury problems, while Juolevi hasn't yet proved that he doesn't have injury problems, and he clearly lacks Rathbone's elite skating. As others have mentioned, the big question is about
Rathbone's toolbox. He has the tools, no doubt about it. Tool-wise he seems to belong in the class of Fox,
Hughes, and Makar.
If Rathbone learns how to play fairly well in his own end, he could be a great asset as a #2 LHD. Imagine
him in a year or two paired with Schmidt, Meyers, or Woo getting the puck up the ice at high speed for 18
minutes a night. Hughes, Schmidt, and Rathbone could give the Canucks relentless puck transport for
years to come, a decade each for the two younger ones. And Rathbone has a cannon shot along with
his elite wheels. If his defensive awareness can be trained up to be "good enough"--and that's the big
question--we could have another young star player to take some of the load off of Hughes, step in if Huggy
gets hurt, and enjoy watching as a regular member of our talented, similar-aged core.
Edit: I forgot about Johnny Marino, Rathbone's former Harvard teammate, who has made a very good NHL start with the Penguins despite not having nearly the offensive flash nor the stat lines of the four young NCAA D mentioned above. Marino's success must really give Rathbone confidence going forward. Finally, for whatever it's worth, judging from his TV interviews Rathbone is just a super good kid, friendly and well-spoken, with a great attitude to bring to the core group of young players he's joining.
Last edited:
rypper
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Interesting that more than a few posters aren't ruling out Rathbone's ability to crack the Canucks lineup for the coming season.
I'm beginning to wonder if deep-down the Canucks brain-trust might be thinking the same thing. It could explain why--besides the money and term--they let both Tanev and Stecher walk this off-season. And why they didn't try harder to get Tryamkin under contract.
If Rathbone can bring the same offensive, puck rushing skills to another defensive pairing as Hughes, it could be huge for the Canucks. Having two d-pairings that can drive offense is a lot better than one and would give teams fits trying to defend it.
I'm beginning to wonder if deep-down the Canucks brain-trust might be thinking the same thing. It could explain why--besides the money and term--they let both Tanev and Stecher walk this off-season. And why they didn't try harder to get Tryamkin under contract.
If Rathbone can bring the same offensive, puck rushing skills to another defensive pairing as Hughes, it could be huge for the Canucks. Having two d-pairings that can drive offense is a lot better than one and would give teams fits trying to defend it.
I know I am repeating a couple of my previous posts already, have always seen Rathbone’s chance of making the lineup actually greater than Juolevi. Again, Adam Fox and John Marino has shown greater and deeper understandings of the game than any common fan expected. As much as we can question Rathbone may not adapt to NHL as smoothly as those two, why can’t we expect he also inherits the same kind of understanding from the Harvard programme??
I don’t see Rathbone being as good as Fox, and he certainly won’t be able to step right in to the NHL as a rookie and finish as a calder finalist. He has a lot less NCAA experience than Fox did when he made the NHL.
I’m always skeptical and look to temper expectations for prospects coming in, but I do have Rathbone as a potential break out candidate. The difference is I don’t think he’ll play a full 82 games, I think he’s going to play about 50 games this year and likely get about 20 points in those games.
I say that based on opportunity. Juolevi I feel is ahead of him on the depth charts, and we truly have to see what we have in Rafferty this year based on his age and AHL success. Injuries can of course change this, and his overall play could change it too; I mean this in the sense that when he gets a chance, if he just forces his way on to the line up by outplaying these guys, then sure.
Nice situation to be in with Rathbone, Juolevi, and Rafferty all seemingly being ready this year for at least a look in the big leagues.
I say that based on opportunity. Juolevi I feel is ahead of him on the depth charts, and we truly have to see what we have in Rafferty this year based on his age and AHL success. Injuries can of course change this, and his overall play could change it too; I mean this in the sense that when he gets a chance, if he just forces his way on to the line up by outplaying these guys, then sure.
Nice situation to be in with Rathbone, Juolevi, and Rafferty all seemingly being ready this year for at least a look in the big leagues.
Fatass
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Bone man will be our second best d man (behind Hughes) within the first 20 games. And he will absolutely, 100%, for certain be better than Fox.
NoRaise4Brackett
But Brackett!!!
Unless Rathbone has a great training camp where he excels on the defensive side of things and earns Green's trust, I don't see him making the team this year. I don't think Green will want 2 young LD's that don't PK. That is where Juolevi has the advantage, and with Edler only having 1 year left on his contract, it makes sense to try to groom OJ into the "hard minutes" LD that frees up Hughes to do his thing.
I'm really confident - at this point - that we'll see this next season on the left side:
Edler
Hughes
Juolevi
With Rathbone hopefully getting big minutes in all situations for our affiliate
I'm really confident - at this point - that we'll see this next season on the left side:
Edler
Hughes
Juolevi
With Rathbone hopefully getting big minutes in all situations for our affiliate
As a Harvard alum, I don't think the program is extra special in any way, but they do attract and recruit smart kids to play hockey. Because they've got an incredibly inclusive scholarship program for all students who need it, the kids' families can afford Harvard, so why not apply and see what happens?
In sum, the school's reputation attracts talented kids and their parents, and it's affordable to those who are admitted. There's probably a recruiting advantage because of the name and the scholarship program, and the kids tend to be reasonably clever. That's a pretty good recipe for finding the odd precocious defenseman.
I think this could be the best situation for Rathbone if there is an AHL season, and even more so if the Canucks move the Comets closer (Abby again maybe?). I see the Canucks focusing more on getting Juolevi, Sautner, and Rafferty NHL time this year and trying to get Rathbone in a bigger role with the Comets. Call up Rathbone for NHL time if he's playing well, with the hope he would be ready the following season. Tough to plan for any of this though as no one has a clue what is happening with any league next year.
Unless sea, Edm, Cal move their A teams up to places like Idaho, Oregon, Montana or something it makes little sense for the Canucks to be the line team up here rather than move their A team to California.
it would be awesome to be like Toronto, Philly, Chicago etc who have their A clubs in state. But logistically for playing games it doesn’t make sense.
for Rathbone, he has just 60 or so ncaa games under his belt whereas Fox had 90. Had Rathbone gone straight to the ncaa after his draft year then I would like his chances better of making the big club. But experience and playing time matter.
I would think that on paper the Canucks are hoping for Juolevi and Rafferty to make their squad with Benn as the veteran third pair guy. With Brisebois and Sautner as their two top guys to call up to fill in for injuries.
it would be awesome to be like Toronto, Philly, Chicago etc who have their A clubs in state. But logistically for playing games it doesn’t make sense.
for Rathbone, he has just 60 or so ncaa games under his belt whereas Fox had 90. Had Rathbone gone straight to the ncaa after his draft year then I would like his chances better of making the big club. But experience and playing time matter.
I would think that on paper the Canucks are hoping for Juolevi and Rafferty to make their squad with Benn as the veteran third pair guy. With Brisebois and Sautner as their two top guys to call up to fill in for injuries.
While I think Rathbone has a higher upside than Rafferty and Juolevi and ends up the best of the three, I think it’s highly optimistic to expect him to replicate the arc of Fox and Marino. It would be huge for the organization if he did but just because they played for Harvard doesn’t mean it’s the most likely scenario.
Yep Rathbone needs pro hockey time, meaning the Comets. I can hardly imagine the massive difference between facing the Yale Dip Sticks and the Vegas Golden Knights. It's true that Hughes and Fox etc managed a similar transition with flying colours, and Rathbone just might be up to that as well. He might surprise. But right now the Canucks don't need him, with Hughes and Edler entrenched on the left side, and the need to see at last what they've got in Juolevi. However, with Edler ageing and injury-prone, and Juolevi's robust good health possibly a stoner's dream, there are sure to be job opportunities opening up on the left side even before we win the Cup
