Can MLB save itself from oblivion?

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
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Sep 26, 2007
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Here in Boston we have a team that is 62-29 and there is little buzz over the Red Sox.

DAN SHAUGHNESSY
The Red Sox may be red-hot, but baseball is striking out in every way

Is it any surprise that MLB attendance is taking a hit? Twenty one of 30 teams are down from last year and baseball is on pace for its lowest total attendance since 2003.

Folks are staying away and who can blame them? The product is not keeping up with the times and it is not very good.

Here in baseball-savvy Boston, the Olde Towne Team is playing at a near-record pace, but it seems that local sports fans only want to talk about the Celtics and NBA free agency. Tom Brady and Julian Edelman. Try to find good baseball conversation. Spend an hour alternating between the Sports Hub and WEEI and take note of how little baseball conversation you hear. Unless there’s yet another caller bashing David Price, the Sox don’t generate much sports talk these days.

Baseball has become the sanctuary of senior citizens. Hardcore baseball fans are the same people who have land lines in their home and still read daily newspapers. Anybody seen my Sporting News?

Pace of play has made the game largely unwatchable on television. The estimable Tom Verducci recently put his stopwatch to work and calculated that the average time between balls in play is 3 minutes 45 seconds.

This is unacceptable. It is killing the sport. There is simply not enough action.


People still love baseball and it is supported well at the minor league level where a head of household can use their debit card to take the family to the game instead of a credit card.

Hockey and MLB share the same problem as one the local team is out of contention or eliminated there is no interest in the sport, while the NBA can market star power and the NFL is in another universe.

MLB attendance is down but that is more because so many teams are already out it with the biggest drop in Toronto. Miami is a disaster, Detroit is down and the White Sox are close to being irreverent.

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Fenway

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AL doesn't help. Your team is either very good and playoff bound or out of it. Been like that since June.

The irony in the AL is the 5th best team (Cleveland) is the only lock to win a division and avoid the Wild Card game.

Houston and Boston appear to have the easier schedules than Seattle and NYY but :dunno:

MLB now has everybody playing the 162nd game at the same time but it now goes head to head with the NFL

The last night of 2011 was magical - even if it was a nightmare for me



Oh and the sportswriter I quoted in the OP said this that night

 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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the Boston issue isnt about baseball itself.

fans are fed up with the ownership and after multiple seasons in a row of racking up regular season wins then get swept out in the 1st round.

2 straight years of 93-69 regular season, then 0-3 ALDS and 1-3 ALDS

just a matter of "fool me once"
 
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Dr Pepper

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Dec 9, 2005
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the Boston issue isnt about baseball itself.

fans are fed up with the ownership and after multiple seasons in a row of racking up regular season wins then get swept out in the 1st round.

2 straight years of 93-69 regular season, then 0-3 ALDS and 1-3 ALDS

just a matter of "fool me once"

Same could be said for Toronto, it's been a very forgettable season with injuries piling up, Donaldson all but certainly gone, and Osuna still stuck in legal limbo yet, somehow, eyeing a return to the Jays next month. :help:

Attendance has plummeted, predictably, after Rogers raised ticket prices after last season's dud. Can't say I'm surprised that greedy move has come back to bite them.
 

MikeCubs

Registered User
May 30, 2018
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Yawn..... Attendance is down because

1. April weather was a total disaster
2. Tanking(this you can't stop because the practice is so successful)
3. The Marlins are reporting actual ticket sales this year under new ownership
4. It's hard to have a quick rebuild because signing 30 year old plus free agents is usually a disaster in the post steroid era
 

New Jersey

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I can't speak on other markets, but any sports fan in the NYC Metro Area knows that if you turn on 101.9 or 98.7 when there's no game on the air, 75% chance they're talking about how the Baby Bombers are gripping the city and/or the Mets are a disaster.

Yankees also struggled at the gate a bit in April when the weather was atrocious and the team was .500. Since then, 40K+ on weeknights against bad teams have become the norm again.

tl;dr: baseball towns are still baseball towns and this is overblown.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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If you look at the team specific figures, you can see that the major notable declines occurred in cities where windows of opportunity have closed and/or teams are simply not competitive. I think with the new breed of baseball executives and baseball fans there's a lot less of the old smokescreen, where teams can spend money and sell phony competitiveness just to put butts in the seats. Owners, execs, media, fans..they tend to know now when a rebuild is there.

It's pure calculation that they don't lower the actual prices i.e. if you lower them during the lean years, you can't reach new highs as quickly in the fat years. The secondary market tends to take care of it anyway. You can go to a ball game for under 10 bucks in most markets where teams aren't 'on a run'.
 

Say Hey Kid

it's better to burn out than to fade awa
Dec 10, 2007
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Perception is reality. 2017-18 NHL regular season games on the NBC platforms averaged 417k viewers in the US, but no one here at HF will admit it's a niche sport in the US. I don't think MLB will ever fall that far in the US, but if it did, no one in this forum would admit it either. The NFL & the NBA rule in the US.
 

GarbageGoal

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Dec 1, 2005
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C'mon, the propaganda pushed on NESN doesn't get Boston fans excited????

I bet my right arm they have not mentioned once on that station that the Sox have the highest payroll in baseball. Not once. And I thought Dave Shmug O'Brien loved stats....
 

c9777666

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Aug 31, 2016
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The irony in the AL is the 5th best team (Cleveland) is the only lock to win a division and avoid the Wild Card game.

Houston and Boston appear to have the easier schedules than Seattle and NYY but :dunno:

MLB now has everybody playing the 162nd game at the same time but it now goes head to head with the NFL

The last night of 2011 was magical - even if it was a nightmare for me



Oh and the sportswriter I quoted in the OP said this that night



Why move game 162 back to Sunday? They wanted to get away from the NFL, they had it for two years in 2011-2012.... and go BACK to Sundays?
 

No Fun Shogun

34-38-61-10-13-15
May 1, 2011
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I won't deny that MLB has a lot of underlying problems, but I will say that the omens of the imminent collapse of the league's popularity have been written for about three decades now. Guess they'll eventually be right?
 

c9777666

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Aug 31, 2016
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In a way, it feels like there isn't that usual baseball buzz of summer.

Like, in past years, it seemed like baseball was always the hot button topic sport of June-July.

But the NBA has basically usurped all the buzz in recent years.

Which is a far cry from about a decade ago when baseball was hot and basketball was not.

I found this old SI article from July 2004, back when it seemed that baseball was doing so well and the NBA was the league that needed to save itself:

10 Reasons Why Baseball Is Back There's hope in San Diego, Cincinnati and, heck, even Tampa Bay--and that's just one explanation for why fans are flocking to the game again


The Yankees once upon a time felt larger than life"

Damn Yankees are box-office magic.

Fortified by the addition of baseball's best all-around player, Alex Rodriguez, the sport's preeminent franchise is spreading excitement and money around the game like never before.

The Yankees, who had the game's best record at week's end (47-26), have already sold a franchise-record 3.5 million tickets.

With a roster that includes 16 players who have been selected to All-Star Games--including six who have finished first, second or third in league MVP voting--the New York club is also on track to become the biggest road draw in baseball history (3.4 million), eclipsing the 2000 Reds, who attracted three million fans in Ken Griffey Jr.'s first tour of the National League.

At these rates the Yankees will displace the 1993 Rockies, who in their first season played before 7.17 million fans (including 4.48 million at home), as the most watched team in baseball history.
"I'd been around for nine years [with Seattle and Texas] and had never seen this type of intensity from the fans," Rodriguez says. "It's like being part of a traveling circus. It never stops."


Circus Arrives With Yankees

The New York Yankees arrived Friday in all their glory, looking every bit the part of baseball's glamour team at Dodger Stadium.
The buzz at Chavez Ravine was familiar to that of excitement stirred wherever the Yankee traveling All-Star show stops, interleague play having brought it to Los Angeles for the first regular-season series against the Dodgers.
Even the Yankees' former New York borough rivals expressed excitement about the sold-out weekend series, saying it doesn't get any bigger. Love them or hate them, the Yankees definitely entertain.

Now, it seems like the Golden State Warriors have become that larger than life super team.

It was when it seemed like you could name someone from every team.

Most casual fans can't name 2-3 players on the 2018 Oakland A's- a lot of people outside the Bay Area once upon a time knew Hudson-Mulder-Zito.

Feels like the NBA has basically sucked all the air out of the room in recent years.

The Show used to be a big hit. Now, it seems like The Show is on the hardwood instead of the diamond.

In less than 15 years, baseball went from boomng attendance to lagging attendance.
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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revenue sharing is the biggest issue.

it was set up with good intentions, small market teams can now afford big free agents and/or keep their own stars.

instead you have franchises using it as a form of welfare.

too many franchises are willing to have as little payroll as possible and are fine with sucking because they turn a profit once that revenue sharing check arrives.

these garbage teams, i.e. Miami, are killing attendance and ratings

there needs to be a rule put in place that either requires every dime of revenue sharing be spent on contracts or its forfeited...or somehow make it on a scale where the lower your payroll is, the less you get
 

MikeCubs

Registered User
May 30, 2018
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The reason Miami is doing what they are doing isn't because of revenue sharing. Loria left them with a totally gutted farm system. Miami had very little pitching both on the big league club and minors. By the time they rebuilt the system Stanton, Ozuna, Yelich would be too old given MLB's post steroid aging curves. That's why they did what they did. At the fan fest last winter fans begged Jeter to instead sign free agent pitchers to supplement Stanton etc... His response was Who? Jeter was right. Every free agent starter then other maybe Arrieta has been a bust. Darvish has been hurt and horrible. Lance Lynn, Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb have also been horrible. Even Arrieta has shaky peripherals/declining velocity/a lot of warning signs. Jeter was 100% right to do what he did. The Marlins were never going to win in Stanton's window and by the time he developed the pitching they'd be stuck win a 32/33 year old declining Stanton under contract for another 5 more years for big money.

Christian Yelich even admitted last spring that Jose Fernandez's death was the end of the Marlins window of contention with that group.

'Everything changed' with Marlins after Jose Fernandez died, says Christian Yelich
 
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Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
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The game is awful right now.
I constantly find myself wondering why I'm watching the game. Homerun, Strike Out or Ground Out into the shift seems to be what the game is all about these days.

fwiw, I'm 51. Stuck between the rotary phone and cell phone ages. Been a massive Jays and baseball fan in general my whole life. But it feels like a dead end relationship at this point.
 

MikeCubs

Registered User
May 30, 2018
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I think sabermetrics/steroid testing are the biggest issue other than this years early bad weather. I think they turn some casual fans off. Look at all the new things caused by sabermetrics.

1. Tanking. It's hard to explain to a casual fan who takes it season to season and don't see the big picture why you are trading a good player from a 75 win team that may only have a year or 2 of good production left.

2. The shift

3. Teams starting relievers(Tampa) This trend will spread since Tampa started doing this they have MLB's best ERA

4. No stolen bases(too risky)

5. No sacrifice bunts(not worth giving up outs according to sabermetrics)

6. Home run/strikeout/walk are the 3 true outcomes with sabermetrics.

The steroid testing leads to tanking since it becomes a contest on who can get the most good young players. Also the steroid testing leads to a lack of star power. Most players began their decline in their 30's with testing meaning players fade away fast. This kills excitement and makes players disposable. Look at all the talk in the NBA about where 33 year old Lebron James would sign. In baseball most fans/teams would be horrified of signing a 33 year old free agent(for good reason). With signing free agents now a bad thing mostly this kills the hot stove talk during winter thus less winter ticket sales. Look how last winter free agents didn't sign until spring training. There was no baseball talk all winter. Compare that to the last few weeks of NBA news.
 
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rangerssharks414

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Mar 9, 2010
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nope. The MLS is coming in hard and fast.

Yup, this is true. I don't think MLS would ever pass MLB, but I could definitely see the argument for going to an MLS game instead of an MLB game. You know about how long the match will last, and the crowd experience looks a lot better.

The NFL and NBA are obviously the top two in the U.S..

I also think a huge part in the attendance plummeting is that people would much rather watch on television than pay outrageous prices for tickets/beer/food/souvenirs/parking. TVs keep getting better and better, while the cost to go to a game keeps going up. I personally hate going to sporting events.
 
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Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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Yup, this is true. I don't think MLS would ever pass MLB, but I could definitely see the argument for going to an MLS game instead of an MLB game. You know about how long the match will last, and the crowd experience looks a lot better.

The NFL and NBA are obviously the top two in the U.S..

I also think a huge part in the attendance plummeting is that people would much rather watch on television than pay outrageous prices for tickets/beer/food/souvenirs/parking. TVs keep getting better and better, while the cost to go to a game keeps going up. I personally hate going to sporting events.
4 hrs of you're life gone for a live event and in a big city it's 5-6, and you can't even go a weekday anymore.
 
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robertmac43

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Does anyone have numbers on season ticket sales in the MLB? Have they been on the decline?
 

AtlantaWhaler

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Jul 3, 2009
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I also think a huge part in the attendance plummeting is that people would much rather watch on television than pay outrageous prices for tickets/beer/food/souvenirs/parking. TVs keep getting better and better, while the cost to go to a game keeps going up. I personally hate going to sporting events.

This. Not just baseball, but it's across the board. TV has gotten way better and in turn, owners are trying to rival that with billion $$ stadiums. Unfortunately, tickets also cost a billion $$ and it's forcing anyone without a corporate hookup away.
 

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