Player Discussion Can Lucic bounce back? Part II

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It’s sucks to do to a great guy and leader but I think if we press box him he will eventually have enough and he will go along with LTIR back problems. If he goes with it I say the org should reward him with a coaching or media job in our system. It’s not his fault he’s lost his mojo it happens to all players.

This "degenerative back condition" has kept him out for exactly 0 games. I am not sure how he can be put on LTIR for something that isn't an issue today but probably will be when he is in his 60's.

 

[MoontoScott]

Hindsight is 20-20 but every move you make should have a risk analysis attached to it.

Signing a 28 year old guy with so many miles on him to a 7 year deal was too risky. A 4 year deal would have been more acceptable but it was complicated by the fact that having traded Hall, Chia wanted to show everybody that he had acquired a capable replacement for Hall's offence and that it was going to be around for a long time. One bad move often leads to another bad move in an attempt to cover up a mistake.

The real problem of course is not that the team signed Lucic but rather that it signed Chia. That was another risk analysis gone wrong when there was lots of data to suggest that the guy made wild-assed moves where the cost was very high and the potential reward was very limited.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Honestly wiht JJ Kassian and Nurse I don't think the loss of Lucic would hurt in the toughness department

Toughness is such an overrated aspect of hockey nowadays. Roussel was probably the only tough guy in Vancouvers lineup and he was too busy scoring to worry about being tough.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

I think traded in tbe summer of 2020. Unless we give up a killer asset to go along with him.

If he made $700k you may be able to trade him, no mentally sound GM is going to trade for Lucic as is.

 

[DaGap]

If he made $700k you may be able to trade him, no mentally sound GM is going to trade for Lucic as is.

What if we fire Chia and then he goes to another team we can trade them Lucic for their Top dman?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

What if we fire Chia and then he goes to another team we can trade them Lucic for their Top dman?

I sincerely doubt Chiarelli will have a job in the NHL after he’s fired, never mind GM of another team.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

This "degenerative back condition" has kept him out for exactly 0 games. I am not sure how he can be put on LTIR for something that isn't an issue today but probably will be when he is in his 60's.

And what if it's the primary reason that his game has taken a crap? Anyone that has had back issues would know how debilitating a bad back can be when it's acting up. He is said to be a proud person, if his play continues to be lacking he should see if he can get LTIR'd, move to California which is where he wants to be anyway and spend his life out of the public spotlight with his family IMO.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

And what if it's the primary reason that his game has taken a crap? Anyone that has had back issues would know how debilitating a bad back can be when it's acting up. He is said to be a proud person, if his play continues to be lacking he should see if he can get LTIR'd, move to California which is where he wants to be anyway and spend his life out of the public spotlight with his family IMO.

If that is the reason for his game to suddenly go south exactly a year ago one would think they would have played that LTIR card by now. Instead they are trying him at every position up and down the lineup with as many combinations of forwards and inventing new roles for him as possible.

They would stick him on IR at the very least in order to find some form of medical solution, as required by the league and the CBA to resolve it and restore him to playing condition because a team can’t arbitrarily grant LTIR status onto a player.

Either way this “degenerative back condition” does not appear to be the issue with his game play.

Perhaps one day they hire the same Toronto doctors that LTIRd Lupul and Robidas down the road. But there is no injury or medical condition impacting him nor has one since he has been here.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If that is the reason for his game to suddenly go south exactly a year ago one would think they would have played that LTIR card by now. Instead they are trying him at every position up and down the lineup with as many combinations of forwards and inventing new roles for him as possible.

They would stick him on IR at the very least in order to find some form of medical solution, as required by the league and the CBA to resolve it and restore him to playing condition because a team can’t arbitrarily grant LTIR status onto a player.

Either way this “degenerative back condition” does not appear to be the issue with his game play.

Perhaps one day they hire the same Toronto doctors that LTIRd Lupul and Robidas down the road. But there is no injury or medical condition impacting him nor has one since he has been here.

Perhaps he just doesn't want to retire without giving it all that he has first? I don't know one way or another, just speculating.

 

[Tyrolean]

Chai must have given orders to TMac and Hitch to never bench this disaster of a player. So symptomatic of the whole rotten management structure!

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Perhaps he just doesn't want to retire without giving it all that he has first? I don't know one way or another, just speculating.

I can’t see him or any player retiring when there is still $30M owes to him. Zetterberg, Hossa, Clarkson, Bolland, Franzen, they all are on LTIR and have (ahem) proven medical conditions that prevent them from playing.

Lucic “degenerative” back condition has yet to prevent him from playing nor has been remotely used by him or the Oilers. In fact Lucic said it was 90% mental.

Perhaps another season of futility gets him reaching for any excuse to not play but I see him only as wanting to play and be successful. Not going out as a collosal failure.

Either way you can bet at the end of the season there will be some interesting conversations between his agent and whomever the new GM is here.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Chai must have given orders to TMac and Hitch to never bench this disaster of a player. So symptomatic of the whole rotten management structure!

I know TMac was reluctant to bench him as it was throwing Chia under the bus.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Chai must have given orders to TMac and Hitch to never bench this disaster of a player. So symptomatic of the whole rotten management structure!

Many teams don't bench these players. Brouwer, Okposo, Eriksson, Backes. It's common NHL practice. Oil have demoted him and took away his pp time..he knows his place on the team. A scratch would not suddenly make a vet like hi play better, or see the ice different

The only step now is to pull what Philly did w/ Lecalvier, and send him to the minors and hope he cracks. But this doesn't always work either, as they tried the same with A. MacDonald but he refused to waive his contract.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Many teams don't bench these players. Brouwer, Okposo, Eriksson, Backes. It's common NHL practice. Oil have demoted him and took away his pp time..he knows his place on the team. A scratch would not suddenly make a vet like hi play better, or see the ice different

The only step now is to pull what Philly did w/ Lecalvier, and send him to the minors and hope he cracks. But this doesn't always work either, as they tried the same with A. MacDonald but he refused to waive his contract.

And why exactly would Lucic waive his no-movement clause to play in the minors?

 

[bobbythebrain]

And why exactly would Lucic waive his no-movement clause to play in the minors?

My mistake. Does a NMC prevent him from being sent down? I did not know that.

If so, then this management is even more pigeon holed than I thought

Edit: Just looked on capfriendly. It shows an MNC prevents him from being traded until certain dates, or teams he can list. No mention of him not being able to get being sent down

If so, what's the difference between a player waiving their clause to be sent down on a conditioning stint or a player waiving to get a trade? The former voids the clause to my understanding

If Looch takes a major injury, and needs surgery, are you saying he can refuse to condition in the AHL as part of his recovery?

 

[MessierII]

My mistake. Does a NMC prevent him from being sent down? I did not know that.

If so, then this management is even more pigeon holed than I thought

Edit: Just looked on capfriendly. It shows an MNC prevents him from being traded until certain dates, or teams he can list. No mention of him not being able to get being sent down

If so, what's the difference between a player waiving their clause to be sent down on a conditioning stint or a player waiving to get a trade? The former voids the clause to my understanding

If Looch takes a major injury, and needs surgery, are you saying he can refuse to condition in the AHL as part of his recovery?

Nothing voids a clause. The only way a clause can not be honoured is if a player is traded to a new team before the clause kicks in. The new team can choose to not honour the clause. If a guy waived his clause under any circumstances the clause doesn’t go anywhere.

 

[Soundwave]

My mistake. Does a NMC prevent him from being sent down? I did not know that.

If so, then this management is even more pigeon holed than I thought

Edit: Just looked on capfriendly. It shows an MNC prevents him from being traded until certain dates, or teams he can list. No mention of him not being able to get being sent down

If so, what's the difference between a player waiving their clause to be sent down on a conditioning stint or a player waiving to get a trade? The former voids the clause to my understanding

If Looch takes a major injury, and needs surgery, are you saying he can refuse to condition in the AHL as part of his recovery?

Yes he can refuse any assignment to the AHL, basically.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Nothing voids a clause. The only way a clause can not be honoured is if a player is traded to a new team before the clause kicks in. The new team can choose to not honour the clause. If a guy waived his clause under any circumstances the clause doesn’t go anywhere.

Are you sure? I recall Hartnell and Upshall both agreeing to void their clauses in a trade. Hartnell was on record saying he waived cuz he decided to not stay w/ a team that didn't want him

Once they were swapped, it was said their clauses became invalid cuz they chose to waive them once

 

[MessierII]

it was said their clauses became invalid cuz they chose to waive them once

It was said by who? Because it definitely isn’t true.


What is a No-Move Clause (NMC)?

A No-Move Clause (NMC) can be added to a player's contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties:

• Player cannot be traded without his consent (however, the clause can specify a modified no-trade clause that limits the NTC to a certain number of teams)
• Player cannot be placed on waivers without his consent
• Player cannot be assigned to the minors without his consent
• Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination
• The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
  • This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
  • If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
• If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause

 

[bobbythebrain]

Yes he can refuse any assignment to the AHL, basically.

Just found it online. Yup, I guess he can refuse to being sent down. Brutal

 

[bobbythebrain]

It was said by who? Because it definitely isn’t true.


What is a No-Move Clause (NMC)?

A No-Move Clause (NMC) can be added to a player's contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties:

• Player cannot be traded without his consent (however, the clause can specify a modified no-trade clause that limits the NTC to a certain number of teams)
• Player cannot be placed on waivers without his consent
• Player cannot be assigned to the minors without his consent
• Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination
• The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
  • This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
  • If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
• If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause

Thanks.

 

[nexttothemoon]

NMC means no movement otherwise it wouldn't have any power or meaning and wouldn't be worth including in the contract.


Pressbox is the only option if you don't like him in the lineup.


Honestly though... do the Oilers actually have 12 better forward options on this team to in fact be able to say he'd be better off in the pressbox?

He's #7 in scoring among Oilers forwards playing just over 13 minutes per game.

Not saying he's been even decent... but there's really not a lot of "goodness" to be found in half the roster.

Lucic brings some hitting and physicality and still has some of that intimidating factor.. for what that's worth.. so having him in there as one of the underwhelming forwards at least provides something unique which most others can't provide.


I thought he'd actually have somewhat of a bounce back this season as well... and instead he seems to have regressed even more so I'm in the "disappointed" camp as well.

Play him with reduced minutes in his specific role until you have a better option.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

NMC means no movement otherwise it wouldn't have any power or meaning and wouldn't be worth including in the contract.


Pressbox is the only option if you don't like him in the lineup.


Honestly though... do the Oilers actually have 12 better forward options on this team to in fact be able to say he'd be better off in the pressbox?

He's #7 in scoring among Oilers forwards playing just over 13 minutes per game.

Not saying he's been even decent... but there's really not a lot of "goodness" to be found in half the roster.

Lucic brings some hitting and physicality and still has some of that intimidating factor.. for what that's worth.. so having him in there as one of the underwhelming forwards at least provides something unique which most others can't provide.


I thought he'd actually have somewhat of a bounce back this season as well... and instead he seems to have regressed even more so I'm in the "disappointed" camp as well.

Play him with reduced minutes in his specific role until you have a better option.

Lucic is 13th among our current 13-player forward group in GF/60 at even strength. Yamamoto and Strome were both higher. In fact all the defencemen are higher as well. Lucic ranks 23rd of our 23-man roster.

Hes 7th in scoring because hes gifted PP time, quality teammates and never scratched.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Question. Could the Oilers and Lucic agree for contract termination and then hire Lucic for some position with the org at $5mil/year?

 

[redgrant]

Khaira gives this idiot a perfect tape to tape pass on a 2 on 1 and he cant even connect. Being on a line with lucic is literally some sort of punishment.