News Article: Can Flyers' Mason overcome humiliating goal?

Yukon Cornelius*

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Pretty weird that some people can't see the obvious truth that we need both these guys on the team unless and until Stolarz or Lyon shows they are ready to play 20+ NHL games.

LOL. You're one of the biggest Mason apologists in this thread and now that Neuvirth has eliminated any doubt as to who was the Flyers weakest link in the Series, you've now changed your tune and are lobbying for them.equally? Pretty weird indeed (among other things)

Had the Flyers gotten the same level of exceptional goaltending in games 1-3 as they did tonight, this Series, at minimum, would be tied.

Next Season is really setting itself up to be a winner take all situation vis a vis both of their impending free agencies. Good stuff.
 

PensBrony 6 9*

Guest
Oh, they fired Mason? Announced that Neuvirth is now there #1 for next year? Or they figured maybe Mason was tired from all of those back to backs, and made the correct call, and gave Neuvirth a call? Hrmmmm, I wonder which one it could be. The flyers just won , I really don't care to talk to you anymore, you are pretty clearly delusional, and looking for "internet wins". I'm not interested in playing that game, sorry.:yo:

They didn't fire him but guess who's going to be sitting on the bench "resting" for the rest of the series, however long it lasts. The same guy that played himself out of the starting job until Neuvirth got hurt and they were forced to go with him routinely. If next year is going to be a goalie competition, I think we all know how Mason reacts to pressure. Hopefully they trade him at the deadline to someone they'll be facing in the playoffs. It would be nice to be on the receiving end of his soft ass goals
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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Last time Mason's job had pressure he reacted by clearly and significantly outplaying his competition from January through early April.

Hey, do you think it's at all possible that an already fatigued goalie was pushed past the breaking point by playing 5 games in 7 days right before the playoffs?
 

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
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LOL. You're one of the biggest Mason apologists in this thread and now that Neuvirth has eliminated any doubt as to who was the Flyers weakest link in the Series, you've now changed your tune and are lobbying for them.equally? Pretty weird indeed (among other things)

Had the Flyers gotten the same level of exceptional goaltending in games 1-3 as they did tonight, this Series, at minimum, would be tied.

Next Season is really setting itself up to be a winner take all situation vis a vis both of their impending free agencies. Good stuff.

You are completely failing to take into consideration the fact that besides the goaltending, the Fourth Game is almost totally different than the first three in almost all aspects... The Flyers had to defend IIRC only one full Penalty... two at the most... and the personnel and defensive method were not the same on them and in the Game actually.

The TEAM did not play the same in front of Neuvie as they did in front of Mase... even with the freshness of Neuvirth and worn-down state of Mason in play, it would not be inconceivable that Mason could have provided the same result tonight... Mason had to face many more PK situations and some 5x3, 4x3 or broken stick confusion... and long stretches of PK time... Taking away that, Mason may have not play the same way, and may well have been more the Goalie who finished the Season... It was obvious to me tonight that there was a different mindset with the Flyers and with the coaching tonight.

With that said, I'm not arguing against replacing Mason thsi Game... in fact, I would have done it when the last Game was out of hand; save Mason from the situation and rest him, as well as get Neuvie some work... When in a situation that a change must me made, you make changes, and the most obvious one to get the Team on the correct path is to make a Goalie change... And now made, they must ride Neuvirth... unless he schits the bed in a game in this series and an in-game change has to be made... or if they get to another Round, and Neuvirth unravels... or, of course, in the event of injury.

I just can't look at this Game and believe that had the skaters played the same as the previous Games, they still win Game Four... Kudos to Hak and the Players for adjusting and working tair tales off tonight.
 

Sawdalite

SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Apr 5, 2009
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They didn't fire him but guess who's going to be sitting on the bench "resting" for the rest of the series, however long it lasts. The same guy that played himself out of the starting job until Neuvirth got hurt and they were forced to go with him routinely. If next year is going to be a goalie competition, I think we all know how Mason reacts to pressure. Hopefully they trade him at the deadline to someone they'll be facing in the playoffs. It would be nice to be on the receiving end of his soft ass goals

Do you believe he faced no pressure knowing the uphill battle to egt into the PostSeason with all the Teams ahead of him... and no NHL backup... and the crazy schedule of six back to backs and all those Games at the end? Knowing if he doesn't play well they are out?... He carried the Team on his back and into the PLayOffs with his play... Yes I think we all should know how Mason reacts to pressure... If you're asking how he reacts to playing a far superior Team with a great PP with a loosey-goosey team in front of him and a lot of PKs, that is another question.
 

PensBrony 6 9*

Guest
Last time Mason's job had pressure he reacted by clearly and significantly outplaying his competition from January through early April.

Hey, do you think it's at all possible that an already fatigued goalie was pushed past the breaking point by playing 5 games in 7 days right before the playoffs?

i certainly hope not, as the guy is a professional athlete, should be in top physical condition, and gets professional massages/recovery treatment whenever he wants it. A lot of the guys on our team played 70+ games (and the same 5 games in 7 days), getting hit, etc. and aren't breaking down to the level you want to believe Mason has because of it. All he has to do is sit down and stand up for an hour a day. it's not like the goals he was giving up were on athletic plays going across the crease or anything anyway, he was getting beaten on straight up easy shots. You're telling me his arm was too tired to glove that ovechkin goal? Or he's too exhausted to stop a trickling 100 foot dump in? Ridiculous. He didn't even play that many games this year. Meanwhile, teams play every other day in the playoffs. Are you saying every goalie should be burned out and giving up weak goals with under a .900 save percentage by the end of a 5 or 6 game series? Funny, because almost none do so every year. Nice to see you admit that he's been bad though, finally, but you're still giving him excuses for it that aren't valid
 

Beef Invictus

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i certainly hope not, as the guy is a professional athlete, should be in top physical condition, and gets professional massages/recovery treatment whenever he wants it.

This is pretty absurd. Using this logic every starting goalie should be able to play 82+ games without an issue. That's just not the case. You'd have a hard time finding any goalie who can play 5 games in 7 nights without being fatigued. Even Brodeur would've considered that shenanigans. Luongo complained of 3 games in 4 nights to start the playoffs, and he played in 62 games this year and has played in up to 76. Yet 3 in 4, similar to 5 in 7 (especially considering his workload leading up to that hell week), was worth complaining about.

Goalies are athletes, but athletes are also humans and the human body has limitations. They aren't machines. You're holding Mason to a totally insane standard here.

Hell, your golden boy Neuvy wore down only halfway through the season and was hurt in a warmup. How come he gets a pass for that?

A lot of the guys on our team played 70+ games (and the same 5 games in 7 days), getting hit, etc. and aren't breaking down to the level you want to believe Mason has because of it.

Really? Are you sure of that? Because Ghost is noticeably slower than he was. He's certainly worn down. His starting strides are less explosive. Giroux looks completely worn down out there. Streit is broken down too. These guys aren't machines. There's a reason why the Flyers can't keep up all game and slow down as it wears on; they're all worn out after two months of playoff hockey while the Caps have been able to rest.

All he has to do is sit down and stand up for an hour a day.

This is an insulting over-simplification of goaltending. You're entirely ignoring the rather exhausting mental fatigue that comes from keeping track of ten guys at once, reading plays, never losing sight of the puck, etc. That grinds on a person, too.

it's not like the goals he was giving up were on athletic plays going across the crease or anything anyway, he was getting beaten on straight up easy shots. You're telling me his arm was too tired to glove that ovechkin goal? Or he's too exhausted to stop a trickling 100 foot dump in? Ridiculous. He didn't even play that many games this year. Meanwhile, teams play every other day in the playoffs. Are you saying every goalie should be burned out and giving up weak goals with under a .900 save percentage by the end of a 5 or 6 game series? Funny, because almost none do so every year. Nice to see you admit that he's been bad though, finally, but you're still giving him excuses for it that aren't valid

You're desperate to build strawmen again. How about arguing things people actually say, instead of trying to pretend they're saying other things and arguing against those imaginary quotes you're pumping out?
 

PensBrony 6 9*

Guest
This is pretty absurd. Using this logic every starting goalie should be able to play 82+ games without an issue. That's just not the case. You'd have a hard time finding any goalie who can play 5 games in 7 nights without being fatigued. Even Brodeur would've considered that shenanigans. Luongo complained of 3 games in 4 nights to start the playoffs, and he played in 62 games this year and has played in up to 76. Yet 3 in 4, similar to 5 in 7 (especially considering his workload leading up to that hell week), was worth complaining about.

Goalies are athletes, but athletes are also humans and the human body has limitations. They aren't machines. You're holding Mason to a totally insane standard here.

Hell, your golden boy Neuvy wore down only halfway through the season and was hurt in a warmup. How come he gets a pass for that?



Really? Are you sure of that? Because Ghost is noticeably slower than he was. He's certainly worn down. His starting strides are less explosive. Giroux looks completely worn down out there. Streit is broken down too. These guys aren't machines. There's a reason why the Flyers can't keep up all game and slow down as it wears on; they're all worn out after two months of playoff hockey while the Caps have been able to rest.



This is an insulting over-simplification of goaltending. You're entirely ignoring the rather exhausting mental fatigue that comes from keeping track of ten guys at once, reading plays, never losing sight of the puck, etc. That grinds on a person, too.



You're desperate to build strawmen again. How about arguing things people actually say, instead of trying to pretend they're saying other things and arguing against those imaginary quotes you're pumping out?

You're acting like 5 games in 7 nights is some kind of diabolical schedule. My point is that teams routinely play 5 games in 8 nights in the playoffs, how come almost everyone else can handle that without falling apart like he did? Some even do it for multiple rounds in a row! Also, you never responded to my other point, which was that he's not even getting beaten on plays that require him to use his athleticism. He's giving up goals on straightforward plays, not going post to post or having to scramble. there's no excuse for any goalie to put up the repulsive numbers he has. Your save percentage doesn't drop 5% because you're tired. If it did, we'd see it from most goalies every playoffs.
 

Sombastate

Registered User
Jun 19, 2011
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i certainly hope not, as the guy is a professional athlete, should be in top physical condition, and gets professional massages/recovery treatment whenever he wants it. A lot of the guys on our team played 70+ games (and the same 5 games in 7 days), getting hit, etc. and aren't breaking down to the level you want to believe Mason has because of it. All he has to do is sit down and stand up for an hour a day. it's not like the goals he was giving up were on athletic plays going across the crease or anything anyway, he was getting beaten on straight up easy shots. You're telling me his arm was too tired to glove that ovechkin goal? Or he's too exhausted to stop a trickling 100 foot dump in? Ridiculous. He didn't even play that many games this year. Meanwhile, teams play every other day in the playoffs. Are you saying every goalie should be burned out and giving up weak goals with under a .900 save percentage by the end of a 5 or 6 game series? Funny, because almost none do so every year. Nice to see you admit that he's been bad though, finally, but you're still giving him excuses for it that aren't valid

Oh boy... This is one of the worst posts i've ever seen in my life.

I am 27, i've been in net since i was 5. I currently play in the two A-Leagues in town, i coach the goalies at our collegiate level, i also have a 12 year old, a 14 year old and a 7 year old. I played Junior Hockey and had a brief stint in the ECHL. So my credentials are there. I'd love to see yours whenever you find the time to respond to my post

Lets start with stand and sit down multiple times: its very common to have a goalie be the best skater on the team. Before i accept a goalie for coaching, I make them take figure skating lessons. Reason why? You not only need to be able to get from Point A to Point B at the speed the puck is moving at, but sometimes you need to do that while "sitting down." Do you think you can sit down, and get across 6 feet?

Second, let me ask... How many times have you been in the splits? Well, i'm willing to be that this year alone Mason has been in the splits 1000+ times when you consider stretching, practice, games and warm ups. How do you think YOUR body would hold up with being in the splits even 50 times a year? That's without even facing rubber or having to contort your ankle to stop yourself as your sliding in the splits.

So now, grab a chair. I want you to stand up and sit down in that 100 times in 60 minutes. Do that EVERY day for a year. Oh wait... also add 50 pounds to your body when you do that. I'm not confident that you'll wake up feeling great the next day and that's without hockey involved.

Have you ever done an Iron Chair? Or a wall sit? Well, a goaltender who is focused is doing that the WHOLE game when he's not "standing up and sitting down." I'm not confident that you can give me 240 seconds right now. I'd LOVE to have you prove me wrong.

On to your next asinine question: You're telling me his arm was too tired to glove that ovechkin goal? You ever had a stubbed toe? You ever see how a STUBBED toe forces you to change EVERYTHING you do, including how you distribute your weight when you "stand up and sit down?" Now, imagine that on your groin, or your hip, or hamstring, or glutes. Hell, even imagine being really tired. Well in a position of repetition such as goaltending, ANYTHING can throw your rhythm off. And wouldn't you know? sometimes that effects your ability to catch 100 mile per hour pucks. Have you ever had anything come at you lets say even 80 miles an hour? How do you think a moment of hesitation, discomfort or fatigue would effect that?

Now the fluke goal that we all discuss: Its a terrible goal. There's no excuse. But ask ANY goaltender. You perform at your best when you get to think the game and react to the puck. Sometimes reacting to the game and thinking the puck leads to blunders. It happens. There's a reason that goalies have a saying "Its easier to play up than to play down." I would rather face NHL shots than even face C level shots. its SIGNIFICANTLY harder to stop shots that aren't moving at the pace that you're accustomed to. The goal was an AWFUL goal, no excuses, but it happens. It happens all the time.

Now something that you didn't mention: Goaltending is a mental position. When your confidence is shot you may question your angles which leads to your angles being off. You may question how the puck is coming instead of just reacting to it. You question a lot. If Mason isn't feeling confident, his body language would change, which would cause him to fight the puck both physically, visually and mentally.



I'm not saying Mason has been playing well, because he hasn't. But i am saying that your post doesn't convince me that you know squat about goaltending.

But you know, lets hope that Neuvy is better at standing and sitting down.
 
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CanadianFlyer88

Knublin' PPs
Feb 12, 2004
42,673
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You're acting like 5 games in 7 nights is some kind of diabolical schedule. My point is that teams routinely play 5 games in 8 nights in the playoffs, how come almost everyone else can handle that without falling apart like he did? Some even do it for multiple rounds in a row! Also, you never responded to my other point, which was that he's not even getting beaten on plays that require him to use his athleticism. He's giving up goals on straightforward plays, not going post to post or having to scramble. there's no excuse for any goalie to put up the repulsive numbers he has. Your save percentage doesn't drop 5% because you're tired. If it did, we'd see it from most goalies every playoffs.

You need to show your work.

There are plenty of examples of teams playing 5 games in 9 days (a game every other day), but I cannot find any playoff schedule that has teams routinely playing 5 games in 8 days.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,798
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Nova Scotia
Certain people want to ignore it, but the difference was the PK.

Mason allowed 4 ES goals in 3 games. 1 was the fluke goal.
Neuvirth allowed 1 ES goal in 1 game.

The difference was that we only allowed 1 PP last night....AND OUR PK DID NOT ALLOW TARGET PRACTICE TO HAPPEN. We actually put pressure on them. Made them make quicker decisions. Didn't let them pass it around with free will and tee up shots they wanted.

I swear, it's as if people don't watch games.

And it's funny how people ignore that Darling came in for Crawford last year to win them a round. Without the help from a backup, they don't win the cup. It's also why Hextall added the best backup on the market last summer. Depth at EVERY position is a good thing.
 

Larry44

#FireTortsNOW
Mar 1, 2002
11,948
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Thanks, Hexastate, for an excellent post. I never played pro but I played net most of my life and switched to forward after my MCL stopped letting me butterfly.

Playing goal is a LOT more physically demanding than playing F or D. Concentrate the whole game. No rests. Up and downs that would kill mere mortals...
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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LOL. You're one of the biggest Mason apologists in this thread and now that Neuvirth has eliminated any doubt as to who was the Flyers weakest link in the Series, you've now changed your tune and are lobbying for them.equally? Pretty weird indeed (among other things)

Mason apologist... :rolleyes: I was the guy who told everyone at the start of the season he wasn't on the same level of consistency as Holtby, and I never had a problem with Neuvirth playing ahead of him during the rare instances when Neuvirth was actually healthy and playing better.
 
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renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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Neuverth went down with the injury that led to his surgery after the game on March 16. Including the three PO games, Mason played the fourteen of the next fifteen games. (Neuverth played and won the season ender against the Isles.) During that streak, through Monday night, Mason went 5-9. His last regular season win was the 2-1 victory over the Penguins where Pitt played their scrubs through most of the game.
I realize that this was a stretch of games w/o a break but I don't see Mason shutting the door on the opposition to lead the team to victories and the POs. Frankly the Flyers sort of backed into them with Boston collapsing. Had Boston not fallen apart, the Flyers would have been golfing by now. Mason hardly led the team to the Washington series.
Mason is a good NHL goaltender. Not top tier but good. Neuverth may well be entering into that category himself. His game seems to have changed for the better this year. Perhaps the coaching that he is receiving here is due to that. Maybe its because he is getting more experience and is settling into playing for one team and not being bounced around.
Right now, the Flyers are facing a difficult decision in that both of these guys are FAs at the end of the '16-17 season. I can't see Hextall letting one of these guys walk away for no return. So one probably one will be re-signed and the other traded this off season. Calgary needs a goal tender and so does Dallas. Ruff is playing goalie roulette right now in his series with Minny. Reese is the goalie coach in Dallas and might push for the Stars to obtain Mason. Its going to be interesting to see how Hextall solves this issue. Anything could happen.
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
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Last time Mason's job had pressure he reacted by clearly and significantly outplaying his competition from January through early April.

Hey, do you think it's at all possible that an already fatigued goalie was pushed past the breaking point by playing 5 games in 7 days right before the playoffs?

He actually played 0 games in 7 days before the playoffs. It was the week before.

How long do you guys seriously think it takes to recover from being tired?
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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Neuverth went down with the injury that led to his surgery after the game on March 16. Including the three PO games, Mason played the fourteen of the next fifteen games. (Neuverth played and won the season ender against the Isles.) During that streak, through Monday night, Mason went 5-9.

Actually he went 6-4-3, and more importantly, had a .926 SV% to get them into the playoffs after Neuvirth managed to get hurt during warmups for the 3/19 Pens game, including playing two back to backs. Something Neuvirth couldn't manage all season due to his various ailments. And in the four regulation losses the Flyers scored a total of four goals.

He absolutely lead the team into the playoffs.
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
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Actually he went 6-4-3, and more importantly, had a .926 SV% to get them into the playoffs after Neuvirth managed to get hurt during warmups for the 3/19 Pens game, including playing two back to backs. Something Neuvirth couldn't manage all season due to his various ailments. And in the four regulation losses the Flyers scored a total of four goals.

He absolutely lead the team into the playoffs.

And then let the team down once they made it there. Sorry, but just getting to the playoffs isn't good enough, you actually have to play well once you're there. If Mason can't play well because he's tired, well, maybe we need a new goalie because everyone's tired by the time the playoffs come around.

But that's just my issue with you guys trying to excuse his play with the "oh, he's just so tired" line. I don't think that's why he played poorly, nor do I think we need a new goalie, he just had two very poor games and he isn't a good PK goalie. I think Mason's good enough to lead us to a cup, but he has to sort out whatever mental barriers cause him to let in these soft goals. Because that's all it is: mental. He's not too tired to make a glove save, he's not too injured to stop a puck slowly drifting towards the net, he's making bad decisions and bad reads. He's off his game and that's not acceptable (and no he hasn't been the only one).
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,798
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Reality is:

Neuvirth was better in Oct, Nov and Dec.
Mason was better in Jas, Feb, Mar, and April

And with a win last night Neuvirth will play until he loses. But that might be next game anyways.

Why can't we be happy we have 2 good goalies?
 

Swic21

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Jan 8, 2012
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I love Mase, I love Neuvy. It's a great problem to have 2 goaltenders of their quality in the organization. That being said, for whatever reason, the team seems to play better in front of Neuvy. This could be because they think Neuvy needs th extra defensive help, and that Mase will make THAT save when they need him to.
I never played hockey at an extremely high level, but this was my teams thought process and it was maddening. We would work our ass off, block shots, back check with everything we had, all to protect our average back up goaltender. When you have your starter in the net, you almost take it for granted. That thought of " well I can barely breathe, but I see this guy about to get a breakaway, our starters got it", is a damning thing. I'm not saying the Flyers situation is the exact same, but it's not unreasonable to think some players feel this way. Same with when Emery was Mase's back up. The team played so good in front of Emery, but gave Mason nothing. Getting a little off track here, but how else does Ray Emery go 19-1 with the Hawks....
I hope I made sense lol, it's kinda hard to explain the mindset that sets in.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,798
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Nova Scotia
I love Mase, I love Neuvy. It's a great problem to have 2 goaltenders of their quality in the organization. That being said, for whatever reason, the team seems to play better in front of Neuvy. This could be because they think Neuvy needs th extra defensive help, and that Mase will make THAT save when they need him to.
I never played hockey at an extremely high level, but this was my teams thought process and it was maddening. We would work our ass off, block shots, back check with everything we had, all to protect our average back up goaltender. When you have your starter in the net, you almost take it for granted. That thought of " well I can barely breathe, but I see this guy about to get a breakaway, our starters got it", is a damning thing. I'm not saying the Flyers situation is the exact same, but it's not unreasonable to think some players feel this way. Same with when Emery was Mase's back up. The team played so good in front of Emery, but gave Mason nothing. Getting a little off track here, but how else does Ray Emery go 19-1 with the Hawks....
I hope I made sense lol, it's kinda hard to explain the mindset that sets in.

It makes perfect sense to those who have played. It's crazy, but it does happen.

I just don't like that certain Mason haters...or MN supporters...ignore the difference in how our PK played last night. PLus that we only had to kill 1 real penalty.

If MN was in het for that 6-1 game with us giving up 8 PP's including a 5 minute one AND sat back and just allowed the Caps to do whatever they wanted, the result would have been similar.

I only "blame" Mason for the fluke goal.
 

Flyerfan4life

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
34,779
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Richmond BC, Canada
whats going to be hilarous here is if Neuvy starts and we lose game 5 it will still be Masons fault according to some..


even when we dont have a goalie carousel we still have one.. hahah
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
3,111
526
It makes perfect sense to those who have played. It's crazy, but it does happen.

I just don't like that certain Mason haters...or MN supporters...ignore the difference in how our PK played last night. PLus that we only had to kill 1 real penalty.

If MN was in het for that 6-1 game with us giving up 8 PP's including a 5 minute one AND sat back and just allowed the Caps to do whatever they wanted, the result would have been similar.

I only "blame" Mason for the fluke goal.

Oh please, both game winning goals in games 2 and 3 were entirely on Mason. There's no one else you could possibly hold responsible. They weren't on the PK. Each of those goals broke the tie and changed the course of the game.

You can't say that we're still going to take 8 penalties or whatever in the third if we're going in tied instead of about to lose.

If that's all you blame Mason for, you haven't been paying attention. In the playoffs, you need a goalie that can play a tight, low-scoring game. At least one soft goal a game can screw you over and it's screwed us over so far. And it's been more than those 2 soft goals, whether you want to admit it or not.

whats going to be hilarous here is if Neuvy starts and we lose game 5 it will still be Masons fault according to some..


even when we dont have a goalie carousel we still have one.. hahah

Yeah, blame the fans instead of the goalie playing like garbage. That makes sense. The only reason this is a discussion is because Mason is playing poorly. There's no "goalie carousel" otherwise.
 
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beetee15

Long Island Bullies
May 26, 2010
710
6
Long Island
Reality is:

Neuvirth was better in Oct, Nov and Dec.
Mason was better in Jas, Feb, Mar, and April

And with a win last night Neuvirth will play until he loses. But that might be next game anyways.

Why can't we be happy we have 2 good goalies?

this times 100
 

JDinkalage Morgoone

U of South Flurrida
Oct 7, 2008
15,010
3
308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
This year has been truly bizarre in terms of this. I am happy we have two goalies who can win us games. I hate the fact that we have two goalies that can win us games because I have to listen to fans bickering on Facebook about it.
 

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