Can a team terminate a contract for a player being overweight? Jake Dotchin

[mouser]

Interesting situation developing in Tampa.
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-dotchin-showed-up-30-lbs-overweight-1.1175694

Last week Tampa announced they were placing Jake Dotchin on unconditional waivers for the purposes of terminating his contract for material breach. Dotchin cleared waivers. More details are coming out now that Dotchin allegedly reported to training camp 30 pounds above his playing weight last season. Also reported that the case is being grieved by the PA and will be heard by the independent arbitrator.

Some other media reports have claimed Dotchin did the same thing last season--reporting to camp in unsuitable condition. Reports at the time in 2017 stated he "violated a team rule" and was held out most of the preseason.

Is being overweight or otherwise out of condition a material breach of a player contract? The CBA mentions teams can fine and/or suspend players who report to camp out of condition. And there have been multiple reports of this happening in the past. So far as I'm aware this would be the first time a team has tried to terminate a contract for this reason.

On the one hand I can see if this is the second consecutive year in a row he's done this why the team considers it so egregious to be a material breach.

On the other hand, this potentially creates a dangerous precedent I'm sure the PA doesn't want to allow.

Click to read more...

 

[Kane One]

Aren't players expected to be in athletic shape throughout their contract?

However, 30 lbs doesn't seem all that much. Athletes have a much better state of mind to be able to go on a diet and get into better shape than the average person.

 

[BattleBorn]

Interesting situation developing in Tampa.
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-dotchin-showed-up-30-lbs-overweight-1.1175694

Last week Tampa announced they were placing Jake Dotchin on unconditional waivers for the purposes of terminating his contract for material breach. Dotchin cleared waivers. More details are coming out now that Dotchin allegedly reported to training camp 30 pounds above his playing weight last season. Also reported that the case is being grieved by the PA and will be heard by the independent arbitrator.

Some other media reports have claimed Dotchin did the same thing last season--reporting to camp in unsuitable condition. Reports at the time in 2017 stated he "violated a team rule" and was held out most of the preseason.

Is being overweight or otherwise out of condition a material breach of a player contract? The CBA mentions teams can fine and/or suspend players who report to camp out of condition. And there have been multiple reports of this happening in the past. So far as I'm aware this would be the first time a team has tried to terminate a contract for this reason.

On the one hand I can see if this is the second consecutive year in a row he's done this why the team considers it so egregious to be a material breach.

On the other hand, this potentially creates a dangerous precedent I'm sure the PA doesn't want to allow.

I'm sure the PA will fight it, and they should since they represent the players and the players interested under the CBA. That's how this collective bargaining thing is supposed to work. In theory, for their POV, you shouldn't lose your livelihood for some extra weight.

However, when the product you're being contracted to provide is your body and the performance at a high level of skills using your body, it seems extremely reasonable that showing up to work with 30 extra pounds and (apparently, according to sources) 25% body fat is a breach of contract. If a warehouse worker was contracted to physically lift boxes showed up to work after voluntarily cutting their arms off, I'd see it as almost the same situation.

I completely expect this to take a "fat shaming" type of route if it gets very public, though.

 

[GordonGraham]

I dont get why the players/nhlpa ever let this in the CBA, players dont get paid during the summer so they shouldn't have to do shit

 

[LeHab]

I dont get why the players/nhlpa ever let this in the CBA, players dont get paid during the summer so they shouldn't have to do ****

Players are not paid for preseason so why play? Why attend team promotional events if they are not paid? Why should domestic violence impact a player's contract? Both parties recognize players have to be professional 12 months a year on and off ice which goes beyond showing up for regular season games.

Was he penalized last season for showing up out of shape? What metrics are used to make fitness related decisions? Interesting case but I doubt Tampa will be successful. However this should be a very good wake-up call for the player if he has an ounce of professionalism.

 

[LadyStanley]

What metrics are used to make fitness related decisions?

BMI (body mass index). Fat %. Strength, speed (how high can player jump, how fast can they navigate from A to B, acceleration, VO2 max, etc.); and improvement from "last measured". Player history of weight.

 

[Tawnos]

Aren’t players contractually forbidden from engaging in activities that could lead to injury? Like they’re not even supposed to play basketball in the driveway... that kind of thing?

I wonder how similar to that actively ignoring your conditioning is.

 

[mouser]

Players are not paid for preseason so why play? Why attend team promotional events if they are not paid? Why should domestic violence impact a player's contract? Both parties recognize players have to be professional 12 months a year on and off ice which goes beyond showing up for regular season games.

Was he penalized last season for showing up out of shape? What metrics are used to make fitness related decisions? Interesting case but I doubt Tampa will be successful. However this should be a very good wake-up call for the player if he has an ounce of professionalism.

Some of the tweets I’ve found suggest he was disciplined in some fashion. But I don’t know if that includes being fined. The CBA does allow for a team to fine players for being overweight.

 

[LeHab]

BMI (body mass index). Fat %. Strength, speed (how high can player jump, how fast can they navigate from A to B, acceleration, VO2 max, etc.); and improvement from "last measured". Player history of weight.

Apparently standards are set by each team: Jake Dotchin Situation Could Set A Dangerous Precedent

 

[ottawa]

Is suspension without pay? Maybe they can just suspend him until he's in adequate form. I'm sure that would be a major wakeup call for him.

 

[NorthCoast]

Apparently standards are set by each team: Jake Dotchin Situation Could Set A Dangerous Precedent

"The contract does state that a contract may be terminated if the player does “fail, refuse, or neglect to obey the Club’s rules governing training”. (From the article linked by LeHab)

So vague, so many potential question if I were the player:

Does weight gain indicate "neglect" of the club rules, or is the weight gain related to an eating disorder/disease that the player cannot control...like Hossa's skin condition?

What training regiment did the club provide to the player, was he asked to bulk up and went too far?

Dustin Byfuglien has gone through big weight swings in the past, at some points he was over 300 pounds. If a star player can keep playing at a high level while carrying 30-40 extra pounds, why can Dotchin?

Often times rookies come into the league undersized, and need to pack on 30 pounds. Why is a player trying to gain 30 pounds in development and a player trying to lose 30 pounds is suspended? Are they not both 30 pounds away from playing?

 

[lomiller1]

Dustin Byfuglien has gone through big weight swings in the past, at some points he was over 300 pounds.

Those reports were almost certainly false. The team and player both strongly denied the reports and the reports themselves actually had him gaining 30lbs during the NHL season which is more or less a physical impossibility given the physical demands of playing in the NHL. The situation with Dotchin is very different.

To the original question, of Donald Fehr could defend John Rocker back when Fehr was head of the MLB union, then he'd certainly defend Dotchin for gaining weight.

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

Why isn't there a clause in everyone's contract requiring them to pass specific physical tests before a season? "This requires you to run this long in under x minutes, lift x of weight and have a maximum of x % body fat" and so on. Seems like it should always be there as a failsafe to avoid arbitrary disputes.

 

[mouser]

Why isn't there a clause in everyone's contract requiring them to pass specific physical tests before a season? "This requires you to run this long in under x minutes, lift x of weight and have a maximum of x % body fat" and so on. Seems like it should always be there as a failsafe to avoid arbitrary disputes.

The CBA gives teams the power to establish fitness testing, "team rules" which presumably include passing the fitness tests, and power to suspend or fine players for violations of the team rules. Because the CBA is included by reference in the SPC one could argue the contract already effectively includes the fitness testing element. It becomes more complicated as fitness testing might vary from team to team, or even year to year if a team updates their fitness requirements, so probably doesn't make sense to define the specifics in the contract.

The question at hand is whether violating these team fitness rules constitutes a material breach of the contract.

 

[powerstuck]

This is a candidate for opening a pandora box of new contracts. Eventually we will see contracts pay based on performance. 5M per year is only guaranteed if the player achieved the minimum of 30 goals including a total of 50 points per season. He scores 29...he doesn't get the full 5M. One could argue physical status could influence the players performance.

 

[Rob]

Fat Shaming!

 

[cupface52]

I dont get why the players/nhlpa ever let this in the CBA, players dont get paid during the summer so they shouldn't have to do ****

They may not get a cheque during the offseason, but that's just their pay schedule. They are contracted to the team for the full 12 months.

 

[StreetHawk]

They may not get a cheque during the offseason, but that's just their pay schedule. They are contracted to the team for the full 12 months.

It’s one thing to be 30 pounds over your expected weight on August 1, but come mid sept when camp opens you should be right around your target weight.

He wasn’t 5 lbs over where you could justify it as muscle or an strain limited cardio or something. 30 lbs is insane for 3.5 months even for people doing a 9-5 job.

 

[Panthera]

Why isn't there a clause in everyone's contract requiring them to pass specific physical tests before a season? "This requires you to run this long in under x minutes, lift x of weight and have a maximum of x % body fat" and so on. Seems like it should always be there as a failsafe to avoid arbitrary disputes.

Part of the problem is that there aren't really universal standards you can apply. A player's running ability doesn't matter if they can skate well enough, so while it might show good cardio, it also just punishes guys who don't run much if you make it too strict. Lifting weight doesn't necessarily matter, depending on what type of lifts you're talking about - arm strength is less important than you might expect for a lot of players, for example. Body fat % is affected by a lot of factors. You can set minimum standards for all of these things that anyone can meet, but that just means you might as well not have them. If you set the standard high enough that it might weed people out, it risks weeding out guys who are in perfectly fine shape and just have some reason for being really bad at one specific exercise.

 

[dechire]

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Obviously the PA doesn't want to set a precedent that contracts can be terminated over arbitrary fitness requirements but the league doesn't want to set a precedent that players can ignore their contractual obligation and come to camp extremely out of shape and the team still has to keep employing them. At least in this case it's a minor contract with no real cap implications so it's slightly less messy than a team trying to do this with a overpaid veteran contract they were looking for an excuse to dump. But I have no doubt that teams are just waiting to see this play out before they try it.

 

[Spirit of 67]

While being over weight may be the reason for his contract being terminated I doubt it's why it was.
He's probably just a POS and not worth it anymore.

 

[Yukon Joe]

While being over weight may be the reason for his contract being terminated I doubt it's why it was.
He's probably just a POS and not worth it anymore.

Well that's clearly part of it. If they thought he would still be an effective player they wouldn't try to brake his contract.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Well that's clearly part of it. If they thought he would still be an effective player they wouldn't try to brake his contract.

Honestly, I think that's all of it.

A labour lawyer once told me that the reason you're fired is often not why. It's just the most cut and dry, cost effective way of doing it.

 

[ThatGuy22]

This is a candidate for opening a pandora box of new contracts. Eventually we will see contracts pay based on performance. 5M per year is only guaranteed if the player achieved the minimum of 30 goals including a total of 50 points per season. He scores 29...he doesn't get the full 5M. One could argue physical status could influence the players performance.

Sure... That could happen. If the CBA didn't already outlaw performance based bonuses/contracts with a few well defined exceptions (ELC, 1 year contracts after serious injury, 1 year contracts 35 or older).

 

[Yukon Joe]

Honestly, I think that's all of it.

A labour lawyer once told me that the reason you're fired is often not why. It's just the most cut and dry, cost effective way of doing it.

I'm a lawyer (albeit not a labour lawyer) and that's my understanding. Often people are fired "without cause" - that is they don't give a reason why. Except obviously they DO have a reason. It's just that they're willing to pay you your severance in order to get rid of you.