Cam Ward a 9.0B?!?!?!

[Ogopogo*]

It is funny how people only give you credit for your worst season or the worst you have ever been. If you win a Smythe or have a great year that is a fluke but, if you have a bad season that is what you are. Strange.

 

[The Nemesis]

Now we get the ranking for how good he could be one day, if he lives up to his potential.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't the letter grade portion of the rating supposed to be the likelihood of him hitting said potential? a 9.0 rates him as an upper echelon star in the league. The B says there's a very good chance he gets there, and at worst he drops to an 8.0, which still qualifies him as an all-star or a very solid, if unspectacular goalie (the 8.0 example is Olaf Kolzig.)

The problem is that one cup run cannot set in stone that Ward will be either a Marty Brodeur or an Olaf Kolzig.

Look at J-S Giguere. His run through the regular season and the playoffs in 03 was every bit as spectacular as Ward's. The Ducks didn't win the cup, but Giguere got the Smythe, and was supposed to plant himself firmly at or near the top of the goaltending heap from then on. Since then he's not been anywhere near that level again.

I'm not saying that will happen to Ward, and I'm not saying there's a good chance Ward proves it wasn't a fluke. I'm just saying that one season/playoff, even a championship one, isn't enough to cement his place as a super-elite NHL goaltender for years to come.

 

[Pepper]

Giguere's Conn Smythe performance was far better than Ward's, Ducks had absolutely no business being in the finals but Giguere took them through 2 'superpowers' (Dallas & Detroit) single-handedly.

Canes were one of the best teams in the league for the whole season and people actually expected them to go far. Ducks were written off without a second thought before both Detroit and Dallas serieses.

 

[exporta]

Cups shouldn't be used to judge someone's skill level and/or potential.

unless you are a 22 year old goaltender that carried your team?

 

[likeavoss]

The problem is that one cup run cannot set in stone that Ward will be either a Marty Brodeur or an Olaf Kolzig.

That's true, but it doesn't mean he won't, either.

Look, it's not like anyone in this thread is saying that he's at Brodeur's or Kolzig's levels right now... but ratings are all about potential. Taking into consideration that he's dominated at every level he's played, and already has a Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe under his belt at twenty-two years old... why is it so hard to imagine Cam having the potential to have an amazing career?

 

[Vagrant]

I posted this on another thread dealing with Lundqvist vs. Ward:

With Playoff Games taken into account:

Cam Ward

51 GP 29 W - 16 L - 2 T 2.68 GAA .908 save percentage
Conn Smythe Trophy Winner
Stanley Cup Trophy Winner
22 years old

Henrik Lundqvist

56 GP 30 W - 15 L - 9 T 2.30 GAA .925 save percentage
Vezina Finalist
Olympic Gold Medalist
24 years old


Even with Ward's abysmal regular season performance and inconsistancy, his numbers are still respectable overall for the year. The early bad stats would indicate a learning curve that Ward had to contend with, due to the fact that he is younger and hasn't been exposed to pro level hockey before.

 

[da_pope*]

One hit is now spelled C-A-M W-A-R-D.
The guy did absoultley nothing in the reguler season and you'll see.
Samething will happen.

 

[likeavoss]

One hit is now spelled C-A-M W-A-R-D.
The guy did absoultley nothing in the reguler season and you'll see.
Samething will happen.

Funny. Isn't this basically what people were saying about Kiprusoff after his cup run? I believe he went on to win the Vezina two years later, no?

 

[NJ_Devil_Boy]

Dont take any of those ratings serious.

QFT

Remember Centomo (was a Maple Leaf). The guy played one game in 01-02 (after all the hype)...got this insane rating in HF (equiv. of a legendary goalie).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=43762

I found out after that day (at that time), each team GM/writer at HF made up all the rankings so there was really no general ranking pattern (aka...bias FTW!).

 

[Vagrant]

One hit is now spelled C-A-M W-A-R-D.
The guy did absoultley nothing in the reguler season and you'll see.
Samething will happen.

He did nothing in the regular season because he's a 21 year old goaltender that was as green as green could get. Plus, he didn't have the confidence to play at this level yet. I would say a Conn Smythe will give him a little bit of that.

Cam Ward may not be a world beater next year, but he will at the very least keep us in position to win hockey games. You can't really expect a 22 year old starting goaltender to set the world afire, and it remains to be seen which was the real Cam Ward the Playoff version or the Regular Season version, but my idea is that the real story is somewhere in between as it usually is. When you're a young developing goaltender, you're only as good as your last twenty or so games. Cam Ward was pretty darn good in his.

 

[da_pope*]

He did nothing in the regular season because he's a 21 year old goaltender that was as green as green could get. Plus, he didn't have the confidence to play at this level yet. I would say a Conn Smythe will give him a little bit of that.

Cam Ward may not be a world beater next year, but he will at the very least keep us in position to win hockey games. You can't really expect a 22 year old starting goaltender to set the world afire, and it remains to be seen which was the real Cam Ward the Playoff version or the Regular Season version, but my idea is that the real story is somewhere in between as it usually is. When you're a young developing goaltender, you're only as good as your last twenty or so games. Cam Ward was pretty darn good in his.

When he is compared to the like of Roy and Brouder. Yes, he should be a world beater next year.
But as you said, he won't be and that means these comparisons are baseless and way to premature. He also doesn't deserve that rating.

Oh and if you're only as good as your last 20 games, Huet must be one of the greatest tender's in the world.

 

[daikan]

But without a goalie who performs well in the regular season chances are you won't get to the playoffs

Well, in Cam Ward's 'horrible' regular season last year he did get 34 points in 28 games, which over 82 games would be 99 points - 7 more than Tampa Bay, who came 2nd in the division, got. I'm not saying it was a good regular season - it wasn't - but I think Carolina would've made the playoffs with Ward as their starter last season. Who knows though.

 

[da_pope*]

Funny. Isn't this basically what people were saying about Kiprusoff after his cup run? I believe he went on to win the Vezina two years later, no?

Ya. Kipper kind of owned in the reguler season aswell seeing how he was good enough for a Vezina nomination that year/

 

[likeavoss]

Ya. Kipper kind of owned in the reguler season aswell seeing how he was good enough for a Vezina nomination that year/

That's kind of my point. If Kipper can break out at twenty-seven years old into the best goaltender in the league, why does Ward only have until next season to prove himself as a "world beater?"

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Oh and if you're only as good as your last 20 games, Huet must be one of the greatest tender's in the world.

Did you miss the relevant part?

When you're a young developing goaltender, you're only as good as your last twenty or so games. Cam Ward was pretty darn good in his.

 

[Trottier]

Ok so Andrew Ladd will be more coveted than Ovechkin and Crosby since he has won the cup according to your theory?

First, as another poster points out, Ladd played a secondary (albeit important) role in Carolina's Cup run. Why is it so hard for some to distinguish between "core" players who are essential contributors to a team's playoff success vs. those who are not. This false comparsion between Conn Smyth winners and fourth liners is silly.

Second, only on HF : "My theory"? What a radical theory! That players are measured by the effect that personal achievement has on overall team accomplishment.

That Cups matter more than personal stats. That Cups are the ultimate measure of accomplishment and success.

How radical!

(Here, it's good enough for some to assess players totally out of context. As in: what his team does matters little/nothing at all. What he does for my fantasy team on the other hand!...)

***

Only on HF, Part II: How anyone who watches 2+ months of the most intense, grueling road to a championship can deem ANY player's contribution a "fluke" is truly bizarre. Ward and the Canes may never win another Cup. What they did was anything but a fluke. Get real.

 

[MasterD]

Who had a horrible stats in the regular season and while being very good in play-offs, didn't do anything THAT great (and played behind a great defensive team)?

I think at this point he could be a 8.0B, maybe 8.5B or 9.0C.

I mean while play-offs are naturally more important than regular season, we can't just dismiss the regular season like that.

I'm just wary of giving 9.0 rankings to players other than the likes of AO or Crosby.

ROFL the canes were being owned in the POs by the Habs until the guy came in and saved the day... big save after big save... LOL watch the games before you comment them next time

 

[fredez]

ROFL the canes were being owned in the POs by the Habs until the guy came in and saved the day... big save after big save... LOL watch the games before you comment them next time

I can testify. Without Ward the Habs would probably have swept the Canes, no joke.

Ward has a lot of potential and he is in the right environment to blossom but we never know what can happen, he could be a one hit wonder.

 

[Husky]

Let's see.. in his first year he's won a Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe.... Q: what's going to keep him motivated?


A: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I have a feeling Canes fans are gonna be calling for his head sometime in the next few years

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

Let's see.. in his first year he's won a Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe.... Q: what's going to keep him motivated?


A: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I have a feeling Canes fans are gonna be calling for his head sometime in the next few years

Me too...I don't see the Canes as a force in this league for a long time. And maybe they won't even make the playoffs this season because they lost some key players...

 

[Vagrant]

Me too...I don't see the Canes as a force in this league for a long time. And maybe they won't even make the playoffs this season because they lost some key players...

I may be mistaken, but I don't think a cup winner in the past twenty years has gone on to not make the playoffs. We only lost Ward and Cullen, and we replaced them with a roster spot for Anton Babchuk and Scott Walker. It really isn't as big of a deal as people claim. Losing Doug Weight's and Mark Recchi's 16 regular season points isn't going to impact this team a great deal. They were one of the best in the league without those rentals, and yet people count them as leaving as if it's part of the core group.

If you want to say everybody on the team had career years, then by all means. However, they're the same group that was in place last year. The top two lines are still the same.

Stillman - Staal - Cole
Ladd - Brind'Amour - Williams

That group of players is a legitimate top six, and they're all still here. Carolina will make the playoffs next year. Where they go from there, that's anybody's guess.

 

[Epsilon]

I may be mistaken, but I don't think a cup winner in the past twenty years has gone on to not make the playoffs..

New Jersey in 1996.

 

[Vagrant]

New Jersey in 1996.

Ah, yes. That's the ticket. Needless to say though, it's pretty rare.

 

[Plager05]

Different teams have different writers...some are more realistic than others.

Staal is a 8C while Michael Frolik is a 8B for crying out loud.

On the Blues board some of the Blues fans were bashing our writer for the Blues top 20 and he explained its mostly the Hf editors who pick the rankings. They need to just get rid of them.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

I may be mistaken, but I don't think a cup winner in the past twenty years has gone on to not make the playoffs. We only lost Ward and Cullen, and we replaced them with a roster spot for Anton Babchuk and Scott Walker. It really isn't as big of a deal as people claim. Losing Doug Weight's and Mark Recchi's 16 regular season points isn't going to impact this team a great deal. They were one of the best in the league without those rentals, and yet people count them as leaving as if it's part of the core group.

If you want to say everybody on the team had career years, then by all means. However, they're the same group that was in place last year. The top two lines are still the same.

Stillman - Staal - Cole
Ladd - Brind'Amour - Williams

That group of players is a legitimate top six, and they're all still here. Carolina will make the playoffs next year. Where they go from there, that's anybody's guess.

If you were really brave you'd post the defense pairings to start the season.