Player Discussion Cam Fowler

dracom

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Dec 22, 2015
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Milestones are nice to be recognized. If people want to comment, fine. But they don’t require the kind of discussion that goes on in evaluating the team and players all through the season.

There’s a lot of stuff posted on HF. People don’t always have a lot of time to spend here. Trying to narrow the scope of each thread is helpful and just a polite thing to do.
But also there’s nothing saying certain threads can only be used for certain posts according to certain people. And there’s nothing forcing people to spend what, 5 seconds to click on a thread and see what’s being posted. If you don’t care about what’s being posted, it’s faster to just go back a page instead of complaining about it.
 

ohcomeonref

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I mean I feel for you because you've obviously never been a fan of the team when things like that were happening regularly. But whatever why bump threads for important hockey milestones when we can post pictures of an 18 year old Henrique and Cam and compare their faces to today!

The purpose of those pictures isn't just "look at their faces". For me, I look at those pictures of Cam and it's: I can't believe how long this dude has been in the league already, when we got him he was just a kid! I reflect on his career with the Ducks, the fact he stuck early on the team when nobody thought he would, the excitement about his early point totals, the fact that he lived with Scotty (one of the most important Ducks ever)... If all you get from see those pictures is "face young, face old"... That's on you.
 
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Leonardo87

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Cam Fowler is tearing us apart

A6670BC3-3B5F-4D1A-8662-DF50CBB2C939.gif
 
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Ducks in a row

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Dec 17, 2013
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Is there a rule that says you have to like something you don't hate or else you forfeit the right to complain about useless off topic spam?

No one has to like or talk about something they don't want to but complaining about posts because they aren't happy about the posts and says the thread should be used for milestones but then when it is they don't talk about milestones or even give simple likes and then later complains again when they don't see posts that they like is annoying.

But also there’s nothing saying certain threads can only be used for certain posts according to certain people. And there’s nothing forcing people to spend what, 5 seconds to click on a thread and see what’s being posted. If you don’t care about what’s being posted, it’s faster to just go back a page instead of complaining about it.

Ya if a person doesn't care about whats being posted its better to just say nothing. When you complain it can just cause problems and here we are.

I see things that don't interest me all the time, I ignore and move along. That's the nature of the internet and of life.

Yep and just like in real life some people like to complain about things instead of simply leaving it be.
 

Ducks DVM

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Jun 6, 2010
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Ok, enough with the baiting, flaming, and mod attempts on all sides. The mods are discussing how we will handle the player threads and will get back to you. In the meantime, if you don’t like it, just back out and don’t comment, and if people are posting what is just spam, it’ll get deleted and/or you’ll be told to take it to the off-topic thread.

Thank you
 
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branmuffin17

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Sep 10, 2014
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To get back on track for the player discussion on Fowler, we've had some people that are positive about his current play, and some that are still seeing the negative.

Recent discussion on game threads have been talking about him being a possible pillar of the Ducks D (along with Lindholm, and some advocating Manson with others not), or scoffing at the idea.

As a Fowler fan (I enjoy players with great skating skills for one), I want to point out some things that, to me, solidify him as a D-man we can rely on, and is at least semi-worth his contract (and I feel should be through the majority of it, though it remains to be seen).

His skating has always been basically elite. His ability to circle out of trouble, create some space, and either skate the puck out of our zone or connect on a good outlet pass, is unrivaled on our team. Some of the ways and directions he skates under pressure are surprising and impressive.

His physicality has always been the opposite. But in the modern NHL, it's been moving toward more speed and skill, and he fits right in with that, and with the more modern system employed by Eakins. He (and the team as a whole) have struggled in the past due to playing old-time hockey (a la Randy Carlyle) and pretending they were still big (2007 roster including physical D in Pronger, Beauch, O'Donnell). Now he's closer to thriving, and it's because he's being used as his skill-set demands.

Some key stats:
  • Plus/Minus: +8 (tied with Gudbranson and Del Zotto (!) as the highest on the team, but he's played 11 games more than those 2). Yes, +/- is a weak stat, but having been known as a player that tends to be negative, this is a positive (no pun intended).
  • Injury: As of right now (33 games into the 2019/20 season), he is one of 7 players that have played in all games, and the only D to have done so. Yes, he's seemed injury prone in the past, and knock on wood he doesn't get hurt later in the season, but he's been healthy to this point. And you can't really count freak injuries (like last year's facial injury) as being injury prone.
  • 6 goals / 10 assists on an offensively struggling team. He's on pace to having a significantly better offensive year than the past 3 years, and can easily outpace his highest goal season (11 toal in 16-17).
  • $6.5 is a lot. And we'll have him until he's 34/35, in 2025/26. But with salaries on the rise, and keeping him through his "prime" years, as long as he stays healthy, this isn't a terrible contract. Perhaps a bit on the high side, but the things he brings to the team are pretty unique.
We all want the most well-rounded, elite D in the league, but almost no teams have that. Instead, I think we're fairly lucky to have Lindholm and Fowler splitting defensive and offensive D roles, and we could be a LOT worse off ($26.5 million in Karlsson/Burns/Vlasic for the Sharks as an example).

Yes, the mismanagement of our D corps (bye Theodore, Montour, Pettersson, Vatanen, etc.) have hurt the Ducks, but they're still primed to be fairly solid on D for years to come. Gudbranson has been a pleasant surprise so far too, and seemingly a perfect pairing for Cam. Keep in mind, for a good amount of his recent past, he's been playing with players that are of questionable quality, and often those that are considered best as a 3rd pairing...Del Zotto (who I actually like for the most part), Guhle, Larsson, etc. And he's often skated on his off-side.

In any case, I'm in defense of Cam being a core D for the Ducks future, and it helps seeing his success in a system that benefits his skills.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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To get back on track for the player discussion on Fowler, we've had some people that are positive about his current play, and some that are still seeing the negative.

Recent discussion on game threads have been talking about him being a possible pillar of the Ducks D (along with Lindholm, and some advocating Manson with others not), or scoffing at the idea.

As a Fowler fan (I enjoy players with great skating skills for one), I want to point out some things that, to me, solidify him as a D-man we can rely on, and is at least semi-worth his contract (and I feel should be through the majority of it, though it remains to be seen).

His skating has always been basically elite. His ability to circle out of trouble, create some space, and either skate the puck out of our zone or connect on a good outlet pass, is unrivaled on our team. Some of the ways and directions he skates under pressure are surprising and impressive.

His physicality has always been the opposite. But in the modern NHL, it's been moving toward more speed and skill, and he fits right in with that, and with the more modern system employed by Eakins. He (and the team as a whole) have struggled in the past due to playing old-time hockey (a la Randy Carlyle) and pretending they were still big (2007 roster including physical D in Pronger, Beauch, O'Donnell). Now he's closer to thriving, and it's because he's being used as his skill-set demands.

Some key stats:
  • Plus/Minus: +8 (tied with Gudbranson and Del Zotto (!) as the highest on the team, but he's played 11 games more than those 2). Yes, +/- is a weak stat, but having been known as a player that tends to be negative, this is a positive (no pun intended).
  • Injury: As of right now (33 games into the 2019/20 season), he is one of 7 players that have played in all games, and the only D to have done so. Yes, he's seemed injury prone in the past, and knock on wood he doesn't get hurt later in the season, but he's been healthy to this point. And you can't really count freak injuries (like last year's facial injury) as being injury prone.
  • 6 goals / 10 assists on an offensively struggling team. He's on pace to having a significantly better offensive year than the past 3 years, and can easily outpace his highest goal season (11 toal in 16-17).
  • $6.5 is a lot. And we'll have him until he's 34/35, in 2025/26. But with salaries on the rise, and keeping him through his "prime" years, as long as he stays healthy, this isn't a terrible contract. Perhaps a bit on the high side, but the things he brings to the team are pretty unique.
We all want the most well-rounded, elite D in the league, but almost no teams have that. Instead, I think we're fairly lucky to have Lindholm and Fowler splitting defensive and offensive D roles, and we could be a LOT worse off ($26.5 million in Karlsson/Burns/Vlasic for the Sharks as an example).

Yes, the mismanagement of our D corps (bye Theodore, Montour, Pettersson, Vatanen, etc.) have hurt the Ducks, but they're still primed to be fairly solid on D for years to come. Gudbranson has been a pleasant surprise so far too, and seemingly a perfect pairing for Cam. Keep in mind, for a good amount of his recent past, he's been playing with players that are of questionable quality, and often those that are considered best as a 3rd pairing...Del Zotto (who I actually like for the most part), Guhle, Larsson, etc. And he's often skated on his off-side.

In any case, I'm in defense of Cam being a core D for the Ducks future, and it helps seeing his success in a system that benefits his skills.

I agree for the most part... Eakins has realized what majority of our other coaches failed to realize... Fowlers best asset is his skating... and fowlers best form of defensive skills is basically winning dump ins/races to the puck and not allowing teams to get set up. Hell beat most people to the puck and with his skating/passing/transition game hell be able to do a pretty good job getting the puck back out of the zone and up the ice.

Part of the reason that Fowlers +/- is positive is because eakins isn't putting him in position to fail.... he has a 60% ozone start, which means a good portion of his play is started across the ice from the dzone, now you add to the fact were 1 of the better face off teams in the league, that means 52% of those 60% ozone starts we also have control of the puck... you play around with the puck and generate chances until other team needs to make a line change, or get out of their zone and dump it in, and guess what... fowler retrieves that dump in easily and turns it up ice. Id be very interested to see a stat of how much time Fowler spends in his own zone vs nuetralzone vs defensive zone.

Fowler isn't a guy you want trying to win net front battles/board battles... but if you give him the type of zone starts hes gotten this year hes going to be very tough to get zone time against him. Its very good coaching by Eakins... and fowlers returned the favor by being more creative/aggressive offensively... and looking more confident defensively in situations where the puck is in the dzone.


Things id like to see get better(admittedly some have seemed to get better)
- A lot of times him and getzlaf just take random bad shots on Powerplay when we have full control of puck … there is no rush just keep working it around until you get a good shot.l
- Id rather not see Fowler take point shots, play to your strengths, use your skating to skate around and pull defenders out of place to open up lanes for other players and if the defender doesn't pull with you, possibly give your self a better look closer to the net.
- I like Gudbranson/Manson with fowler because that generally means fowler can focus on chasing loose pucks in the dzone instead of battling infront of the net.

Either way hes been much better this year... and despite what people think he is the 2nd best Dmen on the roster, and will be with the team for duration of his contract... he is good at what he does, the problem with him was always the coaches putting him in positions that were not meant for his play style.

People often laugh when people call fowler a 2 way defender... because hes not particularly good in his own end.. but to me 2way defenders are the types of defenders that defend by not having to defend, and that's where fowler falls.
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
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I absolutely hate his contract length but he's been awesome this season and to suggest that we will hand him to Seattle in the ED is absolutely ridiculous.

Speaking of which the poster who keeps suggesting that never responds when asked why they think we would do that.
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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Some people will always see the negative, no matter how he plays. It’s no longer about that. He’s just become a target.
Fowler has the fans that absolutely love him and think he does nothing wrong, and then he has the fans that will go off everytime he does something slightly wrong. Leads to a lot more arguments in game day threads. He has a lot of extremists.


You cant mention fowler in a negative context without starting an argument
 

MilesNewton

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Jul 7, 2019
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I agree for the most part... Eakins has realized what majority of our other coaches failed to realize... Fowlers best asset is his skating... and fowlers best form of defensive skills is basically winning dump ins/races to the puck and not allowing teams to get set up. Hell beat most people to the puck and with his skating/passing/transition game hell be able to do a pretty good job getting the puck back out of the zone and up the ice.

Part of the reason that Fowlers +/- is positive is because eakins isn't putting him in position to fail.... he has a 60% ozone start, which means a good portion of his play is started across the ice from the dzone, now you add to the fact were 1 of the better face off teams in the league, that means 52% of those 60% ozone starts we also have control of the puck... you play around with the puck and generate chances until other team needs to make a line change, or get out of their zone and dump it in, and guess what... fowler retrieves that dump in easily and turns it up ice. Id be very interested to see a stat of how much time Fowler spends in his own zone vs nuetralzone vs defensive zone.

Fowler isn't a guy you want trying to win net front battles/board battles... but if you give him the type of zone starts hes gotten this year hes going to be very tough to get zone time against him. Its very good coaching by Eakins... and fowlers returned the favor by being more creative/aggressive offensively... and looking more confident defensively in situations where the puck is in the dzone.


Things id like to see get better(admittedly some have seemed to get better)
- A lot of times him and getzlaf just take random bad shots on Powerplay when we have full control of puck … there is no rush just keep working it around until you get a good shot.l
- Id rather not see Fowler take point shots, play to your strengths, use your skating to skate around and pull defenders out of place to open up lanes for other players and if the defender doesn't pull with you, possibly give your self a better look closer to the net.
- I like Gudbranson/Manson with fowler because that generally means fowler can focus on chasing loose pucks in the dzone instead of battling infront of the net.

Either way hes been much better this year... and despite what people think he is the 2nd best Dmen on the roster, and will be with the team for duration of his contract... he is good at what he does, the problem with him was always the coaches putting him in positions that were not meant for his play style.

People often laugh when people call fowler a 2 way defender... because hes not particularly good in his own end.. but to me 2way defenders are the types of defenders that defend by not having to defend, and that's where fowler falls.
possibly not in a position to fail because they might trade him? Just not sold on either Manson or Fowler for their contracts or how they have been playing.
 

Sean Garrity

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Dec 25, 2007
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I agree for the most part... Eakins has realized what majority of our other coaches failed to realize... Fowlers best asset is his skating... and fowlers best form of defensive skills is basically winning dump ins/races to the puck and not allowing teams to get set up. Hell beat most people to the puck and with his skating/passing/transition game hell be able to do a pretty good job getting the puck back out of the zone and up the ice.

Part of the reason that Fowlers +/- is positive is because eakins isn't putting him in position to fail.... he has a 60% ozone start, which means a good portion of his play is started across the ice from the dzone, now you add to the fact were 1 of the better face off teams in the league, that means 52% of those 60% ozone starts we also have control of the puck... you play around with the puck and generate chances until other team needs to make a line change, or get out of their zone and dump it in, and guess what... fowler retrieves that dump in easily and turns it up ice. Id be very interested to see a stat of how much time Fowler spends in his own zone vs nuetralzone vs defensive zone.

Fowler isn't a guy you want trying to win net front battles/board battles... but if you give him the type of zone starts hes gotten this year hes going to be very tough to get zone time against him. Its very good coaching by Eakins... and fowlers returned the favor by being more creative/aggressive offensively... and looking more confident defensively in situations where the puck is in the dzone.


Things id like to see get better(admittedly some have seemed to get better)
- A lot of times him and getzlaf just take random bad shots on Powerplay when we have full control of puck … there is no rush just keep working it around until you get a good shot.l
- Id rather not see Fowler take point shots, play to your strengths, use your skating to skate around and pull defenders out of place to open up lanes for other players and if the defender doesn't pull with you, possibly give your self a better look closer to the net.
- I like Gudbranson/Manson with fowler because that generally means fowler can focus on chasing loose pucks in the dzone instead of battling infront of the net.

Either way hes been much better this year... and despite what people think he is the 2nd best Dmen on the roster, and will be with the team for duration of his contract... he is good at what he does, the problem with him was always the coaches putting him in positions that were not meant for his play style.

People often laugh when people call fowler a 2 way defender... because hes not particularly good in his own end.. but to me 2way defenders are the types of defenders that defend by not having to defend, and that's where fowler falls.

Well put, I would add that a strength of his is also keeping good gap control and/or slowing a team down when they're trying to transition. Again, by starting him in the neutral zone or offensive zone highlights this strength. No doubt he needs to be better on the PP, but I still think he's not a PP QB in the traditional sense and should be utilized in more of a rover role. This would highlight his strengths in terms of his skating to retrieve loose pucks and dart in to holes which will open up more lanes for others and he has a damn good wrist shot. Honestly one of our better shooters when he's in the slot. I wouldn't mind a Lindholm-Fowler pairing on the PP with Lindholm in the more traditional PP QB role, but I doubt that's going to happen. We still need a true PP QB.

possibly not in a position to fail because they might trade him? Just not sold on either Manson or Fowler for their contracts or how they have been playing.

What has been wrong with Fowler's play this year? I just think some people have too high of expectations for him. As Getz2noone pointed out, he for sure has his flaws as a player and those likely are not going to change. It'd be like expecting Holzer to be a top 4 dman, that simply isn't going to happen. I understand that it's frustrating, but similarly people can bang their head against the wall when Holzer messes up, but that's what borderline NHL players do.
 

TheGoodShepard1

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It's amazing to me that he even has 5 points so far in 18 games. I didn't mind his extension when it was signed (though I thought it was a slight overpayment), but he looks like he can't even be bothered to use his best asset (his skating) to progress the puck up the ice anymore. It's like he views the blue lines as if it were a raging river and he is a horse afraid to cross the stream
 

Leonardo87

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I’ve been ok with Fowler. He has been up and down and not one of the ones who have been stuck in a black hole like Shattenkirk or Henrique. I think with better offense from the forwards and a better PP will get him going. It’s just been a weird bad season for a lot of players but feel he is battling.
 

Gliff

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It's amazing to me that he even has 5 points so far in 18 games. I didn't mind his extension when it was signed (though I thought it was a slight overpayment), but he looks like he can't even be bothered to use his best asset (his skating) to progress the puck up the ice anymore. It's like he views the blue lines as if it were a raging river and he is a horse afraid to cross the stream

Cam is who he is. He is a guy that is good at everything without any standout feature except his skating, but he doesn't use his skating in the neutral zone or offensive zone.

He is never going to be the best defensemen on a cup team, but he is 100% a solid 2/3 guy and his contract is fine.
 
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Cam is who he is. He is a guy that is good at everything without any standout feature except his skating, but he doesn't use his skating in the neutral zone or offensive zone.

He is never going to be the best defensemen on a cup team, but he is 100% a solid 2/3 guy and his contract is fine.

I think Cam more than anyone gets hated for who or what he's not.
 

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