Player Discussion Cam Fowler

[Paul4587]

I’m gonna preface this comment by saying I’m not a big Fowler fan but am a big Lindholm fan but I don’t get how Fowler is getting destroyed on these boards while Lindholm is getting a free ride for his play the past few games.

Hampus has completely forgotten how to handle a puck and make a pass, every time he gets the puck it explodes on his stick. What used to be a strength of his is now more often than not a weakness. On the rare nights he shows he can handle the puck he looks like a Norris candidate but those might are fewer and further between nowdays.

Fowler has been bad but our other top LD is getting no blame when he’s also part of the problem. Both have massive consistency issues, with Fowler he tends to play well/poorly over longer periods where as with Hampus it’s more a case of you never know what player you’ll get on any given night, one game he will dominate and the next he turns into a pumpkin.

 

[Deuce22]

I’m gonna preface this comment by saying I’m not a big Fowler fan but am a big Lindholm fan but I don’t get how Fowler is getting destroyed on these boards while Lindholm is getting a free ride for his play the past few games.

Hampus has completely forgotten how to handle a puck and make a pass, every time he gets the puck it explodes on his stick. What used to be a strength of his is now more often than not a weakness. On the rare nights he shows he can handle the puck he looks like a Norris candidate but those might are fewer and further between nowdays.

Fowler has been bad but our other top LD is getting no blame when he’s also part of the problem. Both have massive consistency issues, with Fowler he tends to play well/poorly over longer periods where as with Hampus it’s more a case of you never know what player you’ll get on any given night, one game he will dominate and the next he turns into a pumpkin.

Not speaking for everyone, just myself. I've never been a Fowler fan. He's soft, defensively mediocre, and is not improving. I get sick of the media telling me how he's great and the future captain. The coach and GM obviously think he's very good, that damned contract says it all. Lindholm has been inconsistent this year, like the entire team.

 

[Paul4587]

Not speaking for everyone, just myself. I've never been a Fowler fan. He's soft, defensively mediocre, and is not improving. I get sick of the media telling me how he's great and the future captain. The coach and GM obviously think he's very good, that damned contract says it all. Lindholm has been inconsistent this year, like the entire team.

I agree with many of your points regarding Fowler but I was just curious as to why there’s a double standard.

I think Fowler used in the right role could be a very valuable piece. Unfortunately for us he has always been put into a role that’s over his head.

 

[Magnus the Duck]

I agree with many of your points regarding Fowler but I was just curious as to why there’s a double standard.

Maybe you are the one with double standards. You are very quick to complain about Lindholm's stupid mistakes, even in this thread when nobody was talking about Lindholm.

 

[AngelDuck]

I’m gonna preface this comment by saying I’m not a big Fowler fan but am a big Lindholm fan but I don’t get how Fowler is getting destroyed on these boards while Lindholm is getting a free ride for his play the past few games.

Hampus has completely forgotten how to handle a puck and make a pass, every time he gets the puck it explodes on his stick. What used to be a strength of his is now more often than not a weakness. On the rare nights he shows he can handle the puck he looks like a Norris candidate but those might are fewer and further between nowdays.

Fowler has been bad but our other top LD is getting no blame when he’s also part of the problem. Both have massive consistency issues, with Fowler he tends to play well/poorly over longer periods where as with Hampus it’s more a case of you never know what player you’ll get on any given night, one game he will dominate and the next he turns into a pumpkin.

Lindholm is still probably our best defenseman overall. Fowler is the 4th best dman on this team playing at his current level. It’s a huge problem paying him his salary for that kind of return. Hopefully he turns it around under the next coach

 

[Paul4587]

Maybe you are the one with double standards. You are very quick to complain about Lindholm's stupid mistakes, even in this thread when nobody was talking about Lindholm.

Go through my post history. I’m one of his quickest defenders normally but the fact is his puck control and passing has been for the most part awful this season and is regarding every season . I’m asking why is he immune to criticism while Fowler is constantly ripped on?

 

[Paul4587]

Lindholm is still probably our best defenseman overall. Fowler is the 4th best dman on this team playing at his current level. It’s a huge problem paying him his salary for that kind of return. Hopefully he turns it around under the next coach

Yeah he is and I don’t think it’s close but I’m still really underwhelmed by his progress and even regression in areas that shouldn’t be regressing at his age.

 

[Lyons71]

Fowler too afraid to stop the shot on the Jets first goal, and then with a pathetic fly by on the OT goal today. He’s toast. I never expected to see him regress like this before 30.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I’m gonna preface this comment by saying I’m not a big Fowler fan but am a big Lindholm fan but I don’t get how Fowler is getting destroyed on these boards while Lindholm is getting a free ride for his play the past few games.

Hampus has completely forgotten how to handle a puck and make a pass, every time he gets the puck it explodes on his stick. What used to be a strength of his is now more often than not a weakness. On the rare nights he shows he can handle the puck he looks like a Norris candidate but those might are fewer and further between nowdays.

Fowler has been bad but our other top LD is getting no blame when he’s also part of the problem. Both have massive consistency issues, with Fowler he tends to play well/poorly over longer periods where as with Hampus it’s more a case of you never know what player you’ll get on any given night, one game he will dominate and the next he turns into a pumpkin.

I think lindholm is a guy that hates losing, the way the season has gone he seems like he is over thinking and guilty of trying to do to much.

I think fowler gets a lot of attention due to soft plays/effort and his contract. The ot goal is typical fowler.... no reason you should be leaving 2 jets free for rebounds while you do a fly by. Its just unacceptable, specially when the team is on a 10 game losing streak.

 

[Dryish]

You guys shouldn't be giving anyone a free pass. Yes, Fowler is playing like garbage, has been playing like garbage for a better part of two whole seasons now (albeit injuries throwing some spanners into the works), and there's frankly little to go on with in terms of defending his play. But neither has Lindholm played too well recently, or at all this season, or even at the end of last season. Montour has been worse than we've hoped too and even Manson has had his honestly worryingly bad spells.

Our D just isn't as good as was touted. Who knows whether that's because of the way Randy makes them play, which would be my guess, or because they're just not as good as we hoped they'd be. And that's not going to improve any time soon either. Whatever is making them as bad as they are right now is something that's created by the circumstances, and those remain woefully unchanged.

 

[pbgoalie]

Lindholm seems to go through spurts where the puck bobbles on his stick.
He also seems to have games where it looks like somebody switched his skates for Bobby Ryan’s old skates....it’s weird......but I never really get worried about Hampus.

With Fowler, he seems timid, and after injuries, really shy away from physical.

Manson seems like he’s just kind of lost.....be more offensive? Be more stay at home?

And Montour plays like a dog that hasn’t been exercised enough

Maybe it’s system, maybe it’s actual positional coaching, but I feel like there a lot of potential not being reached yet

 

[Bender66]

Lindholm seems to go through spurts where the puck bobbles on his stick.
He also seems to have games where it looks like somebody switched his skates for Bobby Ryan’s old skates....it’s weird......but I never really get worried about Hampus.

With Fowler, he seems timid, and after injuries, really shy away from physical.

Manson seems like he’s just kind of lost.....be more offensive? Be more stay at home?

And Montour plays like a dog that hasn’t been exercised enough

Maybe it’s system, maybe it’s actual positional coaching, but I feel like there a lot of potential not being reached yet

LOL, perfect description re: montour.

 

[Goose of Reason]

You guys shouldn't be giving anyone a free pass. Yes, Fowler is playing like garbage, has been playing like garbage for a better part of two whole seasons now (albeit injuries throwing some spanners into the works), and there's frankly little to go on with in terms of defending his play. But neither has Lindholm played too well recently, or at all this season, or even at the end of last season. Montour has been worse than we've hoped too and even Manson has had his honestly worryingly bad spells.

Our D just isn't as good as was touted. Who knows whether that's because of the way Randy makes them play, which would be my guess, or because they're just not as good as we hoped they'd be. And that's not going to improve any time soon either. Whatever is making them as bad as they are right now is something that's created by the circumstances, and those remain woefully unchanged.

I know it's a simplistic answer, but I really think coaching has a lot to do with how bad our defenders look so consistently. Everyone we trade goes on to look great with their new team.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Fowler would bring back a ransom for the contract length alone

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I know it's a simplistic answer, but I really think coaching has a lot to do with how bad our defenders look so consistently. Everyone we trade goes on to look great with their new team.

Vats is having a pretty crap year.

 

[Duck Off]

He’s kind of starting to turn into the defenseman version of Bobby Ryan. Used to be good but there has been a massive drop in his game the last couple seasons

Fowler looks like the classic case of a defenseman who seems content with what he is.

 

[Duck Off]

I’m gonna preface this comment by saying I’m not a big Fowler fan but am a big Lindholm fan but I don’t get how Fowler is getting destroyed on these boards while Lindholm is getting a free ride for his play the past few games.

Hampus has completely forgotten how to handle a puck and make a pass, every time he gets the puck it explodes on his stick. What used to be a strength of his is now more often than not a weakness. On the rare nights he shows he can handle the puck he looks like a Norris candidate but those might are fewer and further between nowdays.

Fowler has been bad but our other top LD is getting no blame when he’s also part of the problem. Both have massive consistency issues, with Fowler he tends to play well/poorly over longer periods where as with Hampus it’s more a case of you never know what player you’ll get on any given night, one game he will dominate and the next he turns into a pumpkin.

I think it's because when Hampus struggles, his miscues are not as catastrophic so to speak. I think the many on here who refer to Hampus as a #1 are off. He's not consistent enough with the puck for me to call a "#1". That said, his defensive game remains extremely consistent which is why often when he stinks with the puck, his gap control and overall defensive game don't struggle so he still plays like a top 2 guy. Whereas when Fowler sucks, he looks like awful. The other thing that comes to my mind is with Hampus, it never seems like an effort issue. I don't feel that same way with Fowler. I almost want Fowler to just stop trying to do too much. Just focus on your defensive play and get consistent there first. That flyby was awful in our last game. I don't think that was lazy play though. I think he was going for homerun breakout, which still was a massive, stupid mistake. You're correct in that there's a double standard on here though. There's a few players that the majority of the board feels the need to instantly defend over the years I've been here (Hampus, Silfverberg, and Selanne come instantly to mind). I've consistently said Hampus is our best defenseman and have often been labeled a "Fowler lover". Whatever the f*** that means..

 

[AngelDuck]

Fowler looks like the classic case of a defenseman who seems content with what he is.

The concern is that he's getting worse. I totally think it could be coaching but he just doesn't look comfortable out there the last two years. If he were stagnating, that would be one thing but his current level of play this season is the worst we've seen of him in his career, both offensively and defensively. That's just weird for a 27 year old defenseman.

 

[Paul4587]

The concern is that he's getting worse. I totally think it could be coaching but he just doesn't look comfortable out there the last two years. If he were stagnating, that would be one thing but his current level of play this season is the worst we've seen of him in his career, both offensively and defensively. That's just weird for a 27 year old defenseman.

Imo Offensively he’s about the same as normal and is on pace for his usual 35 or so points per 82 games. Defensively I agree, he’s not as good positionally as normal, he’s losing more battles in front of the net and seems far more timid. And despite playing with Manson he’s putting up truly abysmal possession numbers.

 

[Duck Off]

The concern is that he's getting worse. I totally think it could be coaching but he just doesn't look comfortable out there the last two years. If he were stagnating, that would be one thing but his current level of play this season is the worst we've seen of him in his career, both offensively and defensively. That's just weird for a 27 year old defenseman.

I'm not too worried about him being worse. He's had stretches this year where he's awful, but I've seen those stretches in previous years as well. Like Paul said, defensively he's probably had the roughest stretch, but i still don't see it as that different as opposed to other years. What I fear is that he busted his ass a few offseasons ago because he knew contract discussions were imminent. After he signed the contract, he didn't seem as eager to be great. He's a player that confidence affects more than most, and whether it's injuries or coaching (probably some of both), he seems to lack any confidence this year.

 

[branmuffin17]

So I'm honestly curious how much everyone thinks Fowler is worth...both to the team, and to the rest of the league (at least those that would look for the services of a mobile D).

I know we've got people with a wide range of opinions on him. Some say get the hell rid of him. Some think he's okay (at least given a decent team). I'm obviously of the latter, as I've made that known, but still...

Pros:

• Mobile skater
• Zone breakout (when he has control)
• Good first pass
• Potential for minute-munching if needed
• 27 years old, $6.5 until 2026(?), taking him to around 35

Cons:

• No physicality
• Seems a bit injury prone (multiple knee issues, the face fracture thing doesn't count)
• Offense leaves something to be desired for an offensive D-man
• $6.5 until 2026

I find 6.5 to be on the high side for what he's brought on average (but don't count this year cuz every single person is sucking), but at the same time, if he can get back to previous form when people were happier with him, it might be a reasonable deal. It's not unreasonable to think he can do it, because it's become more and more obvious that Carlyle has likely been destroying the players with his systems.

Anyway, it seems some people are saying get rid of him for cheap, but others saying he's worth a 1st round pick plus. Which one are you?

 

[Deuce22]

So I'm honestly curious how much everyone thinks Fowler is worth...both to the team, and to the rest of the league (at least those that would look for the services of a mobile D).

I know we've got people with a wide range of opinions on him. Some say get the hell rid of him. Some think he's okay (at least given a decent team). I'm obviously of the latter, as I've made that known, but still...

Pros:

• Mobile skater
• Zone breakout (when he has control)
• Good first pass
• Potential for minute-munching if needed
• 27 years old, $6.5 until 2026(?), taking him to around 35

Cons:

• No physicality
• Seems a bit injury prone (multiple knee issues, the face fracture thing doesn't count)
• Offense leaves something to be desired for an offensive D-man
• $6.5 until 2026

I find 6.5 to be on the high side for what he's brought on average (but don't count this year cuz every single person is sucking), but at the same time, if he can get back to previous form when people were happier with him, it might be a reasonable deal. It's not unreasonable to think he can do it, because it's become more and more obvious that Carlyle has likely been destroying the players with his systems.

Anyway, it seems some people are saying get rid of him for cheap, but others saying he's worth a 1st round pick plus. Which one are you?

He's Murray's boy, so I think he would value him higher than opposing GM's. I think his value is lower than it was a couple of years ago, so I wouldn't be expecting a great return.

 

[Sean Garrity]

So I'm honestly curious how much everyone thinks Fowler is worth...both to the team, and to the rest of the league (at least those that would look for the services of a mobile D).

I know we've got people with a wide range of opinions on him. Some say get the hell rid of him. Some think he's okay (at least given a decent team). I'm obviously of the latter, as I've made that known, but still...

Pros:

• Mobile skater
• Zone breakout (when he has control)
• Good first pass
• Potential for minute-munching if needed
• 27 years old, $6.5 until 2026(?), taking him to around 35

Cons:

• No physicality
• Seems a bit injury prone (multiple knee issues, the face fracture thing doesn't count)
• Offense leaves something to be desired for an offensive D-man
• $6.5 until 2026

I find 6.5 to be on the high side for what he's brought on average (but don't count this year cuz every single person is sucking), but at the same time, if he can get back to previous form when people were happier with him, it might be a reasonable deal. It's not unreasonable to think he can do it, because it's become more and more obvious that Carlyle has likely been destroying the players with his systems.

Anyway, it seems some people are saying get rid of him for cheap, but others saying he's worth a 1st round pick plus. Which one are you?

The $6.5M price tag that he comes with is about on par for a defenseman of his caliber. You have some bargains in the range a la Karlsson and Pietro as well as some overpayments a la Boychuk and Seabrook. He gets a lot of flack on these boards, and rightfully so but his contract still isn't horrid like many will have you to believe. He's soft, he has been his entire career and that's not going to change. However, out of all our defenseman I'm still the most confident that when the puck is on his stick that he's going to make the right play and his transition game is still elite. You can't get rid of him for cheap, if there's a hockey deal to be made for him then I'm all for it, but he isn't the main problem.

 

[Sean Garrity]

So I'm honestly curious how much everyone thinks Fowler is worth...both to the team, and to the rest of the league (at least those that would look for the services of a mobile D).

I know we've got people with a wide range of opinions on him. Some say get the hell rid of him. Some think he's okay (at least given a decent team). I'm obviously of the latter, as I've made that known, but still...

Pros:

• Mobile skater
• Zone breakout (when he has control)
• Good first pass
• Potential for minute-munching if needed
• 27 years old, $6.5 until 2026(?), taking him to around 35

Cons:

• No physicality
• Seems a bit injury prone (multiple knee issues, the face fracture thing doesn't count)
• Offense leaves something to be desired for an offensive D-man
• $6.5 until 2026

I find 6.5 to be on the high side for what he's brought on average (but don't count this year cuz every single person is sucking), but at the same time, if he can get back to previous form when people were happier with him, it might be a reasonable deal. It's not unreasonable to think he can do it, because it's become more and more obvious that Carlyle has likely been destroying the players with his systems.

Anyway, it seems some people are saying get rid of him for cheap, but others saying he's worth a 1st round pick plus. Which one are you?

The $6.5M price tag that he comes with is about on par for a defenseman of his caliber. You have some bargains in the range a la Karlsson and Pietro as well as some overpayments a la Boychuk and Seabrook. He gets a lot of flack on these boards, and rightfully so but his contract still isn't horrid like many will have you to believe. He's soft, he has been his entire career and that's not going to change. However, out of all our defenseman I'm still the most confident that when the puck is on his stick that he's going to make the right play and his transition game is still elite. He's not an offensive defenseman, that'll likely never be his strong suit. He's a smooth skating 2-way defenseman, but as you mentioned leg injuries are a bit concerning given his reliance on that skating. You can't get rid of him for cheap, if there's a hockey deal to be made for him then I'm all for it, but he isn't the main problem. By most of our opinions, the main problem is gone so the rest of this season will likely be a measuring tool used by Coach GMBM.

 

[Duck Off]

So I'm honestly curious how much everyone thinks Fowler is worth...both to the team, and to the rest of the league (at least those that would look for the services of a mobile D).

I know we've got people with a wide range of opinions on him. Some say get the hell rid of him. Some think he's okay (at least given a decent team). I'm obviously of the latter, as I've made that known, but still...

Pros:

• Mobile skater
• Zone breakout (when he has control)
• Good first pass
• Potential for minute-munching if needed
• 27 years old, $6.5 until 2026(?), taking him to around 35

Cons:

• No physicality
• Seems a bit injury prone (multiple knee issues, the face fracture thing doesn't count)
• Offense leaves something to be desired for an offensive D-man
• $6.5 until 2026

I find 6.5 to be on the high side for what he's brought on average (but don't count this year cuz every single person is sucking), but at the same time, if he can get back to previous form when people were happier with him, it might be a reasonable deal. It's not unreasonable to think he can do it, because it's become more and more obvious that Carlyle has likely been destroying the players with his systems.

Anyway, it seems some people are saying get rid of him for cheap, but others saying he's worth a 1st round pick plus. Which one are you?

Those that seem so eager to get rid of him simply can’t get over his flaws. He’s a frustrating as hell type of player. However his contract is in line for #2 defenseman, and IMO, we need him more than a winger like some say. If you get top dollar for him, you consider moving him, but reality to me is he’s a lot more important/valuable to this team than people give credit for. In a year where everyone other than Gibson and Ritchie have been disappointing, people are for whatever reason, quickest to point out his mistakes first.

 

[duckpuck]

Those that seem so eager to get rid of him simply can’t get over his flaws. He’s a frustrating as hell type of player. However his contract is in line for #2 defenseman, and IMO, we need him more than a winger like some say. If you get top dollar for him, you consider moving him, but reality to me is he’s a lot more important/valuable to this team than people give credit for. In a year where everyone other than Gibson and Ritchie have been disappointing, people are for whatever reason, quickest to point out his mistakes first.

Gardiner's UFA contract this summer will be a good measure for comparison, unless he takes a hometown discount. I think Cam's salary is about right given the term and the likelihood that the cap and salaries will rise. That being said, I wouldn't have a problem if the Ducks moved on from Fowler at some point. My guess is most of the changes/trades will happen this summer other than the pending UFAs (Silf).