Calgary's pick?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by sehnsucht, Apr 24, 2004.

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  1. sehnsucht

    sehnsucht Registered User

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    I'm not well versed on this years potential 1st rounders so what kind of players will pop up around 20th or so that are Sutter type players? By that I mean what guys are the kind that Darryl Sutter loves? (i.e. not some fancy european sniper/skater that mails in 3 out of every 4 games, a gritty guy that always works hard and forechecks and backchecks hard, responsible defensively with some speed, not afraid to take punishment and score garbage goals, etc. Think Shean Donovan or Chris Clark)

    one guy that I think matches this description is Chipchura, but will he still be around a bit past 20th? what other guys are like that?

    I'm looking for forwards here. Our defence is set for life and we have a few goalie prospects
     
  2. sehnsucht

    sehnsucht Registered User

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    anybody?
     
  3. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

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    Chipchura is probably your best bet, but don't count on him being there when you pick.
     
  4. meds09

    meds09 Registered User

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    You people on here who think Chipchura is nothing but a penalty killer, defensive player, you are wrong. If you were able to watch him for half a year or even 5 games, you would realize the skill this guy has. He probably has one of the best set of hands in this draft and can control the play like non other. People under estimate this guy's skill level. His defensive game and leadership qualities are great, but his offensive skills are traits that are most lethal.
     
  5. CREW99AW

    CREW99AW Registered User

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    Do scouts think his potential is a 1st liner or 2nd liner?
     
  6. Mats_Hallin

    Mats_Hallin Registered User

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    Vaclac Meidl perhaps?
    From what I've heard he's big, gritty and goes to the net.
     
  7. rinkrat13

    rinkrat13 Registered User

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    Don't Be Surprised IF The Flames Pick A Goalie

    A Goalie - they should be able to find Dubnyk or Shantz available at their pick... believe me, the Flames need goalie help for the future!
     
  8. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Why? Kipper is still relatively young. Sabourin is doing fine and can be a backup in 3 or so years. Khran is doing fine and is still young. McElhinney has improved a ton and put up some great numbers. Medvedev is also another decent goaltending prospect. Doesn't make sense to draft a goalie when you ahve 3 prospects that are young and still have potential. Add in the fact that your #1 goalie is relatively young makes drafting a goalie even less useless. It would be a waste for the Flames to draft a goalie with their #1 pick when they need to start building some forward prospects for the future.
     
  9. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    I'd say guys we might be looking at include...

    Dave Bolland (6'0 gritty centre with skills)

    Boris Valabik (6'6 Slovakian monster on defense plays a rough game)

    Mike Green (6'1 averaged sized puck moving defensemen with an edge, been compared with Hamhuis)

    Al Montoya, Devan Dubnyk, Marek Schwarz (some of the top goalies in the draft, Tod Button says it's a good year for goalies and listed these guys and said Sutter has given them the go ahead to take a goalie if they feel strongly.)

    Alexandre Picard (6'2 QMJHL sniper)

    Ladislav Smid (6'2 steady Czech defender)

    A.J. Thelan (lot's of poster on HF seem to think his stock is on the rise, 6'2 college defender with great point totals in freshman year)

    Wes O'Neill (6'3 college defender with all the tools but hasn't quite put it all together yet.)

    Petteri Nokelainen, Lauri Korpikoski (a couple of 6'1 Finnish wingers that have had strong seasons internationally, both play a gritty, physical style from what I've heard but also have some skill and size.)

    Ondrej Meszaros (6'2 Slovak defender)

    Kyle Chipchura (6'2 playmaking centre)

    I tend to think the Flames will shy away from the stereotypical Euro style forward's who can be inconsistent, soft, etc. Some who fit this profile who may be around include Alexander Radulov (probably goes top 15), Evner Lisin, Jakub Sindel, Wojtek Wolski, and Lukas Kaspar.

    Guys like Alexandre Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Cam Barker, Drew Stafford, Rostislav Olesz, Lauri Tukonen, Andrew Ladd (of the Hitmen), Robbie Schremp, are all locks to go ahead of our pick IMO. At least one of the goalies (Schwarz or Montoya) will likely go ahead of our pick, perhaps both.

    That's how I see it right now.
     
  10. rinkrat13

    rinkrat13 Registered User

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    I've copied and pasted a post I made on another thread

    I agree, although you should consider this - Kipper is gonna be 28 next year and has ONLY proven himself in half a season and now in these playoffs... I like Kipper, I like him ALOT, just don't sell the farm cuz you think he'll do it year in and year out - not saying he won't, just saying he might not!

    Keep in mind he has been around the North American game for 4 or 5 years now and has only played in 85 NHL regular season games (38 of them this season in Calgary) he has played great this year, but alot of goalies have had a great year and never heard from again (does Jim Carey ring a bell, even one of your own, Turek - 42 wins in St. Louis in 1999-00 and then just average hockey since)

    I can't see any of the goalies in the Flames system (Sabourin, Krahn, Medvedev) being a number one in this league... I guess you can always draft a goalie in the second round - I just think they need a great goalie prospect in their system, FAST!
     
  11. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Krahn has always looked great in preseason. Sutter has done wonders this year and has also known Kipper from his years in SJ. I think Sutter knew alot more about Kipper than we (the fans know). If Sutter wasn't sure on him and his abilities he would have traded for a different goalie. If Sutter believes in the guy, there is no reason to speculate that Kipper can't be a great goalie for the Flames future. At 28 years old, that is nothing. Most goalies come into their own around that age. He still easily has 4-6 years of playing time in which we can draft, make a trade or see how our current goaltending situation is heading.
     
  12. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Why can't you see them being #1's? Krahn was a consensus 1st rounder who has had some injury problems and therefore has had his development set back by a year or two. Not sure why everybody seems to think injury problems = bust. He's a good prospect with a great upside, too early to write him off now. His size and athleticism weren't flushed down the toilet with the injury, he's still got the same tools that made him a 1st round calibre prospect.

    Medvedev is a real wildcard with his conditioning problems but his talent level is extremely high. Many called him a 1st talent in his draft year, if he ever decides to take his conditioning seriously then the Flames may have a player.

    I know the Flames haven't ruled out picking a goalie in this year's draft, our head scout has said as much. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it, you draft the kid you believe in.

    But I really have a problem with somebody saying that none of the Flames current goaltending prospects can be a #1 especially with how young they are. Extremely premature statement. Let's see where Krahn is after a year or two of starting in the AHL. Let's see where Medvedev is when he comes over. Until that point we really can't judge and those who do come off looking about as smart as those calling Saprykin a bust a year or two ago.
     
  13. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Tod Button our head scout was on the radio saying it's a great draft year for goalies. And that's probably the biggest reason to draft another one, the depth at that position. Button said that he has talked to Sutter about drafting a goalie and that Sutter has given the OK if it's a guy they really like.

    The goal of the draft is to get players. If they feel like one of the best prospects available at our pick is a goalie then they'll do it. You can't draft based on immediate need.
     
  14. rinkrat13

    rinkrat13 Registered User

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    Of course Kipper was a steal now looking back in retrospect - c'mon, are you telling me that SJ knew less about Kipper then Sutter did??? cuz he did go for only a seocnd rounder - Sutter saw something and took a chance on him (and it paid off) you can't tell me that he knew 100% that Kipper would be what he has been for the Flames this season... also, Kipper is not old at all (and his age is not an issue here) what is an issue here is, I've seen a ton of goalies have great years and then go bye bye (not saying this will happen to Kipper) just don't count your chickens til they hatch - and as for the goalies the Flames have in their system, none of them will play hockey at the NHL level (maybe as a back-up's one day, for sure no starters in their system IMO)

    The Flames have a few gifted forwards in their system like, Taratukhin, McConnell, Donally not to mention kids playing now like Saprykin, Lombardi and Kobasew plus a blueline that is soooooo underrated it's strarting to bother me - promising youngsters like Regehr, Leopold that are dominating already and kids like Phaneuf, Ramholt and the MONSTER Bellemare on their way - just like every team, they need to assemble young talent at all positions. IMO the one position they need the most help is in goal... thye neeed a great goalie prospect they can bring along slowly like Columbus is doing with Leclaire and Boston has done with Raycroft - someone that can take over for Kipper when we is done and/or someone to have as a safty net incase this Kipper falls, hard!

    I'm pretty sure the Flames management is not gonna go too far into this years draft without selecting a goalie.
     
  15. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    I still find it hard for the Flames to draft another 1st round goalie with Krahn being so young and also the Flames not having their own minor league. Krahn was sent to another team just to get him more icetime as we now share a minor league team with Carolina. Unless we get our own team I don't see it possible to add another goalie to the already VERY LIMITED ice time available for their development.
     
  16. rinkrat13

    rinkrat13 Registered User

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    you make a good point (regarding the farm)... I just don't think its a bad idea to draft another goalie if not in the first round then in the second. Also, I'm pretty sure as soon as that goalie is ready to play pro Hockey the Flames will have their own farm club set up.
     
  17. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    I am not sure the farm team (our own) will be anytime soon as we did the sharing team thing to save money. If the Flames can deal a goalie for a prospect in return then so be it. If not I wouldn't mind grabbing a goalie in the 2nd round.
     
  18. icarus

    icarus Registered User

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    Wow, I couldn't disagree more. You mention McConnell, Donally, and Bellemare as promising prospects; I wish I could agree, but they are all bigtime wildcards. I wouldn't hang my hat on any of them (and I think you're the first person I've ever heard express such hope for Bellemare).

    Assuming Mike Commodore has graduated to the NHL, here are the Flames top prospects, divided by position:

    F: Nystrom, Taratukhin, Trubachev, Maki
    D: Phaneuf, Ramholt
    G: Krahn, Medvedev, McElhinney, Sabourin

    It seems to me that of all the positions that need addressing, goaltending is NOT the most immediate concern. If I were the Flames, I would take the best skater available in this draft, but just because it is a strong year for goalies I would opt to go in the direction that it sounds like the Flames will be taking, and draft the BPA regardless of position.
     
  19. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Not as much of an issue if you select a European or a College goaltender. So probably not a big issue for Schwarz, Montoya or Schneider although you'd probably want them to play at least a year in the minors before making the NHL but that would probably be several years down the road.

    And still not a huge issue in my mind. If you select a CHL goalie he can play in junior for 2-3 years. By that time we will most definitely have a farm team.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
  20. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    If he doesn't like any of the players around his spot, Sutter will probably trade the first rounder for a second, third and fourth.

    He did something similar last draft with one of his seconds.
     
  21. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    I would not mind this option at all either. Something along the lines of a young player with potential and a lower end draft pick. Hopefully Sutter can capitalize on bad player/coach relationships etc.

    Such as Arnason + a 4th round pick for Calgary's 1st round pick. (just an example, not meant to be the end all example).
     
  22. Mats_Hallin

    Mats_Hallin Registered User

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    The only players still avalible at #19 will probably be Boris Valabik, Petteri Nokelainen, Lauri Korpikoski, one or two of the small euros except the canadian Wolski who will go earlier for sure and Devan Dubnyk.

    I'm thinking the same thing since Sutter ain't got a 2nd or a 3rd, he might trade down for a couple of picks.
    NYR and Was has a ton of 2nds.
     
  23. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    ?

    I listed 14 guys as appealing.

    I listed another 8 guys as locks to go ahead of our pick.

    I listed another 5 guys who have a chance to go ahead of our pick (including Radulov and Wolski who I'm pretty sure will go in the top 18).

    Do the math yourself, it's impossible for there to be only the 3 you listed.

    There will be at least 5 of the guys that made my "appealing" list left for the Flames, most likely more...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2004
  24. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    I don't think he would be able to get that much for a pick around #20 overall. I could be wrong but that seems like a hell of a lot to give up for a pick that late in the draft.

    Anyways, if you look at Krahns numbers in the AHL they are not good. I would not want to be relying on him as the goaltender of the future. I will try and find his stats and post them, but from what I remember they were below average at best. Furthermore Sabourin seems to be stalled. Every game I have seen of his, he got bombed big time by the opposition. I would doubt he could be anything more than a Moss type goaltender, AHL at best. Medvedev, that is a wild card, if he could get in shape, and I don't mean even more rounded, he might have a shot at being a good goaltender, but it doesn't look like he has made a huge effort to do so. His weight is still a problem as it has been for the past 3 years. He hasn't gotten into good shape, when he has had 3 years to do so. I am starting to think he never will, and as we all should know the day of the chubby goaltender has passed.
     
  25. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Well good thing stats aren't everything then isn't it?

    He was decent for Lowell (who missed the AHL playoffs) with a 2.62 GAA and a .924 SV% in 7 games. Not bad on a bad team.

    However as you pointed out he was quite bad on San Antonio (who also missed the AHL playoffs) with a 3.44 GAA and a .884 SV% in 14 games. Pretty bad numbers but it was on the 4th worst team in the AHL.

    That was his first year of pro hockey so I think we'll see some improvement. It will be interesting to see if he can win a starter's role somewhere next year in the AHL and I would really like to see what kind of numbers he can post on a winning team.

    You as a Nucks fan should know that a 6'4 goalie can take some time. Or should I remind you of Auld's numbers as a first year pro? Auld had a GAA of 3.53 and a SV% of .881 in 21 games in the AHL in his first year pro. How easy would it have been for the armchair prospect critic to call him a bust at that point? Next thing you know he's starting for the Canucks in the NHL playoffs.

    Bottom line is that Krahn has several years of development ahead of him and was set back by an injury. To judge him at this point and write him off would be assinine and completely premature.
     
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