Series Discussion: Calgary Flames vs. Colorado Avalanche

[JGaudreau]

I blame the refs for losing us this series. The tired argument of it's not the refs fault and they should win anyways is against logic.

If one team has to play with extreme caution because legal stickchecks are being called penalties and the other teams gets to play with reckless abandon because hooks on breakaways, high sticks and slashes don't get called even when the ref is looking directly at it makes it impossible to win. Of course they will get out shot when they have no clue what's going to be a penalty. Of course they will back away from the blueline, of course they will make hesitant passes.

There's no team that can overcome being penalized on legal plays while not getting calls for egregious offenses. It's impossible. The Flames are clearly playing extremely cautiously because they have no idea what will be a penalty or not. The balance is tipped way too far to the point the Flames are playing way worse than they are capable of.

How are you supposed to play your best defensively when you get penalized on legal plays and how are you supposed to play offense when you get hooked on every single breakaway and get zero calls? The ref was looking directly at Valimaki getting high sticked, there's no excuses for it. It's ruining the on ice product and it's getting worse. In the 90's atleast a blatant high stick the ref is directly staring at would get called. We aren't even watching pro hockey, this is bush league garbage and I think I've had just about enough.

Imagine I go to your work, smash your computer and tell you to quit whining and finish your job. And when you whine you get told that's how it is for everyone, except it's not.

 

[TkachuksMouthguard]

It's a culture thing! This organization has been a playoff failure for most of its existence, the '18-'19 iteration is simply continuing with the tradition. Pathetic.

Avs in 5.

I dont think its a culture thing. Culture things dont get you the regular season we just got. The issue is that the game is different in the post season and this team is either not build for that, or have not progressed to that level yet. I'll take the first. There are players on this team who cannot turn up the intensity, mentally and physically. Thats it.

 

[GAMO1992]

We need a COMPLETE lineup overhaul for game 5. Kick the asses of our players

Johnny-Lindholm-Bennett
Chucky-Backs-Fro
Mangi-Money-Czar
Hath-Janks-Lomberg

Gio-Ras
Vali-Hanafin
Brodie/Fanta-Hammer

Smith

Bennett is the forechecker and helps the cycle, while Lindy/Johnny do offensive stuff(try)
3M standard, while I would like to split them up and spread them around, we need them to shutdown Mac
Put 2 speedy guys with Money and force him to be engaged physically, cuz the dude needs to, BIG TIME
4th line energy line. would LOVE to see Lomberg in over Neal, but I doubt that happens.

defense is pretty standard, I would honestly consider sitting Brodie. He's cost us a couple times too many​

 

[super6646]

I blame the refs for losing us this series. The tired argument of it's not the refs fault and they should win anyways is against logic.

If one team has to play with extreme caution because legal stickchecks are being called penalties and the other teams gets to play with reckless abandon because hooks on breakaways, high sticks and slashes don't get called even when the ref is looking directly at it makes it impossible to win. Of course they will get out shot when they have no clue what's going to be a penalty. Of course they will back away from the blueline, of course they will make hesitant passes.

There's no team that can overcome being penalized on legal plays while not getting calls for egregious offenses. It's impossible. The Flames are clearly playing extremely cautiously because they have no idea what will be a penalty or not. The balance is tipped way too far to the point the Flames are playing way worse than they are capable of.

How are you supposed to play your best defensively when you get penalized on legal plays and how are you supposed to play offense when you get hooked on every single breakaway and get zero calls? The ref was looking directly at Valimaki getting high sticked, there's no excuses for it. It's ruining the on ice product and it's getting worse. In the 90's atleast a blatant high stick the ref is directly staring at would get called. We aren't even watching pro hockey, this is bush league garbage and I think I've had just about enough.

Imagine I go to your work, smash your computer and tell you to quit whining and finish your job. And when you whine you get told that's how it is for everyone, except it's not.

Great comparable lol

Flames have been ass outside of game 1. Refs didn’t tell them to play bad for in game 2 or 3.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I would honestly consider sitting Brodie. He's cost us a couple times too many​

We have not lost a single game in this series because of Brodie. Objectively speaking Hanifin is the guy you want to sit.

 

[Dack]

 

[GAMO1992]

We have not lost a single game in this series because of Brodie. Objectively speaking Hanifin is the guy you want to sit.

BOTH have cost us, but I never said Brodie lost us a game haha, he's just cost us by his play this series, not been great. Nor has Hanafin. Would love to sit both tbh, but I'd rather sit Brodie simply for the fact that the dude has been here for years, show the guys in the room that no in is safe to be sat, especially a veteran.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

BOTH have cost us, but I never said Brodie lost us a game haha, he's just cost us by his play this series, not been great. Nor has Hanafin. Would love to sit both tbh, but I'd rather sit Brodie simply for the fact that the dude has been here for years, show the guys in the room that no in is safe to be sat, especially a veteran.

But Brodie, Guordano, Valimaki, and Andersson all played a strong road game in game 4, exactly what we needed to take that 2-0 lead. It would be a terrible message and simply reek of atrocious coaching.

Sounds like you would let your personal feelings cloud your judgement.

 

[GAMO1992]

But Brodie, Guordano, Valimaki, and Andersson all played a strong road game in game 4, exactly what we needed to take that 2-0 lead. It would be a terrible message and simply reek of atrocious coaching.

Sounds like you would let your personal feelings cloud your judgement.

I mean.... I'm just a fan typing away on a keyboard, frustrated at our teams play. Can't forget how poor Brodie played in games 2/3 though, he was close to, if not tire-fire-esque at points in those games. I love Brodie personally, but the dude can be just so frustrating to watch at times.
I'm just not sure what to do at this point, tbh. I would like to see Ollie get in, have his speed and dynamic creativity. but not at the cost of Ras, Gio, Vali, or Hammer. TBH I would not bat an eyelash if BOTH Brodie and Noah sat in favor of Fanta and Oliver.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

. Can't forget how poor Brodie played in games 2/3 though, he was close to, if not tire-fire-esque at points in those games. .

He was no worse than any other D in game 3 and not even close to the worst. His pair of powerplay gaffes in game 2 were rough, but he was also keeping MacKinnon to the perimeter most of that game before that 5v5. Who knows, in another life we win game 2 if he were still on the top pair there.

Wanting to sit Brodie is ridiculous. It doesn't make you more likely to win.

If Kylington should come in, it would be to replace Hanifin who is clearly not ready for the NHL playoffs.

And Fantenberg is a #6D in every way. Sitting a top pair D for a bottom pair D makes zero sense.

 

[Khrox]

Game 5 lineup

Top line
3M
Bennett-Dubé-Czarnik
DAG

Brodano
Valimaki-Andersson
Hanifin-Brodie/Andersson

Smith

Ride 5 d all night, swap Bennett and Monahan if the first line doesn’t skate after the first two or three shifts

Push the pace and be aggressive, don’t give the Avs free ice. Don’t be afraid to get beat.

You want to ride 5 D all night and take Hamonic out? If you're taking one D out, it's Brodie and you keep Hamonic in, he has been an absolute warrior for us.


As much as Monahan has been a bit of a disappointment, it's mostly his lack of physical play that seems to be the issue (but that has always been his issue). Gaudreau on the other hand has almost completely disappeared, turnovers and outside of a few plays, almost disinterested these playoffs. Lindholm hasn't been too great either. I think a minor split-up is the best fix. One thing that made Ferland so successful with Johnny and Mony is the fact that while not as skilled as Lindy, provided something that the other two didn't, a physical play (but still had skill enough to play with them). The Flames have 2 guys who could fill that role, Bennett and Neal. Both can finish, both can play physical. Give one of them the chance on the first line to muck things up, and it'll draw players away from Johnny and Mony. Then we can drop Lindholm to the second to play with Tkachuk and Backs, or to the third line (potentially as the center?). I'd rather him with Backs, so they can split faceoffs, because as great as Backs play has been, his faceoff percentage hasn't been the greatest.

 

[Dack]

A huge portion of the blame for this should go to Peters. The fans wanted the "top line" broken up in February but here we are riding a line who haven't played well for more than 1 game in 3 months.

 

[Tofveve]

I have a feeling we're going to win three in a row. First one happens tonight.

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

I have a feeling we're going to win three in a row. First one happens tonight.

Tonight's definitely as good a time as any to turn the season around.

I know we technically can't be "swept" but ending the season with four straight pathetic losses would suck so bad. And it's in the Saddledome so come on, show up tonight Flames.

 

[DFF]

A huge portion of the blame for this should go to Peters. The fans wanted the "top line" broken up in February but here we are riding a line who haven't played well for more than 1 game in 3 months.

Exactly, he went from a great coach to gulutzan after the all Star break...huge disappointment. Won't even finish the year next year if it continues like this.
On the flipped side...Alexis would solve our problem

 

[DFF]

You want to ride 5 D all night and take Hamonic out? If you're taking one D out, it's Brodie and you keep Hamonic in, he has been an absolute warrior for us.


As much as Monahan has been a bit of a disappointment, it's mostly his lack of physical play that seems to be the issue (but that has always been his issue). Gaudreau on the other hand has almost completely disappeared, turnovers and outside of a few plays, almost disinterested these playoffs. Lindholm hasn't been too great either. I think a minor split-up is the best fix. One thing that made Ferland so successful with Johnny and Mony is the fact that while not as skilled as Lindy, provided something that the other two didn't, a physical play (but still had skill enough to play with them). The Flames have 2 guys who could fill that role, Bennett and Neal. Both can finish, both can play physical. Give one of them the chance on the first line to muck things up, and it'll draw players away from Johnny and Mony. Then we can drop Lindholm to the second to play with Tkachuk and Backs, or to the third line (potentially as the center?). I'd rather him with Backs, so they can split faceoffs, because as great as Backs play has been, his faceoff percentage hasn't been the greatest.

Lol Johnny worked his ass off for that 100 pt and still couldn't get it when the games mean nothing. What make people think he can score now?

He is done for the year

 

[JPeeper]

A huge portion of the blame for this should go to Peters. The fans wanted the "top line" broken up in February but here we are riding a line who haven't played well for more than 1 game in 3 months.

I wasn't hating on Peters like a few people were after the first couple games, but it's 4 games now and the defensive strategy of let them have the zone and continue to back off is baffling. Terrible gap control and giving up the blue line. Against a fast team? Like what the f*** is the coaching staff thinking.

 

[Anglesmith]

There's a lot of the typical hockey tradition of taking every playoff result and treating it as an inevitability, but in the end, similarly to Tampa, this series was an example of a good team not playing their best hockey when it matters, while their opposition did. This was a highly successful season, and suggesting that the hockey played by the Flames in this series was representative of all that this roster can do is just straight-up incorrect in my opinion.

For all of the complaining and calls to blow things up, we have a team with a very young nucleus relative to the rest of the league, all of whom have the ability to grow from this. Just looking around the league, series aren't won simply by having the best-constructed roster (Tampa) or by having the best top centres (Pittsburgh), but by how the team plays in a few games in April. It's not about changing around parts until you get a team that will inevitably win every playoff series, because that is impossible. It's about constructing a roster which is capable of great things, and then hoping they can come together and play their best hockey when it counts. The Flames did not play their best hockey at the right moment this year, but it doesn't mean that they never will (see the examples of Washington and San Jose from the last decade or so).

In terms of specifics that I think they can take away here, I think they'll learn a lesson about respecting their opponents. I get the sense that the Flames were very focused on what they needed to do to generate offence, and entirely ignored the fact that Colorado would be trying to beat them as well. Time and time again we see that offence typically stems exclusively from good defence. The best laid plans on offence are doomed to fail if you're spending 30 seconds every shift trying to get the puck out of your own zone. I think the Flames take that and move forward.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Changed my vote to Avs in 5

 

[Fig]

I've been relatively quiet lately, but I don't think the Flames didn't come out to play. The Avs found more than one way to game break the Flames.

I haven't seen a guy so dominant like Mack was in a long time. He was insane from a skill, performance/end result and even at a physical level. Hell, even his muck up level was excellent.
Grubauer was amazing and add in the dmen supporting him as well as they did, that's a method we know certain coaches like Hartley and Gallant have utilized in an effective manner.
Tactics wise, it seemed like they realized a run and gun method with non-stop waves was the recipe to go with rather than play patiently.

Mad props to them. I personally do not recall seeing a team overhaul their style like that. The Avs of this playoffs was not the Avs of the regular season. There was no play book against them as every modification against them ended up just revealing seams to exploit elsewhere.

It truly sucks losing to them. But I don't think we didn't show up. I also don't think the answer is to overhaul the core. This experience will season them and prepare them going forward.


I need to go lick my wounds and soak it all in now.

 

[Kranix]

They were out-coached. Peters had more talent at his disposal and the goaltending and they got worked.

 

[JGaudreau]

Great comparable lol

Flames have been ass outside of game 1. Refs didn’t tell them to play bad for in game 2 or 3.

Except they did by being a significant factor when the games were close. In the 4 losses the refs put their whistles away when it benefitted the Avs and called penalties on legal plays from Flames whenever they saw fit.

You can not expect a team to perform when the balance is skewed so far, when they know going into a corner they are going to get slashed repeatedly but if they make legal plays there's a chance they'll get penalized. The NHL lost a decent amount of it's fan base this playoffs. Expect revenue to go down, I know I probably won't watch NHL for a few years and I've seen the sentiment league wide.

Headlock Bennett, pull him into your goalie, goalie dives when he sees red... no goal. I have better things to do with my life than watch that garbage.

 

[ORRFForever]

As a Leaf fan, I am impressed at the LACK of doom and gloom in this forum - unless I just missed it. I know, in the Leafs forum, if we lose one game, most fans, myself included, are slashing our wrists.

MOST of Canada wanted you to advance - I know I did.

As an outsider, in there any explanation for the lack of production from J.G. and S.M. in the playoffs? Is there a reason why they went silent?

I know J.G.'s lack of size, and the increased playoff physicality, probably made a huge impact. Not sure why S.M. struggled - unless he needs J.G. to excel.

Anyway, as a fellow Canadian I am sorry you guys are out.

 

[DFF]

I've been relatively quiet lately, but I don't think the Flames didn't come out to play. The Avs found more than one way to game break the Flames.

I haven't seen a guy so dominant like Mack was in a long time. He was insane from a skill, performance/end result and even at a physical level. Hell, even his muck up level was excellent.
Grubauer was amazing and add in the dmen supporting him as well as they did, that's a method we know certain coaches like Hartley and Gallant have utilized in an effective manner.
Tactics wise, it seemed like they realized a run and gun method with non-stop waves was the recipe to go with rather than play patiently.

Mad props to them. I personally do not recall seeing a team overhaul their style like that. The Avs of this playoffs was not the Avs of the regular season. There was no play book against them as every modification against them ended up just revealing seams to exploit elsewhere.

It truly sucks losing to them. But I don't think we didn't show up. I also don't think the answer is to overhaul the core. This experience will season them and prepare them going forward.


I need to go lick my wounds and soak it all in now.

Nah, it's 100-% the core
Rewatch game 2, and tell me if Brodie was ready to play.

Monahan looked like shit the whole series

Johnny didn't show up until game 5

They underestimated the avs and got whipped

 

[djpatm]

I've been relatively quiet lately, but I don't think the Flames didn't come out to play. The Avs found more than one way to game break the Flames.

I haven't seen a guy so dominant like Mack was in a long time. He was insane from a skill, performance/end result and even at a physical level. Hell, even his muck up level was excellent.
Grubauer was amazing and add in the dmen supporting him as well as they did, that's a method we know certain coaches like Hartley and Gallant have utilized in an effective manner.
Tactics wise, it seemed like they realized a run and gun method with non-stop waves was the recipe to go with rather than play patiently.

Mad props to them. I personally do not recall seeing a team overhaul their style like that. The Avs of this playoffs was not the Avs of the regular season. There was no play book against them as every modification against them ended up just revealing seams to exploit elsewhere.

It truly sucks losing to them. But I don't think we didn't show up. I also don't think the answer is to overhaul the core. This experience will season them and prepare them going forward.


I need to go lick my wounds and soak it all in now.

I disagree. We made the Avs look ALOT better than they are and I think they will get rocked by any team that shows up to play. The Flames never made it remotely difficult for the Avs to do anything. They backed away from them on defence, they passed pucks into skates and telegraphed plays that were easily picked off and they fumbled pucks constantly. The Flames essentially looked like an AHL team and the Avs feasted on them.

Mackinnon and the Avs will not look anything like this in their next series, thats a guarantee. The Flames just totally folded like the cheapest of used tents.