OT: Cal Ripken—Revolutionary SS or Overrated Hack? Discuss

[txpd]

Agree with all this except fielding percentage - it's kind of a lame stat. Cal was big and relatively slow for a SS. No doubt he caught everything that came near him, but he wasn't rangy, and looking at fielding percentage punishes the rangy guys even though they are getting to balls Cal could not have gotten to.

Ripley was tangy in that he was moving on the pitch. So long as the pitch was close to what was called he got a bump on the ball. I will have to look up his record year but Iirc he made like errors and led the league in chances.

Edit. 1990. Set the record with 3 errors. He set the consecutive games without an error at 95. Which was 23 games better than the previous record. He won 2 gold gloves.

 

[txpd]

I'm saying he wasnt your typical ss. He even played field more like a 3rd baseman than a ss.

He was a new type of shortstop. The type of which that dominated the position in the following eras. SS is far more demanding than 3rd.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

It would be like saying one of the trash goalies from the 60s was the GOAT bc he was the best of trash goalie era

 

[Hivemind]

It would be like saying one of the trash goalies from the 60s was the GOAT bc he was the best of trash goalie era

Would you not give credit to Patrick Roy for helping revolutionize the position of goaltending?

 

[Silky mitts]

Baseball is wack

 

[kicksavedave]

It would be like saying one of the trash goalies from the 60s was the GOAT bc he was the best of trash goalie era

Who said Ripken was/is the greatest of all time? Since he retired he has been eclipsed by several SS who came after him. But what he did, when he did it, put him at the very top of the SS list. Changing the game means those who come after you will be better, but when Cal broke in no one had seen a player like him at SS.

 

[Fantomas]

Who said Ripken was/is the greatest of all time? Since he retired he has been eclipsed by several SS who came after him.

I doubt it. How many shortstops since Ripken have 96 overall fWAR?

 

[Fantomas]

Agree with all this except fielding percentage - it's kind of a lame stat. Cal was big and relatively slow for a SS. No doubt he caught everything that came near him, but he wasn't rangy, and looking at fielding percentage punishes the rangy guys even though they are getting to balls Cal could not have gotten to.

Advanced stats disagree.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Note to self... Never tell an O's fan Cal Ripken Jr was overrated

 

[Hivemind]

Note to self... Never tell an O's fan Cal Ripken Jr was overrated

Saying he was overrated would have probably been fine to all of us aside of txpd. You went full out and said he was "nothing special," which is absurd to say.

 

[Silky mitts]

 

[Hivemind]

This was some convenient timing.

 

[txpd]

Note to self... Never tell an O's fan Cal Ripken Jr was overrated

Comparing Ripken to a trash goalie and so forth. its downright disrespectful. I posted this largely to note that the two best players in DC and Baltimore both wore 8. I never expected someone to decide to trash Ripken in the process.

 

[maacoshark]

Comparing Ripken to a trash goalie and so forth. its downright disrespectful. I posted this largely to note that the two best players in DC and Baltimore both wore 8. I never expected someone to decide to trash Ripken in the process.

What about all of the other athletes that played in the DC area and Baltimore that you just disrespected?
BTW I dont agree with assessment on Ripken. There were other athletes better than him.

 

[Devil Dancer]

What about all of the other athletes that played in the DC area and Baltimore that you just disrespected?
BTW I dont agree with assessment on Ripken. There were other athletes better than him.

In the DC/Baltimore area? Who?

Probably Walter Johnson. Maybe Sammie Baugh. I suppose Ray Lewis has an argument.

But it's not a long list.

 

[maacoshark]

In the DC/Baltimore area? Who?

Probably Walter Johnson. Maybe Sammie Baugh. I suppose Ray Lewis has an argument.

But it's not a long list.

What about some other orioles like Jim Palmer, Frank Robinson and Eddie Murray. Or some more Redskin players. Or you could include Johnny Unitas.

 

[txpd]

What about all of the other athletes that played in the DC area and Baltimore that you just disrespected?
BTW I dont agree with assessment on Ripken. There were other athletes better than him.

Sure. Johnny Unitas. Disrespected is harsh, but OK. I except that. I am an asshole afterall.

 

[txpd]

What about some other orioles like Jim Palmer, Frank Robinson and Eddie Murray. Or some more Redskin players. Or you could include Johnny Unitas.

I did mention Unitas after someone mentioned Ray Lewis. Frank and Brooks and Boog and Eddie Murray are all interesting conversations v Ripken. I worked for the Orioles in college in knew 3 of those people. I would argue for Ripken.

As for Redskins and Senators, other than Johnson who else would you put in that category? 28? Maybe. 9? You think Sonny was better than Johnny? I was a Hondo fan but I wouldn't put him in that group.

Meanwhile this is an Ov thread. If a mod wants to move this to off topic....

 

[maacoshark]

I did mention Unitas after someone mentioned Ray Lewis. Frank and Brooks and Boog and Eddie Murray are all interesting conversations v Ripken. I worked for the Orioles in college in knew 3 of those people. I would argue for Ripken.

As for Redskins and Senators, other than Johnson who else would you put in that category? 28? Maybe. 9? You think Sonny was better than Johnny? I was a Hondo fan but I wouldn't put him in that group.

Meanwhile this is an Ov thread. If a mod wants to move this to off topic....

I'm sorry but I dont feel Ripken is as great as you make him out to be. He was a very good player. Good hitter and good fielder, not a great base runner. Even though he had a good fielding percentage I just didn't see him as a great defensive shortstop because he didnt have the range most shortstops at that time had.
I dont compare a position by offensive stats. In the batting lineup he is just another hitter. I understand why teams started going in that direction. To get more offensive players in the line up. But being a good hitter doesnt make him a better Short stop.

 

[maacoshark]

Compare his stats to other SS in his era.

Short stop is a defensive position only. In the batting lineup he is just another hitter.

 

[Fantomas]

I'm sorry but I dont feel Ripken is as great as you make him out to be. He was a very good player. Good hitter and good fielder, not a great base runner. Even though he had a good fielding percentage I just didn't see him as a great defensive shortstop because he didnt have the range most shortstops at that time had.
I dont compare a position by offensive stats. In the batting lineup he is just another hitter. I understand why teams started going in that direction. To get more offensive players in the line up. But being a good hitter doesnt make him a better Short stop.

Advanced stats tell us that Ripken was a historically great shortstop. Among the very best.

 

[Chokingdogs]

Short stop is a defensive position only. In the batting lineup he is just another hitter.

I could be wrong here but....I think all positions in the field are of the defensive variety.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Is Matt Weiters an elite catcher because he's a average batter for the position and larger in size then most catchers?

Bc that sounds like the Cal debate

.250 hitting sucks and doing that 7 prime seasons is enough to deem him vastly overrated

 

[VaCaps Fan]

He was terrible on the nats!

 

[txpd]

Advanced stats tell us that Ripken was a historically great shortstop. Among the very best.

Care to explain that a little. Because, you know, nobody here pays any attention to fancy stats in any sport