C Thomas Bordeleau - USNTDP, USHL (2020 Draft)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Pavel Buchnevich, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Dominance

    Dominance 99664987 Sponsor

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    I like this way of thinking and not caring about who a player’s parents are. We will trade you those extremely few Canadian players who are trained in US programs for more than two years for the Hughes brothers and many more like them who were trained in Canadian programs and had significant Hockey Canada resources therefore put into their development. Now, how do we get the IIHF on board?
     
  2. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

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    Well, regardless of where we all stand on this there is at least one saving grace that I am eternally grateful for.............................none of Gretzkys kids took to hockey and became players.

    I don't think I could have handled seeing any of them skating around a rink with a U.S.A sweater on, that would have been just too much.
     
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  3. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    as I said, make your list and back it up - I will 100% say you will not think the same once you do.
     
  4. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    you can have Chris and Ryan Bourque back as well...
     
  5. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    its all good, we can keep Crosby and Toews as well for playing at Shattuck in Minnesota :sarcasm:
     
  6. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

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    if I get time I'll get to work on that, although I think the list should include players who played at any high level such as the W.J.C.

    Hey dream, one more thing buddy...............................I pray we both live long enough to be watching a game and there is this great player kicking ass with a Canadian sweater on and when we look at the back of his sweater the name we see on it says "Matthews"
     
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  7. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

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    Lol,those guys you're welcome to have.
     
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  8. Dominance

    Dominance 99664987 Sponsor

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    Haha, you got that, did you? That’s why I specified the “more than two years.” ;)
     
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  9. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    you can make multiple lists if you like, the optics of this and the reality are usually two different things which is why I will always be in these discussions...meaning it seems worse than it really is.

    outside of Zach Parise, what other player from a Canadian father that plays for the US has had an impact for the US at the pro level? Colin Wilson?? Nick Foligno??

    outside of Pominville, who else sided with the US because of citizenship being raised in Canada?? you obviously have Hull and Deadmarsh from US mothers , but since them who else is there??? Nick Foligno was born in the US, can't use him....

    and I know the US has benefited over the years from this, but when you really boil it down, it hasn't been nearly as impactful or as wide spread as some say it to be.

    here is my team USA if a tournament started right now.

    Wheeler - Matthews - Kane
    Gaudreau - Eichel - Kessel
    Lee - Larkin - Pavelski
    M. Tkachuk - Trocheck - Oshie
    DeBrincat/Connor/

    Seth Jones - Werenski
    McAvoy - McDonagh
    Gostisbehere - Suter
    Slavin

    Quick
    Hell Boy
    Gibson


    ....LOOK AT ALL THEM CANADIAN PLAYERS EITHER BORN IN CANADA OR FROM CANADIAN HOCKEY DADS LOL......
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  10. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

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    brett Hull, the villain scored a World cup winning goal on us too, but let's not get into that.


    You make a valid point here, maybe you're right when it all comes out in the wash at the pro level.

    Good work!!
     
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  11. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    no prob, it is always a good discussion if people look at it objectively and break it down for it to be accurate.

    ironically, the US has done much better with kids from ex US players of late than anything else..obviously the Tkachuk's would top that list, but Connor Murphy, Ryan Suter (Miracle on Ice dad and Uncle Gary), Ryan Donato, Tage Thompson, etc...have all made big impacts at the NHL level, with names like Ryder Rolston, Danny Weight, Ryan Johnson and Alex Turcotte coming (all US dads ex NHLers) seems that trend is continuing..
     
  12. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

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    The Tkachuks, Canadian mom!! lol.

    Yeah, you guys have been having success with ex American players kids of late.

    Anyway, I guess we can kind of move on, the players play where they play in the end and thats all that matters. Time to get thinking about what kind of team we have to put together for Vancouver/Victoria now, We plan on beating the short pants off you guys with extreme prejudice;)

    Those games are always doozys.
     
  13. NA Scouting

    NA Scouting Registered User

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    I do believe both Paulin and Sébastien played for France at the Olympics, making Thomas' decision to jump to the USA even clearer. They really don't have a problem with identifying with another country.

    Even moreso, Paulin is the manager of the Midget AAA club for which Thomas played, and has been for a long time, and thus definitely has strong ties to Quebec and the QMJHL. Yet, that did not stop Thomas from skipping the QMJHL.

    We're at a point where a lot of kids will go to USA (or elsewhere) if they have the option. For exemple anglophone kids born in Montreal will often refuse to go to the QMJHL and go to NCAA instead. And a lot of former players' kids are skipping the QMJHL too.

    The Q is missing out on some talented players.
     
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  14. NA Scouting

    NA Scouting Registered User

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    Bordeleau was always highly regarded in Quebec since a young age and I am not surprise to see him do well right now. He is very fast, mature two-way game and great playmaking skills. He should end up much better than his dad.

    It sucks that he won't play in the Q, although he was drafted by his hometown team (Blainville-Boisbriand). Well, not his true hometown, but the town where he was living and playing Midget AAA in.
     
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  15. Deam78

    Deam78 Registered User

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    He is from my town so I know a bit about this case, it made a lot of noise when he announced he was going to the states. From an interview his father gave at TVA Sports (that I tried to translate to the best of my capacity since it was indeed in French).

    "First of all, this was a family decision, said Bordeleau. Thomas is good at school. We lived in Europe until 2012, so Thomas only learned late in his life what was the QJMHL. Through time, he learned what was the NCAA. For having played hockey a long time and being hurt badly at the age of 27 when I had fractured verterbraes, I was confronted to reality. For me, it was important to combine University with hockey.

    With my wife who spent 10 years in University and me spending four, it was the minimum. At the same time, we can make plans, but if our son wouldn't have been good in school, maybe we would've chose a different path. The american program was an opportunity and we didn't want to snub anyone."

    So, it sounds like while his father and grandfather have great ties with the Hockey Quebec and the QJMHL, Thomas doesn't have any emotional or cultural ties to it and he chose the opportunity of committing to an University with the visibility of the USNTDP. Also in an interview with Radio-Canada, his father also mentioned they seek advise from CAA and talked with Pat Bisson, André Ruel and CAA player's development responsible Jim Hughes (Jack and Quinn's father). That definitely influenced Thomas too IMO.

    The fuss about that news was not about a guy from a huge hockey family in Quebec to move to the states, we were happy for him and all. It was about questioning our current system as to why young Americans have access to multiple school and university options after their junior stage while in Quebec only three Universities, one french only, sponsor a man's hockey team.

    I hope we could get better in that instance in the years to come.

    Hope that gives you a bit more information guys!
     
  16. schnapshot

    schnapshot Mendoza baby

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    Great post.

    I think the focus should be on developping our university system as well, since right now it’s only useful to former Q players who want a degree, and isn’t seen by any way as a mean to get to the NHL. Which means that some players who want to study and play hockey (especially anglophones from Quebec) just end up playing in Ontario Junior A/BCHL and NCAA.
     
  17. beaverjc

    beaverjc Registered User

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    We never touched on the OHL also invading the US player pool for players....
     
  18. NA Scouting

    NA Scouting Registered User

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    Great post, just wanna say though I don't think Thomas has commited to any university just yet. Technically he could still come back to play in the QMJHL if he changed his mind, even after going NCAA.
     
  19. NA Scouting

    NA Scouting Registered User

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    The real problem (and this is gonna be weird coming from a guy with a QMJHL avatar) is the QMJHL. It is pointless. It's a business and they wanna make money. While I know NCAA teams make a lot of money too, it would be different in Quebec. The focus should always be on developping hockey players and young men, and we shoud focus our energy on this, and not making money.

    The QMJHL has many problems, including too much travel, too many games played, not enough focus on schooling, trades and the inclusion of too many foreign players. The goal should be to developp Quebec-born players, not fill the teams with Sidney Crosby and Alex Radulov (which is only to attract more fans and make more money).

    The schools and teams are already in place. For exemple, there is already a CEGEP league with very solid organizations, that can welcome our best players aged 17-18-19. If you eliminate the QMJHL, all of the top players would go to QCHL, and thus the NHL scouts will follow. We would keep the anglophones here, as they can choose to go to an English CEGEP. The best players would get recruited into the Canadian Universities, just like in the NCAA. The very best like Lafrenière would be drafted out of CEGEP and straight into the NHL.

    Basically the CEGEP league should replace the QMJHL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  20. Deam78

    Deam78 Registered User

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    You are right, it the same Radio-Canada interview he said Universities such as Harvard and Cornell have already showed interest, but they're gonna take their time with that kind of decision. It's juste that the program offers such visibility and opportunities.

    As for the switching you are right again. The other way around is not doable.

    Which is one of the many problems our kids face, just like @schnapshot mentioned. I know some kids who were approached by some prep schools and their goal was to play NCAA for school and then they get a camp invitation from a QMJHL team. Problem is, as soon as they spend 48 hours on a roster (even for camp) of a CHL team, they can write off their USA/NCAA dreams. How do you expect 16-17 y/o to truly make the best choice for their future life when they get sell "the dream" as for any kids from Quebec the classic path to NHL is the QJMHL. Not saying one is better than the other, just choosing this young is hard, especially when there is that clear cut OR rule that can't allow you to come back on your decision.

    Kids should be able to chose their best options for both school/future career and hockey.
     
  21. Deam78

    Deam78 Registered User

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    I like the idea. Only problem I see with this is the highly popular belief that CEGEP in terms of education is kinda worthless (not saying it is). I know some kids (my brother as a clear exemple) that chose to go to play for a prep school in the USA to get a chance at NCAA visibility AND he gets to skip CEGEP that way also. Playing equivalent level here would've been bad for his schooling and probably his development as there is so many gimmicks. All that to say some kids might not want to enroll in a CEGEP team if QMJHL disappear.

    QMJHL and Hockey Quebec are closely linked and you can see a switch in recent years in minor hockey. Some of our best players end up playing in schools. Minor hockey is getting more weak by the year.
     
  22. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    No, its not easy to see where he lived based on his father's career. Not all families of professional hockey players live where the father is playing at any given point in time. For all we know, Bordeleau lived a number of years in the USA.

    I think your point is well taken about the issue. I just don't get the point in trying to use any player with Canadian parents as an example when we don't actually know their specific situation.

    Edit: Seems like the article posted above somewhat states he didn't live much of his life in the USA. If so, fair enough. Doesn't seem like he spent much time in the USA, but as I said, its his life. No one's forcing him to play for a country he doesn't identify with, if that was the case. He thinks this is the best decision for his career. I don't know how anyone could fault the kid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  23. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    Canada should create a NTDP for Canadian kids that want to play college hockey. There are a lot of good players that go that route every year. They could play in the USHL, like the USNTDP does. Base it out of Toronto. Add that team to the USHL, and I think it would run well. Russia tried this program one year, and I thought it ran pretty well.

    The obstacle to Canada trying it is the CHL. Its the same obstacle to 18 and 19 year olds playing in the AHL. A junior hockey league should not hold so much power. The NCAA rules on amateurism in college athletics are not going to be changed, so unless the CHL changes their rules, these players will be ineligible for NCAA once they play in the CHL.
     
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  24. Dodospice

    Dodospice Registered User

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    I don’t think it’ll ever happen because of the CHL but you look at the Jr. A leagues across Canada and in the states, as well as guys going the prep route to keep that NCAA option open and I think you’d have the ability to really nurture these kids like the USNTDP does and give them an option in their back yard to pick from. There’s plenty of opportunity for them to play in tournaments/leagues like the US team does.
     
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  25. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    Bordeleau leads the 17's in points. Its a very low scoring team, so his point totals aren't anywhere near as good as some of the better forwards on the 18's. I think he has the same offensive talent as players like Zegras and Turcotte on the 18's, but he's on a much worse team. Bordeleau is also a little shorter than those players. 5'9 centers usually aren't picked that high, but I could see him being a mid-first. He has elite skill, playmaking and skating. He also plays a good 200 foot game and has a good hockey IQ.




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