C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part III

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Previous thread: C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2020 Draft) II

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[cyclones22]

This thread needs some action. Hope the Kings draft this kid!

Longest offseason ever...October 9th finally in sight!

 

[KevSkillz4]

I hope Kings don't draft him and draft Stutzle. So Sens can draft Byfield and have him and Brown at C, two big overrated C.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I hope Kings don't draft him and draft Stutzle. So Sens can draft Byfield and have him and Brown at C, two big overrated C.

Like the Canadiens passing on Brady Tkachuk for Kotkaniemi, who has more than double the amount of points and considerably more goals than the player the Habs selected 3rd overall?

 

[KevSkillz4]

Like the Canadiens passing on Brady Tkachuk for Kotkaniemi, who has more than double the amount of points and considerably more goals than the player the Habs selected 3rd overall?

More like Kotkaniemi going to be a real #1 C and Tkachuk just a top 6 player?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

More like Kotkaniemi going to be a real #1 C and Tkachuk just a top 6 player?

Sure, a top six player who has more goals than Kotkaniemi's 42 points. I guess if anyone should know about overrated prospects, you'd be the authority figure here.

 

[simonedvinsson]

Lafreniere is better.

 

[Rorschach]

Good way to start off this thread...

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Good way to start off this thread...

Yup....yikes!

 

[bsu]

Hope the kings take him, I think stutzle will be better but I think kings will take stutzle.

 

[Samsquanch]

Sadly if he goes the Sens, I know for certain (from firsthand experience as both a Wolves and Sens fan - small market teams) that the disproportionate amount disrespect and doubt that Byfield gets will follow him until he posts multiple star level seasons at the pro level.

Hes absolutely going to do it, but one day were going to ask the question why he of all players got dragged down and picked apart by so many people. And the answer could be an ugly one, but somehow not surprising in this sport.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

More like Kotkaniemi going to be a real #1 C and Tkachuk just a top 6 player?

Byfield would eat Kotkaniemi for breakfast and crap him out before lunch

 

[BradyTkachucky]

More like Kotkaniemi going to be a real #1 C and Tkachuk just a top 6 player?

I can't wait for a head to head playoff battle betwee Kotka and Chucky. I think it won't go well for KK lol

 

[Just Linda]

I can't wait for a head to head playoff battle betwee Kotka and Chucky. I think it won't go well for KK lol

Both are 20, Tkatchuk is far more of a polished prospect than Kotkaneimi. 24 would be a better comparison age.

Either way, neither Kotkaneimi nor Tkatchuk are good comparables for Byfield. Actually scratch that, Kotkaneimi is a good comparable in some ways in that neither are finished, both have flaws in skating mechanics, Kotkaneimi's development of a rough side to his game is a good example for Byfield etc.

 

[lanky]

one day were going to ask the question why he of all players got dragged down and picked apart by so many people. And the answer could be an ugly one, but somehow not surprising in this sport.

I hear what you're saying and I think there's a lot of truth to that sad reality.

 

[Just Linda]

I hear what you're saying and I think there's a lot of truth to that sad reality.

I think that plays a big role but also looking at the people dragging him through the mud, you can tell who have watched him and analyzed his game and who have the limited opinions shared by certain reporters and scouts. I think about 1/5 - 1/10 scouts who reported on him came back with an imaginary work ethic report or attitude report or engagement report that wasn't shared by others, these few seemed to have spoiled the bunch.

 

[Osprey]

I hear what you're saying and I think there's a lot of truth to that sad reality.

The reality is that a black player will be drafted in the top 3 for, I believe, the first time ever. The sad part, IMO, is that people are imagining things as negative and "ugly" instead of seeing the actual positives and celebrating how far the sport has come.

Players get criticized and even passed over often. The poster that you quoted said "he of all players" to make it look like an issue of race, but, if you take "all players" to mean ever, it's happened to many players regardless of race. Just last year, Arthur Kaliyev was expected to be drafted by the middle of the 1st round, yet he dropped all of the way to the 2nd because of a supposed "poor work ethic." Can you imagine if he had been black? People would've been convinced that he fell because of it and condemned the league for it.

No one questioned Byfield being the #2 pick until January. It's not that that's when he became black. That's just when he had a poor WJC and Stutzle surged into the conversation. He's faced extra scrutiny since because there's now a debate about whether he might slip to #3... and why. There's no mystery to it. The only mystery is why people assume that it's racism when he was the consensus #2 for a year and a half and will still make history by going in the top 3. There's a lot of reason to feel good about the progress represented here and not a lot of reason to see and feel the opposite, IMO.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Byfield would eat Kotkaniemi for breakfast and crap him out before lunch

That's a hell of a metabolism, good sign

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

That's a hell of a metabolism, good sign

Do they test this at combine?

 

[King'sPawn]

The reality is that a black player will be drafted in the top 3 for, I believe, the first time ever. The sad part, IMO, is that people would rather imagine it as an example of how "ugly" the sport is than celebrate how far it's come.

Players get criticized and even passed over often. The poster that you quoted said "he of all players" to make it look like an issue of race, but, if you take "all players" to mean ever, it's happened to many players regardless of race. Just last year, Arthur Kaliyev was expected to be drafted by the middle of the 1st round, yet he dropped all of the way to the 2nd because of a supposed "poor work ethic." Can you imagine if he had been black? People would've been convinced that he fell because of it and condemned the league for it.

No one questioned Byfield being the #2 pick until January. It's not that that's when he became black. That's just when he had a poor WJC and Stutzle surged into the conversation. He's faced extra scrutiny since because there's now a debate about whether he might slip to #3... and why. There's no mystery to it. The only mystery is why people assume that it's racism when he was the consensus #2 for a year and a half and will still make history by going in the top 3. There's a lot of reason to feel good about the progress represented here and not a lot of reason to see and feel the opposite, IMO.

Except when he has questionably and inexplicably been treated differently.

I'm on my phone, but long story short, there was one draft publication who talked about all the qualities and pros of the various prospects. Players ranked much lower than the No. 2/3 ranked Byfield.

When Lafreniére had an underwhelming 2019 WJC, the criticisms against him were "unfair" and scoring a goal was a huge redeeming moment. With Byfield this year, despite being the same age as Laf last year, all those same criticisms are more met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" at best.

I know - DY-1 vs DY, but he is getting treated and evaluated less fairly than others. And I will be happy at how far things have come, but we can still recognize how far we have to go.

 

[Osprey]

Except when he has questionably and inexplicably been treated differently.

I'm on my phone, but long story short, there was one draft publication who talked about all the qualities and pros of the various prospects. Players ranked much lower than the No. 2/3 ranked Byfield.

I think that I know what you're referring to. It talked more about what Byfield needed to work on, while it talked more about what the other top players were already good at. There are lots of possible explanations. First, Byfield is the youngest and rawest of the top players in the draft. He has more to work on than other players, like Lafrieniere and Rossi, who are said to be more NHL ready. Also, his size may lead some people to expect him to be stronger than he is or think that he's not trying hard enough. Also, he had a disappointing WJC, which may've hurt confidence in him. He's the only player that they highlighted who hasn't climbed, as well. He was the consensus #2 for a year and a half. Also, it's not uncommon for there to be a little extra scrutiny for the #2 pick, since he's usually compared to the #1 (i.e. after profiling Lafreniere, who's excellent at everything, you might naturally point out areas where he's not as excellent as Lafreniere). Also, perhaps the guy who wrote the bit on Byfield (who isn't necessarily the same one who did the other prospects) just isn't a fan. If so, there's nothing wrong with that. Finally, it could've just been a fluke coincidence. It was one draft publication and who's the say that the others weren't unfair to other players, but it was either chalked up to other reasons or not even noticed because they're not black? Any of those reasons are more likely than a professional publication not liking the color of his skin, IMO.

When Lafreniére had an underwhelming 2019 WJC, the criticisms against him were "unfair" and scoring a goal was a huge redeeming moment. With Byfield this year, despite being the same age as Laf last year, all those same criticisms are more met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" at best.

I don't follow. Criticisms being called "unfair" and criticisms being met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" sound like equal treatment to me.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Except when he has questionably and inexplicably been treated differently.

I'm on my phone, but long story short, there was one draft publication who talked about all the qualities and pros of the various prospects. Players ranked much lower than the No. 2/3 ranked Byfield.

When Lafreniére had an underwhelming 2019 WJC, the criticisms against him were "unfair" and scoring a goal was a huge redeeming moment. With Byfield this year, despite being the same age as Laf last year, all those same criticisms are more met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" at best.

I know - DY-1 vs DY, but he is getting treated and evaluated less fairly than others. And I will be happy at how far things have come, but we can still recognize how far we have to go.

I'm not so sure what's so special about Byfield's treatment. All these top prospects get nitpicked, especially after the lottery, when non-bottom-3 fans suddenly decide these guys are overrated.

And it's not like there's no grounds to criticize him. Outside of the OHL, his showings have been rough this year, for a prospect of his caliber. A good, but underwhelming Hlinka, where he would have been expected to dominate. A somewhat disappointing WJC. Invisible at the CHL prospects game. Then he was robbed of a chance to shine in the OHL playoffs. It's a given that it would generate negative responses.

Plus it's not like people are putting him on DND lists. He's still generally the preferred choice at #2 in the draft (for myself included).

 

[jc17]

Except when he has questionably and inexplicably been treated differently.

I'm on my phone, but long story short, there was one draft publication who talked about all the qualities and pros of the various prospects. Players ranked much lower than the No. 2/3 ranked Byfield.

When Lafreniére had an underwhelming 2019 WJC, the criticisms against him were "unfair" and scoring a goal was a huge redeeming moment. With Byfield this year, despite being the same age as Laf last year, all those same criticisms are more met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" at best.

I know - DY-1 vs DY, but he is getting treated and evaluated less fairly than others. And I will be happy at how far things have come, but we can still recognize how far we have to go.

I think you're half right.

The publication thing and the random comments about work ethic that pop up occasionally, among other things, can definitely be blamed on biases.

But then you lose me at the WJC thing. People will overreact to a tournament like that regardless. To say people are critical of his performance there is because of race is a big stretch. Its sports, people always will react to small sample sizes with recency biases.

You mention the whole dy vs dy-1 like it's an after thought, when it's sort of a big deal. Draft year has historically been a better indicator, but that's another rabbit hole.

I guess my point is I agree with you that some people are biased and more critical of him, but overall I think the discussion of him would largely be the same regardless of race. Maybe a few less critical voices, but not a significant difference

 

[Just Linda]

The reality is that a black player will be drafted in the top 3 for, I believe, the first time ever. The sad part, IMO, is that people are imagining things as negative and "ugly" instead of seeing the actual positives and celebrating how far the sport has come.

Players get criticized and even passed over often. The poster that you quoted said "he of all players" to make it look like an issue of race, but, if you take "all players" to mean ever, it's happened to many players regardless of race. Just last year, Arthur Kaliyev was expected to be drafted by the middle of the 1st round, yet he dropped all of the way to the 2nd because of a supposed "poor work ethic." Can you imagine if he had been black? People would've been convinced that he fell because of it and condemned the league for it.

No one questioned Byfield being the #2 pick until January. It's not that that's when he became black. That's just when he had a poor WJC and Stutzle surged into the conversation. He's faced extra scrutiny since because there's now a debate about whether he might slip to #3... and why. There's no mystery to it. The only mystery is why people assume that it's racism when he was the consensus #2 for a year and a half and will still make history by going in the top 3. There's a lot of reason to feel good about the progress represented here and not a lot of reason to see and feel the opposite, IMO.

I mostly agree with you, just not at why Kaliyev fell. Kaliyev is a very flawed prospect, he's great with the puck but far below average when it's not on his stick. He's made some great advancement though this year.

 

[Osprey]

I mostly agree with you, just not at why Kaliyev fell. Kaliyev is a very flawed prospect, he's great with the puck but far below average when it's not on his stick. He's made some great advancement though this year.

Yeah, I wasn't saying that their flaws were similar or of similar severity. After all, Kaliyev fell 15-20 spots, whereas Byfield will likely fall one or none at all. Also, I realize that there are many reasons why he fell. I simply bothered to list only one, as you did.