C Mikhail Grigorenko (2012, 12th, BUF; traded to COL) IV

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

Did he have problems in junior hockey, I don't remember hearing that, just that people claimed he was really 40 or something. This is the first I've read he has a bad attitude.

That's funny if he's giving people a bad attitude considering he hasn't even played that good.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Did he have problems in junior hockey, I don't remember hearing that, just that people claimed he was really 40 or something. This is the first I've read he has a bad attitude.

That's funny if he's giving people a bad attitude considering he hasn't even played that good.

Never heard of bad attitude in 2 seasons with Quebec. Roy questioned his compete level on the ice but he never mentioned bad attitude. He said he was a good kid.

 

[Moskau]

You have to remember that Rob Ray is relaying this information. Players from that mid 1990s era on think every young player in the league acts entitled.

 

[DJB]

Except Girgensons and Risto actually look like they belong in the bigs. They both seem incredibly mature for their age, on the ice and off. Nolan doesn't like playing youngsters, and he took several out of the line-up, but kept them, even giving Girgensons more responsibility by switching him to center. He did that for a reason. It's not like we don't have veteran plugs who could've been called up (ie: Porter, Kaleta, Ellis).

Looks like Sabres management agreed with me and did the right thing.

Why should this be solely on the team? No prospect is guaranteed to be a star. Moreover, if you look at both of the teams best players in recent times, you'll notice they were "rushed". As opposed to two of their bigger "bust" in recent times De Haan and Russell who were given plenty of developmental time in lower leagues.

Is it fair to compare De Haan and Russell to Tavares or Nash? Of course not, but it isn't fair to blame organizations for a prospect not becoming a star. Stop looking at potential like it's a guarantee.

How many 1st rounds are "rushed" each year? 8 tops? And it's not the GM's call, it's the coaches.

Why is there this massive misconception that rushing a player "ruined" them? Show me proof of a player who was going to be a star if he wasn't "rushed". You can't, development is impossible to prove. So stop talking in facts when it comes to "proper" development.

It's not simply based on "team". I simply chose the Isles and Jackets because they have a history of rushing prospects and them not turning out as well as their draft status says they should.

Bailey, Nino, Dipietro (even worse to do this to a goaltender), etc The list goes on and on.


There is way too much pressure on 18 year old 1st rounders especially when they are drafted high and go straight to the NHL. THese kids think that because they are in the NHL with their high NHL pick that they need to be the "saviour" or maybe carry a team. And since they play on worse teams it becomes harder and harder to do so. These kids(nearly most) simply don't have the maturity to step right in and properly develop in the NHL.

Red Wings are known as the best organization at developing prospects, not many kids make their club as an 18 year. Most of their prospects finish their junior career and also play at least one season in the AHL before becoming a regular in the NHL.

Buffalo is doing the right thing by sending down their kids.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

 

[EichHart]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

Guess it was worth a shot.

 

[dire wolf]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

That stinks. Rochester is exactly where he needs to play. They ought to let every team exempt 1 player from the CHL-NHL agreement. He's now the poster boy for my proposal.

 

[BobDobolina]

What a mess they have made of this kid. He was clearly not good enough to stay up last year, sometimes you just have to wonder what the hell some of these teams are thinking.

 

[tsujimoto74]

What a mess they have made of this kid. He was clearly not good enough to stay up last year, sometimes you just have to wonder what the hell some of these teams are thinking.

Yep. That was the big gaffe. If the Sabres had handled him properly, he would've gotten his 9 games and gone right back to the Q, where he would still be tearing it up, and most of this "wow, what a bust" talk would have no reason to exist.

I still maintain that I think he could develop in a very sheltered 3rd line role in the NHL, because he did show some progress up with Buffalo, even if he wasn't lighting the world on fire. But the trouble there is Buffalo doesn't really have a way to provide that kind of role with our roster. Our top 2 forward lines are Moulson/Hodgson/Stafford and Ennis/Leino/Ott; no line there capable of going head to head with other teams' top lines on a nightly basis to provide that shelter to the lower lines. And the bottom 2 lines -- Foligno/Girgensons/Flynn and Scott/McCormick/Tropp -- are clearly chip, chase, and cycle style checking lines, where Grigorenko wouldn't fit in without radically altering his game anyway.

I'm actually beginning to side with some of the Russian posters who insist he would've been better off if he never went to the CHL. If he had gone the KHL route, he would've been able to develop at his own pace and then come over to North America as an NHL player, rather than getting caught in the crappy situation he is.

 

[fahad203]

Yep. That was the big gaffe. If the Sabres had handled him properly, he would've gotten his 9 games and gone right back to the Q, where he would still be tearing it up, and most of this "wow, what a bust" talk would have no reason to exist.

I still maintain that I think he could develop in a very sheltered 3rd line role in the NHL, because he did show some progress up with Buffalo, even if he wasn't lighting the world on fire. But the trouble there is Buffalo doesn't really have a way to provide that kind of role with our roster. Our top 2 forward lines are Moulson/Hodgson/Stafford and Ennis/Leino/Ott; no line there capable of going head to head with other teams' top lines on a nightly basis to provide that shelter to the lower lines. And the bottom 2 lines -- Foligno/Girgensons/Flynn and Scott/McCormick/Tropp -- are clearly chip, chase, and cycle style checking lines, where Grigorenko wouldn't fit in without radically altering his game anyway.

I'm actually beginning to side with some of the Russian posters who insist he would've been better off if he never went to the CHL. If he had gone the KHL route, he would've been able to develop at his own pace and then come over to North America as an NHL player, rather than getting caught in the crappy situation he is.

The solution then is actually very simpler than you think. Just waive Leino.

 

[hototogisu]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

I don't really have any vested interest in the Sabres or Grigorenko or anything, but I'm glad to hear this. I always thought the "conditioning stint" was a funky grey area ripe for exploitation.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

That stinks. Rochester is exactly where he needs to play. They ought to let every team exempt 1 player from the CHL-NHL agreement. He's now the poster boy for my proposal.

You'd be basically guaranteed that 30 of the top CHL players under 20 would be in the AHL every season. This season they'd probably be missing Petan, Bjorkstrand, Shinakruk, Klimchuk, Drouin, Hudon, Mantha, Poirier, etc. etc. Even that 30 players out of the top end of the pool could potentially kill a lot of interest in the CHL fanbases (not saying it would, but it might).

 

[Chainshot]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

The conditioning "sprint" was clearly to have him run the 50 miles to Rochester yesterday and then back today.

So phantom Grigorenko injury in practice in three... two... one...

What a mess they have made of this kid. He was clearly not good enough to stay up last year, sometimes you just have to wonder what the hell some of these teams are thinking.

Thankfully the guy who thought it was a good idea is now unemployed.

 

[cybresabre]

So phantom Grigorenko injury in practice in three... two... one...

Then the NHL takes our first rounder for trying to job the system... Misery loves company, eh New Jersey?

 

[Tiranis]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 39s
According to a well placed source, the NHL wouldn't approve Grigorenko's conditioning stint to Rochester. He will be heading back to Buffalo

I guess you have to be ''injured'' to have a conditioning stint?

Nope, don't have to be injured. You just have to make a sufficient case for it and the player has to approve it. Canucks sent Dalpe down for a conditioning stint without any injuries.

In this case, it's pretty obvious that the Sabres were simply trying to circumvent the NHL - CHL agreement.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

In this case, Grigorenko would have needed to be injured to be allowed to have a conditioning stint is what I am trying to get at.

Bogosian had a conditioning stint in the AHL in his rookie season at age 18 after missing several weeks with an injury.

 

[Mathletic]

I don't know if I heard this right but apparently, if he's returned to the Remparts after the trading deadline, the Remparts would be allowed to dress 3 euros.

I don't know when camp for team Russia begins but if it's the same as for Canada, it should begin when his AHL assignement ends. That way, he'd be returned after the WJC, trade deadline would be passed in the Q, hence he'd remain with the Remparts.

 

[Mathletic]

I listened to an interview with Remparts' radio play-by-play guy. He did the research on the possible outcomes for Grigorenko.

Either the Sabres return him right after his re-hab in Rochester. In that case, the Remparts would have to trade Sorensen if they want Grigorenko in the lineup. Remparts, nor any other teams, are allowed to trade a first-year euro. So, they could not trade Herzog.

If the Remparts choose not to retain his rights, Grigorenko could go straight to the AHL. He would not have to clear CHL euro waivers.

If the Sabres return Grigorenko to Québec after the WJC. The trade deadline would be passed in the Q. The Remparts would be allowed to keep all 3 euros and dress all 3 in any game.

 

[Moskau]

If the Remparts choose not to retain his rights, Grigorenko could go straight to the AHL. He would not have to clear CHL euro waivers.

Interesting if true. It's been believed on the Sabres boards that he would have to clear all 3 leagues before being eligible to go to the AHL.

 

[Montreal Impact FC]

i wouldnt mind taking a flyer on this kid.. Mickey Grigorenko for Nate Beaulieu and a 3th?

 

[Kevin Forbes]

If the Sabres return Grigorenko to Québec after the WJC. The trade deadline would be passed in the Q. The Remparts would be allowed to keep all 3 euros and dress all 3 in any game.

I don't believe this part is true.

Also, talking about this conditioning stint thing: the Los Angeles Kings were able to successfully pull a similar stunt with Brayden Schenn a few years back (19 year old, junior eligible player, not injured, spent two weeks in minors then joined Team Canada for the World Juniors).

 

[FF de Mars]

Would the Sabres be interested in a 1st rounder for Grigorenko ? As a Habs fan I would, and I'm sure the Avs would as well.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The Avs would not trade their first round pick for another young center.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Would the Sabres be interested in a 1st rounder for Grigorenko ? As a Habs fan I would, and I'm sure the Avs would as well.

No. I'll give you a 1st for Galchenyuk tho.

 

[Mathletic]

I don't believe this part is true.

Also, talking about this conditioning stint thing: the Los Angeles Kings were able to successfully pull a similar stunt with Brayden Schenn a few years back (19 year old, junior eligible player, not injured, spent two weeks in minors then joined Team Canada for the World Juniors).

That's from Ray Cloutier. He was asked directly, could all 3 be dressed at the same time. He said yes if and only if Grigorenko is returned after the trading deadline.