C Mikhail Grigorenko (2012, 12th, BUF; traded to COL) IV

[tsujimoto74]

Another kid that was rushed to the NHL. Sabres should send Girgensons and Risto down too.

Just look at all the teams that have had trouble producing elite talent high pick prospects over the years, most of them were rushed;

Isles, Columbus, etc.

Rushing 1st rounders is the dumbest things GM's do every year and it's mind boggling. I think the Sens rushed Zib and Cowen as well to be honest.

Except Girgensons and Risto actually look like they belong in the bigs. They both seem incredibly mature for their age, on the ice and off. Nolan doesn't like playing youngsters, and he took several out of the line-up, but kept them, even giving Girgensons more responsibility by switching him to center. He did that for a reason. It's not like we don't have veteran plugs who could've been called up (ie: Porter, Kaleta, Ellis).

On topic: While Grigorenko had definitely showed improvement recently, he's just not a Nolan-style player. Grigs might have been able to develop and progress in a sheltered 3rd line role, but Nolan won't make room for a player like that on the roster. A player like Grigs needs to be a top 6er or he won't play.
It really sucks that he can't be sent to the AHL. The Q just seems so useless for him. He doesn't need to try hard to be an excellent junior player. Not enough challenge for him at that level, but too much in the NHL.

 

[Chainshot]

Ristolainen is rumored to be heading to Rochester right now. Girgensons seems like a Nolan-ite --- high motor, high compete. I doubt he goes back unless he really starts to struggle.

In Grigorenko news, Buffalo reportedly in communication with Boucher this morning about sending him back. It'll be interesting to see what Quebec does with him.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

The situation sucks for Grigorenko. Looks like Buffalo stupidly brought him up when he wasn't even ready for the NHL, just like the vast majority of prospects his age, and now he isn't doing well people are talking like he's a bust or something. I feel bad at him. It's not his fault the team's previous management and coachign was incredibly incompetent.

 

[1Gold Standard]

The situation sucks for Grigorenko. Looks like Buffalo stupidly brought him up when he wasn't even ready for the NHL, just like the vast majority of prospects his age, and now he isn't doing well people are talking like he's a bust or something. I feel bad at him. It's not his fault the team's previous management and coachign was incredibly incompetent.

Ya Buffalo really messed this up big time.. for 95% of junior aged kids, they are better off finishing their junior careers with their junior teams. And that includes Reilly. Leafs are not doing him any favors.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Ya Buffalo really messed this up big time.. for 95% of junior aged kids, they are better off finishing their junior careers with their junior teams. And that includes Reilly. Leafs are not doing him any favors.

Agreed on both counts. Well, at least they're doing it now. Better late than never.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

Ya Buffalo really messed this up big time.. for 95% of junior aged kids, they are better off finishing their junior careers with their junior teams. And that includes Reilly. Leafs are not doing him any favors.

Well imo Rielly was fine when he was playing but then Carlyle started scratching him which is just stupid. Why have a player up if you're just going to scratch him. If it keeps up, Carlyle keeps scratching him, you are right the Leafs have done him no favours. But I think he should just be allowed to play.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Well imo Rielly was fine when he was playing but then Carlyle started scratching him which is just stupid. Why have a player up if you're just going to scratch him. If it keeps up, Carlyle keeps scratching him, you are right the Leafs have done him no favours. But I think he should just be allowed to play.

Give him a few more games in T.O. and then send him to the world juniors and after that, let him finish out the year in junior..hey maybe even a shot at the World Championship team in May...

 

[sjci]

I think the CHL/NHL/AHL agreement is just stupid. I understand the concept behind it, but it's pointless when you have players like this who aren't yet ready for the NHL but the CHL would be a joke for them.

There really should be an amendment or reworking of the agreement to allow either ALL foreign players (not just the one's who stay in Europe, but those that go over to the CHL) to be able to play in the AHL by 18 or 19.

Or even just allowing 1st Round Picks to play in the AHL. That may be an easier selling point.

 

[Mathletic]

If agents are smart, the Grigorenko case will just lead to many high-profile european prospects NOT coming over to play in the CHL in their draft year. The CHL/AHL agreement rule prevents these players from being assigned to the AHL and re-called at will by the NHL team. Grigorenko would benefit a lot from playing in the AHL right now but instead Buffalo only has two choices: NHL or QMJHL.

Look at a guy like Elias Lindholm, who has been assigned to the AHL. It's a good development league for him who's already close to NHL ready. He can make his mark down there and be recalled in February. It's good for him. Way better than playing in Sarnia or something.

Look at guys like Barbashev and Ehlers in the Q. Two potential 1st rounders next season. What if they played in Europe ? They could be in the AHL by next season. But they won't. They'll be stuck in the Q for 2 more seasons.

Barbashev only has one more year to play in the Q before graduating to the AHL/NHL. He's a late b-day, so he's playing his 18 year old season.

Although Ehlers would have the talent to play in the AHL. He still has to fill in quite a bit in order to avoid injuries and playing to his talent level against mature players.

 

[sjci]

@SabresProspects 8m
Will Sabres use their two-week AHL conditioning stint first before dispatching Grigorenko back to QMJHL? Hope so.

 

[Patmac40]

He got sent to the AHL.

@BuffaloSabres: NEWS ALERT: Pat LaFontaine announces #Sabres assign Ristolainen, Larsson to @AmerksHockey along with Grigorenko on a conditioning assignment

 

[Chainshot]

The plot thickens. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that they are doing this to get him game action while awaiting a move by the Remparts to send his rights somewhere else in the Q.

 

[billcook]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draft/NHL_2012_entry.html

So many effective roster players...

 

[stokes84]

Can Quebec refuse the player? Thus allowing him to go full time to the AHL?

 

[Mathletic]

Can Quebec refuse the player? Thus allowing him to go full time to the AHL?

My guess is that he'd have to clear waivers for the entire CHL and not just the Q. If that was the case, then he'd be free to go in any league he wants.

 

[Jussi]

I think the CHL/NHL/AHL agreement is just stupid. I understand the concept behind it, but it's pointless when you have players like this who aren't yet ready for the NHL but the CHL would be a joke for them.

There really should be an amendment or reworking of the agreement to allow either ALL foreign players (not just the one's who stay in Europe, but those that go over to the CHL) to be able to play in the AHL by 18 or 19.

Or even just allowing 1st Round Picks to play in the AHL. That may be an easier selling point.

I agree with this. At least allow loaning them to a European club, if AHL is such a big no-no.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draft/NHL_2012_entry.html

So many effective roster players...

That list is not up to date. It does not reflect all the players currently in the NHL (not reflected are Murray, Rielly, Lindholm, Dumba, Trouba, Hertl, Maatta, and Girgensons). It's less than two seasons after the draft and 16 players from the first round have seen time - that's not bad.

 

[Peter25]

Why why why why why did he go to the QMJHL??????

He was more talented than Nichushkin at 16. If he had done what Nichushkin did (REMAIN IN RUSSIA) he would be an NHL regular by now.

 

[Peter25]

Well, practically taken this means his NHL-career is next to over. Grigs will bolt to KHL in no time - didn't have the drive to thrive in the NHL. I know - I'm jumping the gun. But what else should you think about this debacle?

Wrong.

His development was ruined by North American development system. He should have stayed in Russia.

He had the drive and desire to play in the NHL. That is why he came to play junior hockey in Canada. He wanted to choose "the fastest way to the NHL".

He was mislead by scouts and agents, and this mistake probably cost him his career.

Hopefully the future Russian players will see what happened to Grigorenko and many more before him and won't leave Russia until they are fully developed hockey players.

 

[Pi]

Ya Buffalo really messed this up big time.. for 95% of junior aged kids, they are better off finishing their junior careers with their junior teams. And that includes Reilly. Leafs are not doing him any favors.

Not really.

If you watch the game you would know that Rielly is perfectly fine playing in the NHL.

I'd scratch Ranger or Fraser in favor of Rielly but that is not my decision to make. When you have veterans you have to favor them.

“When you see him join the rush, and you see him make plays and his skating ability, you only see glimpses of it now, but there’s a lot more coming with Morgan Rielly,” Carlyle said. “It’s up to us to manage that properly. That’s our responsibility as an organization to make sure to some degree he’s protected. We think the situation he’s in right now, practising with us, playing when we so choose, that it’s only going to help his development and he’ll be a pro for a great number of years.”

“I really want to make a difference and I think I’m capable of doing that,” Rielly said. “I just have to do that a bit more often lately and hopefully it’s in the net next time.”

“I think Morgan is right on course,” Carlyle said. “He’s a 19 year old defenceman that is trying to cut his teeth in the NHL and I think he’s doing a heckuva job. It’s difficult at times and we know that there’s going to be struggles in certain areas of the game. But there’s a lot of growth taking place with a young player like him. He’s not overwhelmed by anything that goes on out there.”

Grigorenko and Rielly are two completely different situations.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Wrong.

His development was ruined by North American development system. He should have stayed in Russia.

He had the drive and desire to play in the NHL. That is why he came to play junior hockey in Canada. He wanted to choose "the fastest way to the NHL".

He was mislead by scouts and agents, and this mistake probably cost him his career.

Hopefully the future Russian players will see what happened to Grigorenko and many more before him and won't leave Russia until they are fully developed hockey players.

Quoting someone who hasn't watched Grigorenko play at the professional level.

He needs a lot of development. He would have needed a lot of development no matter which system he was in up to this point.

I'm not saying the Sabres handled him correctly (they didn't), but what you are saying is patently false.

 

[Macman]

Grigorenko has almost zero compete. It has nothing to do with CHL vs. Russia or Buffalo ruining him. He floats and can't, or won't, elevate his game. It's why his stock fell his draft year and why he'll likely never live up to his talent.

 

[BIitz]

Ya Buffalo really messed this up big time.. for 95% of junior aged kids, they are better off finishing their junior careers with their junior teams. And that includes Reilly. Leafs are not doing him any favors.

How does playing out their junior careers make them any better? Is Torey Krug making less rookie mistakes than Rielly is? Of course not, they struggle all the same.

Hello Friends

Just look at all the teams that have had trouble producing elite talent high pick prospects over the years, most of them were rushed;

Why should this be solely on the team? No prospect is guaranteed to be a star. Moreover, if you look at both of the teams best players in recent times, you'll notice they were "rushed". As opposed to two of their bigger "bust" in recent times De Haan and Russell who were given plenty of developmental time in lower leagues.

Is it fair to compare De Haan and Russell to Tavares or Nash? Of course not, but it isn't fair to blame organizations for a prospect not becoming a star. Stop looking at potential like it's a guarantee.

Rushing 1st rounders is the dumbest things GM's do every year and it's mind boggling. I think the Sens rushed Zib and Cowen as well to be honest.

How many 1st rounds are "rushed" each year? 8 tops? And it's not the GM's call, it's the coaches.

Why is there this massive misconception that rushing a player "ruined" them? Show me proof of a player who was going to be a star if he wasn't "rushed". You can't, development is impossible to prove. So stop talking in facts when it comes to "proper" development.

 

[Deevo]

X-post from the Sabres board..

Whether you like the guy or not Rob Ray was on WGR today and confirmed what some guys like Hamilton have been saying about Grigorenko. He's a hot head that is full of himself and feels completely entitled. He doesn't do what any of the coaches ask him and has completely tuned out coaches and teammates. Said that he needs to be sent down to be woken up. Said that Grigorenko gives off impression to other people that they should wait on him hand over foot and that it will be very lonely for him in the AHL unless he grows up.

So there you have it. Ray had positive things to say about every other guy being sent down. He's absolutely in love with Zadorov. Said that he could play in the NHL right now because he gets what it takes and is very confident but it's better he gets in the games in London.

Like I said you can hate Ray but he's in touch with the players more than anyone. This is now the 3rd person to basically say this about Grigorenko including Patrick Roy. I think a lot of people including myself felt that because he came over to North America and learned English so fast that he must be a very mature young man but it's fairly apparent that he's very immature and will need at least a year or two in the AHL after this year before he's ready.

Ted Nolan said yesterday that he could tell right away some of the guys on the team needed a kick in the ass, I guess we know who one of them was.

 

[Sartorial]

Sadly, I have to say Grigorenko looked way too soft. Those who watched him (with an average to keen eye) in the NHL would likely agree that he just had no compete.

That being said, I really hope to see him for Russia at the WJCs.