C Marco Rossi - Ottawa 67’s, OHL (2020 Draft)

[simonedvinsson]

Very true, though Forsberg likely still covered more ice with a short stick than Rossi will.

I don't mean to sound too down on Rossi, I think he's a wonderful player. I just think people are too quick to handwave away size concerns. We keep saying we're in a new hockey era, but there aren't many more NHL regulars under 5'10 now than there were in 2004 (27 vs 22 with at least 20 games played). Size is still a helpful, projectable quality for an NHL player, and smaller players still have to work harder, be smarter and skate faster than their peers to make an impact.

I actually agree with that, but to your last statement, by all accounts, Rossi works harder, plays smarter, and skates faster than his peers. As to the speed skating cause I know some disagree, he shows it when he needs to, but he’s not wizzing around all the time for no reason a la Stranges. He’s smarter than that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The kid is also only 18 so he may have a growth spurt left in him. Would people still be crapping on his size if he was 5'11" 195-200lbs instead of 5'9" 185lbs in his prime 5 years from now?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The kid is also only 18 so he may have a growth spurt left in him. Would people still be crapping on his size if he was 5'11" 195-200lbs instead of 5'9" 185lbs in his prime 5 years from now?

I used in another thread the example of Brayden Point, who was drafted at 5'9", 160 something.

I think people are really splitting hairs on the difference, looking for reasons to drop him when other prospects in the top 10 are 1 inch (possibly less) taller and lighter or similar weight.

I'm a guy who believes that all things being equal take the bigger/potentially bigger player, but I don't think all things are equal between Rossi and some of his top 10 peers.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I used in another thread the example of Brayden Point, who was drafted at 5'9", 160 something.

I think people are really splitting hairs on the difference, looking for reasons to drop him when other prospects in the top 10 are 1 inch (possibly less) taller and lighter or similar weight.

I'm a guy who believes that all things being equal take the bigger/potentially bigger player, but I don't think all things are equal between Rossi and some of his top 10 peers.

I also don't think that all things are equal between Rossi and the others in the top of the draft. If Rossi was 6'0" he'd be in the same conversation for the #2 spot as Stutzle and Byfield because of how much talent the kid has. At worst he looks like a Danny Briere-type center. At best a true franchise #1 that gets you 50-60 assists per year while playing an incredible two-way game. His stickhandling is up there as top 3 in the draft, his faceoffs and hand eye coordination are far better than his peers, and his passing is easily top 3. My only real question of his game is how good of a goal scorer will he be at the next level. 15-20 goal guy or 30 goal threat?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I also don't think that all things are equal between Rossi and the others in the top of the draft. If Rossi was 6'0" he'd be in the same conversation for the #2 spot as Stutzle and Byfield because of how much talent the kid has. At worst he looks like a Danny Briere-type center. At best a true franchise #1 that gets you 50-60 assists per year while playing an incredible two-way game. His stickhandling is up there as top 3 in the draft, his faceoffs and hand eye coordination are far better than his peers, and his passing is easily top 3. My only real question of his game is how good of a goal scorer will he be at the next level. 15-20 goal guy or 30 goal threat?

I personally cannot set the ceiling quite that high. I could see him as a first-line winger, but have a hard time seeing him as a franchise, number-one center. For the record I would say the same thing if he were an elite, elite, skater.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I personally cannot set the ceiling quite that high. I could see him as a first-line winger, but have a hard time seeing him as a franchise, number-one center. For the record I would say the same thing if he were an elite, elite, skater.

Why wouldn't he be a center? The guy is a faceoff monster. Best in this draft class. That's the kind of skill that players normally don't develop until several years into their pro career. On top of that, he's very responsible defensively.

 

[Agent Zub]

Honestly the way you win is to have all 3 forwards play like centers. Rossi being a winger just means you have another guy on the line that can fill into that spot when needed.

 

[bert]

Why wouldn't he be a center? The guy is a faceoff monster. Best in this draft class. That's the kind of skill that players normally don't develop until several years into their pro career. On top of that, he's very responsible defensively.

Id be shocked if he doesnt play center in the NHL he is really good down low at supporting the puck and breaking up plays. He comes up from under the puck very well and reads his d men at an elite level. I know people say its because of his size but he is very strong on pucks. I think this may limit his production offensively.

The Giroux comparison makes sense to me as he could end up playing both wing and center depending on the team and the personel but to start he will be a center.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Why wouldn't he be a center? The guy is a faceoff monster. Best in this draft class. That's the kind of skill that players normally don't develop until several years into their pro career. On top of that, he's very responsible defensively.

Why wouldn't he be a center or why wouldn't he be a franchise, number-one center? I don't see him in the middle on a consistent basis, up the lineup because I don't think he skates nearly as well as people describe or as well as he will need to. Specifically I think he needs to be more explosive with his first two steps and could stand to improve his lateral movement. I don't see this great small-space skater that everyone else does. This causes me to question how well he will be able to defend at his size/length in the defensive zone, even in a system where he is just asked to overload the puck carrier. I would certainly try him in the middle and give it a really honest try, but I am not drafting him with the expectation that he will be able to play that position. As for the second question, see above.

It isn't a knock on him, just as intellectually honest of an assessment as I can offer. Like it or not, there is a reason that you don't see many players his size playing center in the NHL. Now I can still see a case for him at 3 or 4 even if he ultimately ends up on the wing (or as a bit of a hybrid who can and does take offensive draws). I get the sense that his true believers feel that this won't be the case (which I find really, really puzzling). He is a really smart, versatile player who coaches will love.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I doubt Rossi would be at 9

I have my doubts too, but it wouldn’t shock me. Every year small players fall way later than they should. Last year Caufield was supposed to be a top 10 lock. I know he was more divisive, be nobody expected him to fall that far. I think 9 is the furthest I could see Rossi falling, though.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I think 9 is the furthest I could see Rossi falling, though.

If Montreal is picking 8, then 8 is the furthest possible spot he could fall. They're not concerned about height.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

If Montreal is picking 8, then 8 is the furthest possible spot he could fall. They're not concerned about height.

I’m inclined to believe you. I don’t think he gets to 9 I’m just saying it wouldn’t shock me

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Why wouldn't he be a center or why wouldn't he be a franchise, number-one center? I don't see him in the middle on a consistent basis, up the lineup because I don't think he skates nearly as well as people describe or as well as he will need to. Specifically I think he needs to be more explosive with his first two steps and could stand to improve his lateral movement. I don't see this great small-space skater that everyone else does. This causes me to question how well he will be able to defend at his size/length in the defensive zone, even in a system where he is just asked to overload the puck carrier. I would certainly try him in the middle and give it a really honest try, but I am not drafting him with the expectation that he will be able to play that position. As for the second question, see above.

It isn't a knock on him, just as intellectually honest of an assessment as I can offer. Like it or not, there is a reason that you don't see many players his size playing center in the NHL. Now I can still see a case for him at 3 or 4 even if he ultimately ends up on the wing (or as a bit of a hybrid who can and does take offensive draws). I get the sense that his true believers feel that this won't be the case (which I find really, really puzzling). He is a really smart, versatile player who coaches will love.

If the biggest criticism is his explosive skating, good. That seems to be one of the easiest things to improve. Plus, just about every one of the teams with a Rossi-able pick seem to have centers to choose from so if he ends up being more effective at wing, that's fine too. I just don't like people writing it off right away (you're not, just musing aloud).

It's not about liking it or not, I just find the premises fallacious. There just flat out aren't that many smaller players ranked high pre-draft period, never mind smaller Cs, suggesting it's never happened before means it shouldn't happen now isn't really a reasonable argument. It's important to know that 5'9" to 5'10" at C seems to be a big NHL C cutoff for some reason but people dropping him 10 slots from a generally-agreed upon ranking over it is a tough stance to defend, especially when there are a couple of other players within an inch of Rossi that no one has any qualms with ranked right up there.

After yesterday's chat I had to go back a bit and the best comp I could find for 5'9" player ranked so high was Mikael Granlund getting drafted at 9th overall in 2010. Make of that what you will.

And please, someone go back and tell 5'9" 160-something Brayden Point pre-draft that he's not allowed to play C in the nhl until he puts on that other inch. Rossi's got a half-inch to go before people give him top-10 credit, apparently.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Why wouldn't he be a center or why wouldn't he be a franchise, number-one center? I don't see him in the middle on a consistent basis, up the lineup because I don't think he skates nearly as well as people describe or as well as he will need to. Specifically I think he needs to be more explosive with his first two steps and could stand to improve his lateral movement. I don't see this great small-space skater that everyone else does. This causes me to question how well he will be able to defend at his size/length in the defensive zone, even in a system where he is just asked to overload the puck carrier. I would certainly try him in the middle and give it a really honest try, but I am not drafting him with the expectation that he will be able to play that position. As for the second question, see above.

It isn't a knock on him, just as intellectually honest of an assessment as I can offer. Like it or not, there is a reason that you don't see many players his size playing center in the NHL. Now I can still see a case for him at 3 or 4 even if he ultimately ends up on the wing (or as a bit of a hybrid who can and does take offensive draws). I get the sense that his true believers feel that this won't be the case (which I find really, really puzzling). He is a really smart, versatile player who coaches will love.

Maybe you caught one of the few bad games he had, or maybe you're confusing him with Perfetti (who definitely lacks lateral mobility)? I was fortunate enough to catch Rossi live a few times this year and each time became more and more impressed. Rossi is amongst the best prospects this draft at playing keepaway from his opponents. The term I'd use to describe his play with the puck is 'deceptively fast'. The kid is a master of slowing down his play down to draw defenders to him and then turn it up another notch to find the holes and make a play. Despite his small stature he is able to very smartly strip opposing players of the puck and skate away with it from his zone. His lateral movement and edgework are also amongst the best in his draft class. It's precisely his agility that's kept him from getting splatted by larger OHL defensemen. He and Stutzle are very agile, fast skaters with the difference being that Rossi doesn't have the jets on all the time like Stutzle does. He (Rossi) is a little more deliberate.

 

[simonedvinsson]

Maybe you caught one of the few bad games he had, or maybe you're confusing him with Perfetti (who definitely lacks lateral mobility)? I was fortunate enough to catch Rossi live a few times this year and each time became more and more impressed. Rossi is amongst the best prospects this draft at playing keepaway from his opponents. The term I'd use to describe his play with the puck is 'deceptively fast'. The kid is a master of slowing down his play down to draw defenders to him and then turn it up another notch to find the holes and make a play. Despite his small stature he is able to very smartly strip opposing players of the puck and skate away with it from his zone. His lateral movement and edgework are also amongst the best in his draft class. It's precisely his agility that's kept him from getting splatted by larger OHL defensemen. He and Stutzle are very agile, fast skaters with the difference being that Rossi doesn't have the jets on all the time like Stutzle does. He (Rossi) is a little more deliberate.

This is consistent with what I’ve seen. Reminds me of Datsyuk, who was drafted at 5’10” as an over-ager.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If the biggest criticism is his explosive skating, good. That seems to be one of the easiest things to improve. Plus, just about every one of the teams with a Rossi-able pick seem to have centers to choose from so if he ends up being more effective at wing, that's fine too. I just don't like people writing it off right away (you're not, just musing aloud).

It's not about liking it or not, I just find the premises fallacious. There just flat out aren't that many smaller players ranked high pre-draft period, never mind smaller Cs, suggesting it's never happened before means it shouldn't happen now isn't really a reasonable argument. It's important to know that 5'9" to 5'10" at C seems to be a big NHL C cutoff for some reason but people dropping him 10 slots from a generally-agreed upon ranking over it is a tough stance to defend, especially when there are a couple of other players within an inch of Rossi that no one has any qualms with ranked right up there.

After yesterday's chat I had to go back a bit and the best comp I could find for 5'9" player ranked so high was Mikael Granlund getting drafted at 9th overall in 2010. Make of that what you will.

And please, someone go back and tell 5'9" 160-something Brayden Point pre-draft that he's not allowed to play C in the nhl until he puts on that other inch. Rossi's got a half-inch to go before people give him top-10 credit, apparently.

Riddle me this: why is it so important that Rossi play center at the NHL level? What is wrong with him being a really high-end winger? Does it somehow make him a lesser or less draftable player? I don't get why this is the hill people want to die on.

I couldn't care less about "generally-agreed upon rankings" and you shouldn't either. All I care is that my team makes the right pick. I seriously couldn't care less about how it stacks up against the public handicappers if the public handicappers are wrong.

Lastly, improving skating on a relative basis is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Riddle me this: why is it so important that Rossi play center at the NHL level? What is wrong with him being a really high-end winger? Does it somehow make him a lesser or less draftable player? I don't get why this is the hill people want to die on.

I couldn't care less about "generally-agreed upon rankings" and you shouldn't either. All I care is that my team makes the right pick. I seriously couldn't care less about how it stacks up against the public handicappers if the public handicappers are wrong.

Lastly, improving skating on a relative basis is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be.

I agree, I don't think it's THAT important, especially for teams that have some flexibility, but it is definitely a draft consideration when you're in the lottery zone. I'm a big BPA guy so it matters damn near nothing to me personally.

The concern here, tying your first point to the second point and the discussion, is that some people are willing to drop him up to ten spots over what could be half an inch (and may end up being nothing at all if he grows) on the basis that there aren't a lot of 5'9" Cs in the NHL. I'm simply asserting that's a flimsy reason to drop a dude, no more no less. Obviously take your guy regardless of the 'consensus' rankings or whatever, I just feel that Rossi's size working against him is kind of a bunk opinion with Raymond and Perfetti floating around the same spot as well. I've seen him ranked as high as 3 and as low as 9 and I think those are all defensible, but dropping him out of the top 10? Someone's getting a steal.

And no I'm not at all saying that's easy, especially at an elite pro level, but fixing skating is a lot easier than fixing IQ/brain or height. If his 'problem' is explosiveness/first few step acceleration, well, that gives him a much clearer goal/objective for improvement than a guy with an iffy scoring touch.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I agree, I don't think it's THAT important, especially for teams that have some flexibility, but it is definitely a draft consideration when you're in the lottery zone. I'm a big BPA guy so it matters damn near nothing to me personally.

The concern here, tying your first point to the second point and the discussion, is that some people are willing to drop him up to ten spots over what could be half an inch (and may end up being nothing at all if he grows) on the basis that there aren't a lot of 5'9" Cs in the NHL. I'm simply asserting that's a flimsy reason to drop a dude, no more no less. Obviously take your guy regardless of the 'consensus' rankings or whatever, I just feel that Rossi's size working against him is kind of a bunk opinion with Raymond and Perfetti floating around the same spot as well. I've seen him ranked as high as 3 and as low as 9 and I think those are all defensible, but dropping him out of the top 10? Someone's getting a steal.

And no I'm not at all saying that's easy, especially at an elite pro level, but fixing skating is a lot easier than fixing IQ/brain or height. If his 'problem' is explosiveness/first few step acceleration, well, that gives him a much clearer goal/objective for improvement than a guy with an iffy scoring touch.

1. I personally think he is really logical starting at 3 or 4, but is part of a group of guys who also have reasonable claims to that spot. Raymond or Perfetti going before him does not make Rossi a worse player in my opinion. I think they are all part of the same talent tier. He is clearly one of the 10 best prospects in this draft class.

2. Yes, skating is easier to improve than IQ. No question about it. Again, I think the skating is only really a factor in terms of trying to play center for the record.

 

[Doanator]

Have you heard anything about him playing in Switzerland next year?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Have you heard anything about him playing in Switzerland next year?

He's thinking about it, If he doesn't make the NHL right away.

 

[Theokritos]

Bob McKenzie on Marco Rossi in comparison with Quinton Byfield and Tim Stützle:

"Rossi's productivity was impressive, even though the competition was enormous. He takes the game seriously, works hard, wants to win and trains to win. He isn't big but he has a lot of strength and professional approaches in his game. He is able to read the game very well and to organize, but he can also score goals. Some scouts think: What you see is what you get with him – that he won't grow anymore. His game is already developed, more so than that of younger players. But he is certainly a good top ten pick and if not, then he's not far from it. (...) Byfield is 1.93 [meters] and is the prototypical NHL first-line center. Big body, a good skater, protects the puck. Maybe not with great NHL hockey sense, but with playmaking abilities. And he can dominate a game. Rossi is possibly more consistent. Some scouts hope that Rossi too will become a first-line center. But I think he will rather be a second-line center. He's not as dynamic as Stützle. The German guy has better hands and hockey sense. So what makes the difference is Byfield's physical components and Stützle's dynamics, that's why Rossi isn't an A+ player in this draft."

Source (in German, translation by me)

 

[Kalv]

Bob McKenzie on Marco Rossi in comparison with Quinton Byfield and Tim Stützle:

"Rossi's productivity was impressive, even though the competition was enormous. He takes the game seriously, works hard, wants to win and trains to win. He isn't big but he has a lot of strength and professional approaches in his game. He is able to read the game very well and to organize, but he can also score goals. Some scouts think: What you see is what you get with him – that he won't grow anymore. His game is already developed, more so than that of younger players. But he is certainly a good top ten pick and if not, then he's not far from it. (...) Byfield is 1.93 [meters] and is the prototypical NHL first-line center. Big body, a good skater, protects the puck. Maybe not with great NHL hockey sense, but with playmaking abilities. And he can dominate a game. Rossi is possibly more consistent. Some scouts hope that Rossi too will become a first-line center. But I think he will rather be a second-line center. He's not as dynamic as Stützle. The German guy has better hands and hockey sense. So what makes the difference is Byfield's physical components and Stützle's dynamics, that's why Rossi isn't an A+ player in this draft."

Source (in German, translation by me)

''Maybe not with great NHL hockey sense, but with playmaking abilities. And he can dominate a game. '' This is head scratching for me. Who can dominate a game without a great hockey sense?

 

[Theokritos]

''Maybe not with great NHL hockey sense, but with playmaking abilities. And he can dominate a game. '' This is head scratching for me. Who can dominate a game without a great hockey sense?

Yeah, it's a strange sentence, but that's what the German version says.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

If it was another draft year he is a top 3 pick. The kid is getting sold short a bit (no pun intended). The only thing scaring me from taking him in the top 5 is thinking that his older age might be a factor in how much better he will get. Watch his highlights though , he is a very intelligent player. Not sure where the hockey iq critique is coming from.

 

[Theokritos]

Watch his highlights though , he is a very intelligent player. Not sure where the hockey iq critique is coming from.

If you're referring to the last few posts, that's directed towards Byfield, not Rossi.