C Kirby Dach (2019, 3rd, CHI)

[Andy Lehoux]

Just made a quick scouting report on Kirby Dach if anyone is interested. I would love to hear your thoughts !

 

[Lays]

This kid is so dominant and has 1C written all over him. He’s pushing Kakko for the 2 spot for me. My only issue with him is his effort

 

[landy92mack29]

Dach keeps getting better and was down right dominant tonight. Scored a goal early and added 3 helpers which has him up to 39 points in only 23 games and 4th in league scoring atm. The media ignores western Canada but I wouldn't be overly surprised if Kirby enters the convo with Kakko and Hughes

 

[Josepho]

Dach keeps getting better and was down right dominant tonight. Scored a goal early and added 3 helpers which has him up to 39 points in only 23 games and 4th in league scoring atm. The media ignores western Canada but I wouldn't be overly surprised if Kirby enters the convo with Kakko and Hughes

It's not even close between him and Cozens.

 

[Breakers]

500 face-offs in 23 games
essentially 22 faceoffs a night. I read he took 32 the other week.

Jeez big responsibility for the kid.

 

[Nabrules]

With Turcotte injured, and Cozens stats less impressive he sure seems like the 3rd best prospects right now. Totally agree he can go even higher than 3rd, I mean who wouldn’t want a 6’4 point producing C

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Dach keeps getting better and was down right dominant tonight. Scored a goal early and added 3 helpers which has him up to 39 points in only 23 games and 4th in league scoring atm. The media ignores western Canada but I wouldn't be overly surprised if Kirby enters the convo with Kakko and Hughes

100% this.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I might be in minority with this (big time), but for me, even at the moment Dach is already ahead of Hughes
My opinion, i know, but how much Dach and Kakko, both have progressed, developed this season compared to last season, a-mazing!!!.

1) Kakko 2)Dach 3)Hughes

 

[Stive Morgan]

Dach keeps getting better and was down right dominant tonight. Scored a goal early and added 3 helpers which has him up to 39 points in only 23 games and 4th in league scoring atm. The media ignores western Canada but I wouldn't be overly surprised if Kirby enters the convo with Kakko and Hughes

He already has in my mind.

 

[Dodospice]

I might be in minority with this (big time), but for me, even at the moment Dach is already ahead of Hughes
My opinion, i know, but how much Dach and Kakko, both have progressed, developed this season compared to last season, a-mazing!!!.

1) Kakko 2)Dach 3)Hughes

You are in the minority. I expect this ends up like every other draft that the media (or some outside source) tries to hype someone other than the clear #1 guy as the best player. Tavares vs Hedman/Duchene, McDavid vs Eichel, Dahlin vs Svechnikov, etc, etc. It’s clear that Hughes is #1 and likely stays there. You can be ecstatic about the how the other guys progressed but that doesn’t mean the #1 guy isn’t still at #1.

 

[13 others]

You are in the minority. I expect this ends up like every other draft that the media (or some outside source) tries to hype someone other than the clear #1 guy as the best player. Tavares vs Hedman/Duchene, McDavid vs Eichel, Dahlin vs Svechnikov, etc, etc. It’s clear that Hughes is #1 and likely stays there. You can be ecstatic about the how the other guys progressed but that doesn’t mean the #1 guy isn’t still at #1.

It's not like Hughes is a Tavares/McDavid/Dahlin type prospect, though.

 

[JoemAvs]

I might be in minority with this (big time), but for me, even at the moment Dach is already ahead of Hughes
My opinion, i know, but how much Dach and Kakko, both have progressed, developed this season compared to last season, a-mazing!!!.

1) Kakko 2)Dach 3)Hughes

Well I think you are in the minority on that. Tbh I personally don't get the Kakko love. Not because he isn't a great prospect. He is. But still from the looks of it he is more of a winger than a center. And he hasn't quite been able to continue on the dominant path he started off the season.

IMO its not Hughes that should slide down the rankings in favor of Dach. Its Kakko.

Right now I easily want Dach over Kakko without hesitation at all.

So yeah.

For me it is 1) Hughes 2) Dach 3) Kakko

And I might even pick some of the other potential #1 Cs over Kakko simply due to positional value.

Dach is the guy I really want for the Avs.

Too bad that Ottawa seems to channel the earlier decade Avs and overachieve their roster by quite a bit and bump their pick way out of Dach range .

 

[Dodospice]

It's not like Hughes is a Tavares/McDavid/Dahlin type prospect, though.

He may not be on their level but he’s just a notch below. Every season where there’s a clear cut #1 (like this draft) at some point, people in the media start hyping other guys as potentially going #1.

 

[ponder]

He’s a great prospect. His hands, smarts and agility are all pretty special for his size, he’s definitely a top notch offensive talent. Love that he’s using his shot more too. Skating looks pretty decent for a tall guy too.

Don’t like his defensive effort though, too many lazy backchecks and too much floating in his own end for a centre. I’ll give him somewhat of a pass here though, he’s putting all his energy into offence, so not surprising that he coasts a lot defensively. That’ll have to change at the next level.

Overall, definitely one of the top prospects for 2019 - I like him at 3rd after Hughes and Kakko. I think the Scheifele comparison is pretty good, and he reminds me a fair bit of Spezza too.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Well I think you are in the minority on that. Tbh I personally don't get the Kakko love. Not because he isn't a great prospect. He is. But still from the looks of it he is more of a winger than a center. And he hasn't quite been able to continue on the dominant path he started off the season.

IMO its not Hughes that should slide down the rankings in favor of Dach. Its Kakko.

Right now I easily want Dach over Kakko without hesitation at all.

So yeah.

For me it is 1) Hughes 2) Dach 3) Kakko

And I might even pick some of the other potential #1 Cs over Kakko simply due to positional value.

Dach is the guy I really want for the Avs.

Too bad that Ottawa seems to channel the earlier decade Avs and overachieve their roster by quite a bit and bump their pick way out of Dach range .

I like your opinion. For me thou, Hughes isn't gonna be even in the top 3 when the draft day finally is nigh, <my opinion>.
There are couple 2019 guys in the QMJHL who are having hell of a seasons, who too have, in my opinion, chance
for passing Hughes. - also, can't forget Hughes team mate Caulfield and maybe 1 more OHL and WHL player

I was so hyped about Jack Hughes last season and during the summer and before the season begun but all of his highlights that ive seen
(posted to hfboards and to youtube) from this season, its like his development has stalled, stopped even.
Its just same old same old schtich with zero progress, where as likes of Dach&Kakko...they look and play like complete different players.
I see Kakko as Rantanen 2.0 and Dach as Jumbo Joe 2.0.

BTW. Kakko IS a winger, not a center (sometimes due to injuries, he has been forced to play center)
but he will never going to play a center role though, his natural position is RW.

Like i previously posted: 1) Kakko 2) Dach 3) Hughes (at the moment)

Interesting to see how it all pans out.

 

[JoemAvs]

I like your opinion. For me thou, Hughes isn't gonna be even in the top 3 when the draft day finally is nigh, <my opinion>.
There are couple 2019 guys in the QMJHL who are having hell of a seasons, who too have, in my opinion, chance
for passing Hughes. - also, can't forget Hughes team mate Caulfield and maybe 1 more OHL and WHL player

I was so hyped about Jack Hughes last season and during the summer and before the season begun but all of his highlights that ive seen
(posted to hfboards and to youtube) from this season, its like his development has stalled, stopped even.
Its just same old same old schtich with zero progress, where as likes of Dach&Kakko...they look and play like complete different players.
I see Kakko as Rantanen 2.0 and Dach as Jumbo Joe 2.0.

BTW. Kakko IS a winger, not a center (sometimes due to injuries, he has been forced to play center)
but he will never going to play a center role though, his natural position is RW.

Like i previously posted: 1) Kakko 2) Dach 3) Hughes (at the moment)

Interesting to see how it all pans out.

I completely understand that reasoning. Thats why I believe passing on Hughes would be incredibly foolish. Even for a team like the Avs where Dachs game would be a way, way better fit than Hughes.
The shiny new thing usually gets overrated while everyone is picking apart last years shiny new thing. Even though last years shiny new thing is still better and more talented than this years shiny new thing. He is just not setting the world on fire like everyone expected (which was probably unrealistic to begin with and mostly due to an insane amount of hype) after what they did when they were the incredible shiny new thing.

Scouts (and fans) make these mistakes too many times and often it really hurts them down the line.

Again I would love for the Avs to land Dach. But if they somehow win the lottery and Hughes falls into their lap, they will have to take him.

I don't quite understand why Kakko is loved by so many. He IMO is not leaps and bounds ahead of Hughes and Dach talentwise (rather the opposite IMO atleast when it comes to Hughes) and picking a winger over franchise centers seems like a "bold" strategy to say the least.

Even if he turns into Rantanen 2.0, there is no way you pick that over a franchise center like Thornton 2.0 for the next decade. Also while Rants was a great prospect, he only got picked 10th (in maybe the best draft class of all time but still) for a reason. His post draft improvement has been gigantic. Not sure I would bank on anyone else replicating that in the near future.

 

[Hfbsux]

I might be in minority with this (big time), but for me, even at the moment Dach is already ahead of Hughes
My opinion, i know, but how much Dach and Kakko, both have progressed, developed this season compared to last season, a-mazing!!!.

1) Kakko 2)Dach 3)Hughes

This is funny, I posted this exact same order in a habs game thread and it didn't go well

 

[780il]

He is dominant. If the Oil keep shitting the bed I want this guy in the draft. Hometown kid, big, puts up points like crazy, right shot, good 2 way game, can play wing or center, exactly what we need.

 

[tfu92]

I honestly believe unless kakko puts up absolutely monstrous numbers, dach will be picked before him. Nhl GMs dont ever pass on a 1.5ppg 6'4 210lb skilled center who can so do everything, especially at the top of the draft. These centers are absolutely the rarest commodity in the NHL, where you can only get them at the top end of a draft. Lets look at history:

2016 PLD goes before pulju even though pulju was consensus #3 + finnish GM passes on him for the center.

2018 analytics king arizona GM chayka picks hayton with his 1.0ppg center over #3 consensus zadina the winger. Lets not even bring up MTL with the kotka pick over zadina.

Right now i have 1. Hughes 2. Dach 3. Kakko
If hughes stays at 2.0ppg while dach puts up 100 pts in the WHL, i think dach can challenge hughes. Kakko needs to put up like .85-0.9ppg to challenge for #1.

 

[newfy]

Hes on pace for over 120 points as a 6'4 draft eligible center. There will be some teams drooling about getting this kid if he keeps it up

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I honestly believe unless kakko puts up absolutely monstrous numbers, dach will be picked before him. Nhl GMs dont ever pass on a 1.5ppg 6'4 210lb skilled center who can so do everything, especially at the top of the draft. These centers are absolutely the rarest commodity in the NHL, where you can only get them at the top end of a draft. Lets look at history:

2016 PLD goes before pulju even though pulju was consensus #3 + finnish GM passes on him for the center.

2018 analytics king arizona GM chayka picks hayton with his 1.0ppg center over #3 consensus zadina the winger. Lets not even bring up MTL with the kotka pick over zadina.

Right now i have 1. Hughes 2. Dach 3. Kakko
If hughes stays at 2.0ppg while dach puts up 100 pts in the WHL, i think dach can challenge hughes. Kakko needs to put up like .85-0.9ppg to challenge for #1.

For Kakko its not his points, its mostly how he plays against grown men, at times he completely dominates the ice.
I think Dach is frigging awesome, but Pro Hockey > > > Major Junior Hockey.

Its not that easy to score points in the Sm-Liiga you know.

Kotka scored 29 points in 59 games last season as a 17 year old (playing mostly at wing)
now as 18 year old in the NHL, he is almost 0.60 ppg in 21 games.
Its not always about the points, its how you play.

 

[LoveHateLeafs]

For Kakko its not his points, its mostly how he plays against grown men, at times he completely dominates the ice.
I think Dach is frigging awesome, but Pro Hockey > > > Major Junior Hockey.

Its not that easy to score points in the Sm-Liiga you know.

Yeah, but neither is scoring 1.7 points per game in the WHL as a 17-year-old, which is what Dach is doing right now. In fact, it's so hard that in the 21st century, no one has does it over the course of an entire season. The closest has been Nic Petan, who achieved 1.69 points/game in his draft season. Keep in mind that when Petan did that, he was on an absolutely dominant Portland Winterhawks team(Memorial Cup finalists) that contained an astonishing 13 past or future NHL draftees, including two top 10 picks.

Dach's Saskatoon Blades roster contains just two players that have been drafted by the NHL, both in the 7th round. After Dach, the next-highest scoring players are both at about a point-per-game.

Look at what Laine and Barkov(the only other two comparable Finnish forwards to be picked 2nd overall in recent years) had to achieve to get that spot. Each was in a similar situation, going up against a centre who had been hyped for years to go first overall in his draft.

Barkov had to:

1. Have the most dominant season by a sixteen-year-old in the history of the Liiga
2. Be in the top ten goal scorers in the Liiga during his draft year, even though he's not known as a goal scorer
3. Be the only Finnish player in the last decade(at least) to achieve number 2
4. Be an incredible two-way player
5. Achieve all of the above while barely meeting the age requirements for his draft
   
6. Be a centre

Laine had to:

1. Lead the Liiga playoffs in goals
2. Be named Liiga playoff MVP
3. Lead the World Juniors in goals
4. Tie for the lead in World Championship goal-scoring with an established NHL player 9 years his senior
5. Be named World Championship MVP
6. Have the third-best points/game as a 17-year-old in the history of the Liiga, behind only Barkov and Granlund
7. Do all of the above after having spent the previous season dealing with a difficult injury, making significant changes to his game so he could compete with men, and maturing a ton as a person after having two major run-ins with the Finnish national junior program.

That kind of resume got them both 2nd overall after centres who received the kind of hype Jack Hughes is getting. Kakko is a fantastic player, but I don't think he'll have a resume like the above by next June. There's no shame in that.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I would pick Dach #1 and not give a f*** about it.

 

[jj cale]

I would pick Dach #1 and not give a **** about it.

Given how dynamic offensively Hughes is it would be a gamble to take Dach number 1 but you would have to think he is challenging Kakko at this point for sure.

Big skilled centres like Dach are tough to pass on.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Given how dynamic offensively Hughes is it would be a gamble to take Dach number 1 but you would have to think he is challenging Kakko at this point for sure.

Big skilled centres like Dach are tough to pass on.

Definitely a gamble because Hughes is very dynamic but Dach really does have it all and he's in that 6'4 body.. it's a unique package to have down the middle.