C Joseph Veleno (2018, 30th, DET) II

[TwoPiece]

Zadina being the BPA @ #3 and being more NHL-ready isn't a "hot take". It's just general knowledge.

Claiming that Kotkaniemi shouldn't be compared to Zadina, because he's younger (despite being from the same exact draft class), is certainly a "hot take".

It's unrelated to this thread and player, though, so keep your not-thought-out thoughts to yourself plz.

 

[le_sean]

Zadina being the BPA @ #3 and being more NHL-ready isn't a "hot take". It's just general knowledge.

Claiming that Kotkaniemi shouldn't be compared to Zadina, because he's younger (despite being from the same exact draft class), is certainly a "hot take".

It's unrelated to this thread and player, though, so keep your not-thought-out thoughts to yourself plz.

I’ve seen Veleno play much more than you. I’m not diverting from my opinion of him.

 

[TwoPiece]

I’ve seen Veleno play much more than you. I’m not diverting from my opinion of him.

Oh? Please tell me exactly how much more you've seen of him than I have. I'm interested to know how you know this, considering that you literally don't know this.

 

[schnapshot]

Zadina being the BPA @ #3 and being more NHL-ready isn't a "hot take". It's just general knowledge.

So I’m guessing the 3 teams that didn’t draft him went with actual scouting instead of “general knowledge” eh?

Claiming that Kotkaniemi shouldn't be compared to Zadina, because he's younger (despite being from the same exact draft class), is certainly a "hot take".

To claim that a prospect 9 months younger should be evaluated differently is not a hot take, it’s simply common sense. Zadina is as close to the 2017 draft as Kotkaniemi is to the 2019 draft.

 

[le_sean]

Oh? Please tell me exactly how much more you've seen of him than I have. I'm interested to know how you know this, considering that you literally don't know this.

Because when your claim to being a good talent evaluator is because you’re a Red Wings fan, it’s pretty clear you only watch highlights.

 

[Ezekial]

Because when your claim to being a good talent evaluator is because you’re a Red Wings fan, it’s pretty clear you only watch highlights.

Using highlights is still better than making shit posts out of spite, bud.

 

[TwoPiece]

So I’m guessing the 3 teams that didn’t draft him went with actual scouting instead of “general knowledge” eh?

To claim that a prospect 9 months younger should be evaluated differently is not a hot take, it’s simply common sense. Zadina is as close to the 2017 draft as Kotkaniemi is to the 2019 draft.

I'm sure you've heard and read this before... "Drafted by need rather than BPA." It's blatantly obvious that's what both Montreal and Arizona did. I personally think that Ottawa drafted "character" over "talent".

Zadina and Kotkaniemi were both drafted in 2018 and are both eligible to begin in the NHL as early as the 2018-19 season. They have literally nothing to do with either last year's draft or next summer's draft. This is a very dumb way of making excuses for Kotkaniemi being a less-ready prospect.

 

[TwoPiece]

Because when your claim to being a good talent evaluator is because you’re a Red Wings fan, it’s pretty clear you only watch highlights.

Nice try, but this was never explicitly said. You're taking toneless text way too seriously on the internet. Try inferring different, if you're capable.

Your poor judgment of prospects is now public knowledge in this thread. What's the old wise lesson? "Better to say nothing and provide doubt, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"?

 

[Ezekial]

I'd say Ottawa made a "stylistic" pick rather than a character pick. But whatever you guys need to grow up, I haven't looked at the Kotkaniemi thread because I don't care about him or Montreal. I get it's August and we don't get to watch these players but Christ, get over yourselves. Our teams both suck, we generally don't like our management, and we finally are acquiring top tier talent, how about you guys quit bickering about speculation and bias when there's nothing to watch and all of us are bias.

 

[le_sean]

Nice try, but this was never explicitly said. You're taking toneless text way too seriously on the internet. Try inferring different, if you're capable.

July 25th:

No need for hyperbole here. I never said in any fashion that I can predict the future. What I did say, and imply, is that well-educated Red Wings fans have the capacity to better judge prospects based on the amount of great players that have skated for the team. Seeing as they typically watch their team more than most others, they have seen more great players on a consistent basis than most other fans can/do.

Nice try denying it though. Your bullshit opinion on the superiority of Red Wings fans is out for everyone to see.

 

[Hfbsux]

Using highlights is still better than making **** posts out of spite, bud.

When I was a kid, I thought Zach Hamill was gonna be a star because his highlights were unreal. I think it's literally the worst thing to do when trying to evaluate a prospect. That, and stat watching only.

 

[TwoPiece]

July 25th:

Nice try denying it though.

Nice removal of context by excluding the other 20-or so posts, which includes the explicit point of people like you taking it too seriously. Again, try inferring correctly using the contexts of the entire discussion.

I made it a point to say that I don't evaluate talent as being a Red Wings fan because it's completely irrelevant. That doesn't fit your agenda, though, so you've purposefully excluded any additional information.

This doesn't provide you any excuses for your poor lack of prospect judgement.

 

[Ezekial]

When I was a kid, I thought Zach Hamill was gonna be a star because his highlights were unreal. I think it's literally the worst thing to do when trying to evaluate a prospect. That, and stat watching only.

Yea it's much better to make posts about prospects you've never watched. Got it.

Context.

 

[Hfbsux]

Nice try, but this was never explicitly said. You're taking toneless text way too seriously on the internet. Try inferring different, if you're capable.

I'll do it, since you were responding to me on this one:

↑

Impossible to say who is a top 5 pick a month after the draft. I would not put a lot of emphasis on a Detroit's fan opinion on Kotkaniemi...
​

Why, exactly? Because I'm not a Montreal fan who will jerk off every prospect that they draft? I'm more of a fan of hockey than Detroit. They just happen to be my favorite organization in the NHL. I've seen tons and tons of players and prospects, and if anything, well-educated Detroit fans will have better amateur scouts than most other teams based on the amount of great players who have skated for the team throughout the last 30 years.
TwoPiece, Jul 25, 2018

You're welcome!

 

[Hfbsux]

Yea it's much better to make posts about prospects you've never watched. Got it.

Context.

Better yet, don't pretend you know "x" prospect because you watch a highligh of his AND don't comment on prospect you haven't watch. Not saying you did, because quite frankly, I wasn't following that conversation.

 

[Ezekial]

My post doesn't make sense when you edit out the part of the quote....

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Knock off all the crap.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have a hard time understanding this criticism, because every time I've seen Veleno he's played a fairly intelligent game. He loves to curl back and read the play and find an open teammate. He's a high vision playmaker, and that's basically where all of his offense comes from.

When I think of a guy who doesn't have the sense, I think of a guy with physical tools and a great shot who can blindly drive a lane and finish when the puck is on his stick, but can't read a play to save his life. Those guys have to walk back their offensive games because they can't adapt.

But if anything, I think Veleno is actually the opposite of those guys. He's too busy reading the play to do something so basic and nonreactive. Like if he could start to drive the net to create havoc or just shoot to see if there could be a rebound, it would do him a ton of good. It would give him another element. I think he's got to let go of the desire to pick apart the defense and start playing percentages more.

Fascinating, because I see a kid that is very slow to make decisions with the puck and frequently drifts to the perimeter with the puck without much direction. He needs a play to really develop and mature before he knows what to do with the puck (which is why I don't think he has elite vision). Call it fast skater-slow player. If he wasn't such a good athlete and skater I would have more concern. Him holding onto the puck in the offensive zone leads to an inordinate amount of plays that seem to go nowhere. He actually strikes me as someone who will be relatively easy to defend in the pro game as he doesn't seem to have much of an understanding of where his teammates are at. This makes his play very hurky jerky in a lot of ways. In the pro game he will impact the game with his motor, skating and athleticism. Those skills go much further than people want to admit. Again, I have no knocks on him at 30 and think he will be a good, honest, responsible third liner. Just because Detroit needs high-end centers, however, doesn't mean that Veleno actually projects as such.

 

[Thebesthockey]

Fascinating, because I see a kid that is very slow to make decisions with the puck and frequently drifts to the perimeter with the puck without much direction. He needs a play to really develop and mature before he knows what to do with the puck (which is why I don't think he has elite vision). Call it fast skater-slow player. If he wasn't such a good athlete and skater I would have more concern. Him holding onto the puck in the offensive zone leads to an inordinate amount of plays that seem to go nowhere. He actually strikes me as someone who will be relatively easy to defend in the pro game as he doesn't seem to have much of an understanding of where his teammates are at. This makes his play very hurky jerky in a lot of ways. In the pro game he will impact the game with his motor, skating and athleticism. Those skills go much further than people want to admit. Again, I have no knocks on him at 30 and think he will be a good, honest, responsible third liner. Just because Detroit needs high-end centers, however, doesn't mean that Veleno actually projects as such.

have you ever seen him live

holy shit show observance

 

[newfy]

WHat I like about Veleno is that hes always been the best player on his team. He was the best on a bad St Johns team, where his offense wasnt great (for what was expected of an exceptional player) but could have still seen him go in the first round.But when he was traded he was absolutely dominant offensively. I'm surprised his production after the trade didnt see him go higher.

He might not be a high end 1C prospect but who is at 30. I think compared to the other centers in the draft the value of Veleno at 30 is pretty high and now the wings just need to hope that offense to end the year wasnt a fluke. I think hes a pretty safe pick, but when you've already landed Zadina, and have 2 more picks in the next 6ish picks, its OK to take a safe player who youve scouted plenty and think can contribute at the next level. I dont love him as a prospect but the offense he brought to end the year has me intrigued for what he'll do next season

The wings almost traded up for him when he was still available around 20, so they thought pretty highly of him

 

[HisNoodliness]

He will have a more effective NHL career than wahlstrom , hayton and farabee

Personally I had Veleno higher than Farabee and Hayton entering the draft but they were close. He could be the best of the three, but I don't think you can say Veleno is a much better prospect than either.

I think Wahlstrom is a very clear step above them all at this point (sorry Arizona fans, I'm just not a Hayton fan, I hope he works out for you though). Wahlstrom just has an absolutely amazing shot, and is better at everything else than many seem to give him credit for. He's got a good chance at being the best goal scorer from this draft.

Concerning Veleno, I am really really happy we got him at 30. I thought that Kotkaniemi, Veleno and Hayton were clearly the draft's three best centers without much seperation between them. Getting one of them at 30 when the other 2 were top 5 picks is pretty amazing.

 

[goonybird]

WHat I like about Veleno is that hes always been the best player on his team. He was the best on a bad St Johns team, where his offense wasnt great (for what was expected of an exceptional player) but could have still seen him go in the first round.But when he was traded he was absolutely dominant offensively. I'm surprised his production after the trade didnt see him go higher.

He might not be a high end 1C prospect but who is at 30. I think compared to the other centers in the draft the value of Veleno at 30 is pretty high and now the wings just need to hope that offense to end the year wasnt a fluke. I think hes a pretty safe pick, but when you've already landed Zadina, and have 2 more picks in the next 6ish picks, its OK to take a safe player who youve scouted plenty and think can contribute at the next level. I dont love him as a prospect but the offense he brought to end the year has me intrigued for what he'll do next season

The wings almost traded up for him when he was still available around 20, so they thought pretty highly of him

Mathieu Joseph was probably the best Saint John_ player earlier in his career. He's definitely the better player of late though.

 

[newfy]

Mathieu Joseph was probably the best Saint John_ player earlier in his career. He's definitely the better player of late though.

I should've been more clear. I meant best on his team in his draft year, Joseph was definitely better the year befor ehis draft year. I meant Velenos draft year numbers werent amazing in St Johns (they were ok though) but they were still the best on the Sea Dogs. Then he went to one of the top offenses in the entire Q and was by far their most productive player in his draft year.

Sorry for the confusion

 

[ricky0034]

I feel like people have this outdated conception of the Q as this super high scoring league that leads to weird stuff like harping on Veleno's numbers more than guys like Hayton and Dellandrea even though they went much higher and didn't even break PPG

how many people on this forum know that it was the lowest scoring junior league last year?

 

[Thebesthockey]

I feel like people have this outdated conception of the Q as this super high scoring league that leads to weird stuff like harping on Veleno's numbers more than guys like Hayton and Dellandrea even though they went much higher and didn't even break PPG

how many people on this forum know that it was the lowest scoring junior league last year?

and memorial cup winner again LOL

I used to be the hardest on the Q league

in past 2-3 years picked up a ton in speed and skill

I will put it up there now with OHL infront of whl as NHL is transitioning to more speed and skill