C Joseph Veleno (2018, 30th, DET) II

TwoPiece

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Jul 24, 2018
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I still can't believe he fell into Detroit's lap. I had him ranked 11th, above both Kotkaniemi, and Hayton. He could be the best center of this draft when all is said and done.

I think it's a no-brainer that he remains in the Q this upcoming season, to hopefully dominate at the same (or better) pace he did during the last-half of 2017-18 with Drummondville. He has a chip on his shoulder, like Zadina, and I'd like to see it inspire another spike in development.

His ceiling is probably Nicklas Backstrom, sans 30 goals/100 points. His floor is something of a Valtteri Filppula/Lars Eller. IMO he's the 3rd "smartest" player of the 2018 draft and, similar to the Rasmussen pick, a sure-fire NHL player in some capacity.

I expect to see him start 2019-2020 in Grand Rapids, and that should give fans and scouts a good idea of exactly the type of player he's developing into. I don't think his game translates well to the wing, so he's going to be a 2nd/3rd/4th line center.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
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I guess you didn’t really watch him play if you thought he was better than Kotkaniemi and Hayton. No chance he’s the best centre of the draft. No shot, mediocre offensive awareness.
I 've seen only highlights of him ,he has some tools , skating is amassing. I think he just need get more confidence. I can see him something between Larkin and Filppula
 
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TwoPiece

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Jul 24, 2018
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I guess you didn’t really watch him play if you thought he was better than Kotkaniemi and Hayton. No chance he’s the best centre of the draft. No shot, mediocre offensive awareness.
Lmfao. "No chance" is literally wrong. Every center in the 2018 draft has an opportunity to be the best. Veleno has a better chance than most. Hayton was a reach and Kotkaniemi hasn't played in North America yet (or center for an entire season). Do you think before you post garbage like this?
 

le_sean

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Oct 21, 2006
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Lmfao. "No chance" is literally wrong. Every center in the 2018 draft has an opportunity to be the best. Veleno has a better chance than most. Hayton was a reach and Kotkaniemi hasn't played in North America yet (or center for an entire season). Do you think before you post garbage like this?

You’re really one to talk as you just kept spewing garbage in the Kotkaniemi thread.

Do you think it’s some strange coincidence that Veleno, as a player with exceptional status, had more exposure than all of the players in his age group and yet 7 centres were taken ahead of him? He’s not that good, I’ve seen him more than enough and clearly NHL scouts feel the same way.
 

TwoPiece

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Jul 24, 2018
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You’re really one to talk as you just kept spewing garbage in the Kotkaniemi thread.

Do you think it’s some strange coincidence that Veleno, as a player with exceptional status, had more exposure than all of the players in his age group and yet 7 centres were taken ahead of him? He’s not that good, I’ve seen him more than enough and clearly NHL scouts feel the same way.
Not coincidence. Poor scouting/selection.

He's very good and very smart. I'm glad that a great organization will have the opportunity to prove you, and other doubters, very wrong.
 

schnapshot

Mendoza baby
Jan 8, 2015
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Not coincidence. Poor scouting/selection.

He's very good and very smart. I'm glad that a great organization will have the opportunity to prove you, and other doubters, very wrong.
Of course, poor scouting by 30 teams in the first round :laugh:

I don’t hate Veleno but I think he tops out as a 2C, ideally becomes a good two-way 3C.

If you’d watch him play instead of stat-watching his Drummondville stint you’d think the same.
 
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TwoPiece

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Jul 24, 2018
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Of course, poor scouting by 30 teams in the first round :laugh:

I don’t hate Veleno but I think he tops out as a 2C, ideally becomes a good two-way 3C.

If you’d watch him play instead of stat-watching his Drummondville stint you’d think the same.
I ranked him based on my full-game scouting of him. I don't "stat-watch", as you'd like to suggest.

Most people that I know had him in the 10-15 range. It's not an uncommon opinion that he "should" have been drafted higher.
 

schnapshot

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Jan 8, 2015
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I ranked him based on my full-game scouting of him. I don't "stat-watch", as you'd like to suggest.

Most people that I know had him in the 10-15 range. It's not an uncommon opinion that he "should" have been drafted higher.
It doesn’t really matter what the « not uncommon opinion » is when he actually went much lower does it? It’s just pretty telling of his upside in the eyes of professional scouts, not that’s he’s a bad prospect.

I see you coming back to me with the « scouts were wrong before » argument.

I actually believe JoVel will make the NHL but as a very good 3C. Just not enough of a scorer/offensive threat to be a top 6 C. Kotkaniemi is much better or as good in every category except skating.
 
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TwoPiece

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Jul 24, 2018
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It doesn’t really matter what the « not uncommon opinion » is when he actually went much lower does it? It’s just pretty telling of his upside in the eyes of professional scouts, not that’s he’s a bad prospect.

I see you coming back to me with the « scouts were wrong before » argument.

I actually believe JoVel will make the NHL but as a very good 3C. Just not enough of a scorer/offensive threat to be a top 6 C. Kotkaniemi is much better or as good in every category except skating.
It does matter to a lot of people. Just as an example; prospect ratings on this site. Some people rank players based on numbers, and others use their pre-draft ranking when they discuss "why X player is 20th on my list when drafted 45th overall".

You're insinuating that being drafted 30th was "not" a mistake by multiple teams, and I disagree. I think, based on my individual scouting of Joe Veleno through 2017-18 (and all other draftees), he'll be one of the Top-15 players drafted this season. Edit: Sorry, could be. I'm not sold that he'll reach his maximum potential, but I think that his maximum potential exceeds all but about 15 kids selected in this draft.

We won't know who's wrong until about 7 years down the road, if not longer. You can't, legitimately, just bash my opinion based on his current overall selection.
 

schnapshot

Mendoza baby
Jan 8, 2015
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It does matter to a lot of people. Just as an example; prospect ratings on this site. Some people rank players based on numbers, and others use their pre-draft ranking when they discuss "why X player is 20th on my list when drafted 45th overall".

You're insinuating that being drafted 30th was "not" a mistake by multiple teams, and I disagree. I think, based on my individual scouting of Joe Veleno through 2017-18 (and all other draftees), he'll be one of the Top-15 players drafted this season. Edit: Sorry, could be. I'm not sold that he'll reach his maximum potential, but I think that his maximum potential exceeds all but about 15 kids selected in this draft.

We won't know who's wrong until about 7 years down the road, if not longer. You can't, legitimately, just bash my opinion based on his current overall selection.
I’m not bashing your opinion, just strongly disagreeing with it.

Especially that you have a slight history of pumping the tires of Wings prospects (Rasmussen, Zadina, now Veleno). Hard to take a fan that can’t be neutral with much seriousness. Like, you really haven’t watched Kotkaniemi if you think JoVel has more potential than him. It’s a matter of tools.
 

TwoPiece

Registered User
Jul 24, 2018
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I’m not bashing your opinion, just strongly disagreeing with it.

Especially that you have a slight history of pumping the tires of Wings prospects (Rasmussen, Zadina, now Veleno). Hard to take a fan that can’t be neutral with much seriousness. Like, you really haven’t watched Kotkaniemi if you think JoVel has more potential than him. It’s a matter of tools.
Well, I didn't register for the forum until recently, otherwise my pre-draft opinions would be seen as consistent with my post-draft opinions. I didn't have Rasmussen ranked in the Top-10 of 2017 pre-draft. I had Zadina @ #3 and Veleno @ #11 pre-draft 2018. My opinions don't consider that Detroit is my favorite NHL team.

We just agree to disagree. There's probably some bias of watching Veleno for more than 1 year, and I haven't seen as much of Kotkaniemi, but I don't prefer 1 or the other based on who selects them in the entry drafts.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I had him ranked as a mid-first rounder, but I know Mark Edwards said some NHL scouts had a 2nd round grade on him. He is someone people are clearly divided on. I like a lot of what he does, but share the concern with his lack of scoring.

You don't think that he has that kind of vision or play style?

No. Backstrom has been a top playmaker in the league his whole career.
 

TwoPiece

Registered User
Jul 24, 2018
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I had him ranked as a mid-first rounder, but I know Mark Edwards said some NHL scouts had a 2nd round grade on him. He is someone people are clearly divided on. I like a lot of what he does, but share the concern with his lack of scoring.

No. Backstrom has been a top playmaker in the league his whole career.
Well, agree or disagree, I think that he has that top-playmaking vision.

If Veleno plays with guys like Mantha, Rasmussen, and Zadina, he could put up numbers close to Backstrom's. Likely not as high, because y'know, Ovechkin plays a part of Backstrom's numbers. His maximum potential though, is an elite playmaker. I don't think he'll ever be great or elite because of his shot, that's for sure. And I also don't guarantee that he'll reach his maximum potential, but that what I can see him being at his best.
 

HOPE

Goal Caufield!
Jun 30, 2011
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Well, agree or disagree, I think that he has that top-playmaking vision.

If Veleno plays with guys like Mantha, Rasmussen, and Zadina, he could put up numbers close to Backstrom's. Likely not as high, because y'know, Ovechkin plays a part of Backstrom's numbers. His maximum potential though, is an elite playmaker. I don't think he'll ever be great or elite because of his shot, that's for sure. And I also don't guarantee that he'll reach his maximum potential, but that what I can see him being at his best.
Lol yeah lets straight up compare him to one of the best play maker of the league for a decade... Backstrom is not a product of ovechkin and ovechkin is my all time favorite player.
 

TwoPiece

Registered User
Jul 24, 2018
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Lol yeah lets straight up compare him to one of the best play maker of the league for a decade... Backstrom is not a product of ovechkin and ovechkin is my all time favorite player.
I never said that he's a product of Ovechkin, just that Veleno at his best can't put up those numbers, because Detroit doesn't (probably won't) have an Ovechkin-level sniper for him to pass to.

Why do people always have to blow everything out of proportion? Veleno has elite vision that could potentially lead to him being a great playmaker. Is there something wrong with that opinion? Go ahead and disagree, but don't create an argument out of nothing plz.
 

CowbellConray

Registered User
Sep 8, 2010
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I think Veleno has potential but when a player falls like he did they tend to not pan out.

But the middle six center projections are very fair
 

Tatar Shots

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Feb 2, 2014
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I think Veleno has potential but when a player falls like he did they tend to not pan out.

But the middle six center projections are very fair

That’s not true. He is in the same category as Barzal and Chycrun in terms of being highly hyped and scouted for years, only to fall on draft day. Not saying he will end up as good, but players do drop from being overscouted. The ‘complaint’ on Veleno on draft day was that he may only pan out as a 3C, while Hayton went 5th and Dellandrea 13th. Both of them could only end up 3Cs
 

Thebesthockey

Registered User
Aug 6, 2013
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I think its a steal at 30th overall

i think its more to do with; looking at the skills/ and player 2-3 yrs ago and looking now...has there been upward progession or has it been stagnant ?

scouting is all about current state vs future state

so maybe that played a factor

who knows
 
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Thrasymachus

Registered User
Jul 1, 2018
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That’s not true. He is in the same category as Barzal and Chycrun in terms of being highly hyped and scouted for years, only to fall on draft day. Not saying he will end up as good, but players do drop from being overscouted. The ‘complaint’ on Veleno on draft day was that he may only pan out as a 3C, while Hayton went 5th and Dellandrea 13th. Both of them could only end up 3Cs
And then there are the Kirill Kabanov's and Josh Ho-Sang's (granted Josh's ship has not completely sailed)
 

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