C Auston Matthews (2016, 1st, TOR) VI

[93LEAFS]

Stylistic comparison, stop forcing it dude. The Lemieux comparison (STYLISTICALLY) became popular through experts then adopted by fans.

You don't seem to have a problem with Matthews being compared to superstars stylistically (neither do i aside from the selke candidate + malkin in one package one)


edit: and yes obviously a couple of users overhyped him but it's tiring when people make it sound like we all did.

Very few here have compared Matthews to one, a top 5 player of all time, I've actually yet to see it. As I said, I agree with Benning's assessment. And very few experts used that comparrison, I think maybe 2 ex-players and McKeen's.

 

[Emerz]

"#1 PLD Fanboy"?

Let's see PLD's defense against competition other than the CHL before saying he's better defensively than Matthews.

Okay.

And FYI, just because someone is a fan of a prospect doesn't mean they can't objectively see things, I was touting Dubois as a top 3-4 pick while every major scouting agency had him ranked in the 9-15 range and I've also seen every home game of his in the past two years.

His positioning and play anticipating along with stick work reminds me exactly of Bergeron who I've also had the pleasure of watching grow with the Bruins, a great example of the subtle things Dubois does right is the top prospects game which he dominated all three zones of the ice in, since that is the highest level of competition he played against this year, it's at least not just a random QMJHL game.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

My bad. Forgive me for challenging the opinion-stated-as-fact that "Laine is better offensively than Matthews" by you and others. If my thorough, patient, and well reasoned response was too "hostile" for you, you're welcome to go elsewhere or ignore it.

When you and others resort to attacking the poster (by name-calling and putting words in people's mouths) instead of attacking the argument then it's clear you have nothing of substance to contribute. That's also against site rules but whatever.

Anyway, we're done here unless you want to talk in a more thoughtful and respectful manner than you have so far.

Hilarious. You dismiss the arguments of those who disagree with you as being "haters" and "idiotic" while viewing yourself as "well reasoned." I am happy to continue ignoring your opinions, though.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

It always makes me wonder what the scouts see as when I watch Matthews play I actually consider his defensive awareness his weakness. He also definitely is not a defense-first center like Kopitar, Bergeron and the like were. I actually don't understand this "defensive two-way player"-narrative at all. Defensive responsibilities are a part of being a center, performing your role doesn't mean you are a "defensive center". If you cannot defend as a center you are deficient.

As for when the last time a highly touted prospect displayed such defensive awareness was, I'd pick an actual defense-first center: Barkov.

I think you should leave the actual scouting and projecting to the actual scouts/experts. His offensive game is so outstanding that it overshadows the defensive aspects. Make no mistake about it, Matthews is a very heady player with the tools to be excellent defensively. Given you are the undisputed top Laine homer on this site I think any "opinion" you give on the subject should be accompanied with a massive asterisk attached.

 

[TDK67]

Hilarious. You dismiss the arguments of those who disagree with you as "idiotic" while viewing yourself as "well reasoned." I am happy to continue ignoring your opinions, though.

Laine > Matthews is an idiotic argument. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

EDIT: "Well reasoned" AKA not just writing two lines that say "But Laine outscored Matthews at the WJC & WHC!! Clearly, Laine > Matthews". If that's your argument for why Laine is better than Matthews then it is a stupid argument, plain and simple. It is exactly like saying "Laine > McDavid because he outscored McDavid at the WHC".

 

[Liminality]

It always makes me wonder what the scouts see as when I watch Matthews play I actually consider his defensive awareness his weakness. He also definitely is not a defense-first center like Kopitar, Bergeron and the like were. I actually don't understand this "defensive two-way player"-narrative at all. Defensive responsibilities are a part of being a center, performing your role doesn't mean you are a "defensive center". If you cannot defend as a center you are deficient.

As for when the last time a highly touted prospect displayed such defensive awareness was, I'd pick an actual defense-first center: Barkov. Although, I could just go with the cop out and pick Connor McDavid even if defensive play isn't his greatest strength.

It's not his strongest asset but had improved a lot under Crawford. To the point where it's notable and is brought up by scouts. Wouldn't consider it a weakness at all and I don't think most people would say it's a weakness of his.

Thought he did a pretty good job defensively and has lots of potential to continue to improve in that regard.

 

[theIceWookie]

Dubois is one, likely has Matthews beat in that specific area.

I seriously doubt that. I mean Matthews was pretty much being used in all situations by the end of the WHC, which kind of shows his skill in the defensive side of the game.

And you're talking about a player who has played only against teenagers, to one who has pro experience now

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Laine > Matthews is an idiotic argument. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

Except I've never said I thought Laine was a better player than Matthews. In fact, I've consistently said the exact opposite.

Of course, having read your posts, it's not surprising that me not believing that every single aspect of Matthews' game is superior to every single aspect of Laine's game would induce that type of response from you.

Very few here have compared Matthews to one, a top 5 player of all time, I've actually yet to see it. As I said, I agree with Benning's assessment. And very few experts used that comparrison, I think maybe 2 ex-players and McKeen's.

No, but there are fans who have described Matthews as a borderline generational player and as being closer to generational than elite - which seems excessive, wouldn't you think?

 

[93LEAFS]

Dubois is one, likely has Matthews beat in that specific area.

Its unclear at this point if Dubois is even a center. He's played a 1/3 of a year there in the Q. I don't think he's shown more in that regard yet.

 

[93LEAFS]

Except I've never said I thought Laine was a better player than Matthews. In fact, I've consistently said the exact opposite.

Of course, having read your posts, it's not surprising that me not believing that every single aspect of Matthews' game is superior to every single aspect of Laine's game would induce that type of response from you.



No, but there are fans who have described Matthews as a borderline generational player and as being closer to generational than elite - which seems excessive, wouldn't you think?

depends on what people mean by boarderline generational. I think he's a center prospect on par with Eichel, Stamkos and Tavares. The whole generational or boarderline generational gets ridiculous. He's not McDavid or Crosby, but he's in the discussion of being the best center outside of those two in the 2000's at the time of their draft.

 

[TDK67]

Except I've never said I thought Laine was a better player than Matthews. In fact, I've consistently said the exact opposite.

Except I never said you did or directly called your argument idiotic. For some reason you take offense to me calling out the Laine > Matthews argument from others. Go figure.

Of course, having read your posts, it's not surprising that me not believing that every single aspect of Matthews' game is superior to every single aspect of Laine's game would induce that type of response from you.

Of course, there you go putting words in my mouth again. Why do that unless you have nothing of value to say?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

depends on what people mean by boarderline generational. I think he's a center prospect on par with Eichel, Stamkos and Tavares. The whole generational or boarderline generational gets ridiculous. He's not McDavid or Crosby, but he's in the discussion of being the best center outside of those two in the 2000's at the time of their draft.

Let's put it this way - suggesting that Matthews is bordering on a Crosby level prospect is about as legitimate as comparing Laine to Ovechkin.

 

[Purity*]

You realize they were playing in different leagues, right...and that one league is lower scoring than the other. The two times Matthews and Laine played at the same tournaments this past season, Laine out produced Matthews.

I'm surprised that the seven month age difference between the two isn't a big deal for you - i know in the past you've been extremely aggressive in insisting that even a difference of a couple of months is extremely significant.

So Puljujarvi > Laine then right? I mean, outscoring him at a tournament means everything.