C Alex Newhook - Boston College, NCAA (2019, 16th, COL) Part 2

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Continue here. Part1: C Alex Newhook - Victoria Grizzlies, BCHL (2019, 16th, COL)

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[Breakers]

I still wish the Pioneers got him.
Victoria was always had a strong relationship with DU dating back to Tyler Bozak and he was considering it.

He is having the freshman year people expected that U18 NTDP members to have.
Couldn't be more impressed with the year he is having. The shot generation, zone entries, and speed. Just seeing dman struggle with the gap control on him as he backs them right up.

Tomorrow night is the game you want to watch him in to really see how he performs in the tightest checking high stakes game.

 

[Perratrooper]

So for people who watched him, who does he compare to in the NHL? Obviously Barzal's name gets dropped being another recent 16 OA pick, but do they actually play similar games?

 

[FreeMcdavid]

So for people who watched him, who does he compare to in the NHL? Obviously Barzal's name gets dropped being another recent 16 OA pick, but do they actually play similar games?

I've seen him play quite a bit and I would compare his game to prime Mason Raymond.

Both excellent speed with the ability to pot it in the net, Mason probably had less vision than Newhook but their styles are very similar.

 

[Lemonlimey]

So for people who watched him, who does he compare to in the NHL? Obviously Barzal's name gets dropped being another recent 16 OA pick, but do they actually play similar games?

Scott Young?

 

[Breakers]

So for people who watched him, who does he compare to in the NHL? Obviously Barzal's name gets dropped being another recent 16 OA pick, but do they actually play similar games?

That comparable came from NHL CS handbook I believe. It mentioned it in one of the The Athletic articles
and the quote was something about
Newhook’s game is similar of Barzal. This is a stylistic comparison only. Nothing to do with talent.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So for people who watched him, who does he compare to in the NHL? Obviously Barzal's name gets dropped being another recent 16 OA pick, but do they actually play similar games?

Matt Duchene

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Post from @Pierce Hawthorne

To the first bolded, you're right. He's 2nd on his team one point back of first place, 22 year old senior Julius Mattila. Also, where did I say he would go above Turcotte? He's having a better freshman year but unless I misspoke in a post I certainly wouldn't be taking him above Turcotte in a redraft right now. I think Newhook has a good argument to go above a lot of the Dmen selected in front of him(Broberg, York, Soderstrom) and perhaps Podkolzin... Basically I think he's probably around a ~10th overall pick right now in a redraft. But Byram, Turcotte, Caufield, Boldy would still go above him.



As for the 2nd bolded. He literally started the year as a 3rd line LW with little special teams time. Now he's the 2nd line Center(Really his line is the 1st line though), with 2nd unit PP time and getting a healthy amount of PK time.


He's earned a major increase in role and responsibility because of his play. +/- is a heavily flawed stat but it still says something that he's by far the best forward on the team at a +26(Next closest being Hardman at +19).


Flat out he's just having a phenomenal rookie year. The best of the freshman class. Doesn't mean he'd go higher in than them in a redraft, just that he's having the best year. I had Caufield Top 5 in my rankings before the 2019 draft and actually had Newhook at like ~23rd. So he has definitely risen for me but only to about ~10th-12th.

In regards to his draft range, my response was to the person who said he's above Turcotte. For the most part, we agree about his draft range, so I don't know what in particular you were taking offense to. I wasn't criticizing the guy to say that these raw totals for all these players so far this season don't put him above top five picks. You agree about that.

He's increased his role slightly, but I think whether he had a great season or an average season it would've increased as the season went on, either way as he got more accustomed to the higher level of hockey. He was coming from by far the lowest level of hockey of the first round pick freshman in the NCAA. In fact, his role throughout has been most similar to Holloway, also coming from Tier 2 Junior in Canada.

Boston College might be good enough to win games without heralded prospects like Newhook and Boldy, but I think there's an expectation with these recruits that when they come in they are not coming in to compete for a role with every veteran on the roster at their position. The level simply isn't high enough to keep these guys in anything less than middle of the roster roles, and you aren't going to get many big recruits in the future if they aren't at least middle six/PP guys, if not higher in the lineup. I also don't think there's been any freshman whose walked into a #1F role on the team where they are playing over 20 minutes per game in all situations and PP1/PK1. Newhook's role isn't much different from the others.

As to whose been the best of the freshman so far, I'd slightly lean to Caufield over Newhook. I've been very impressed with his play, considering he's playing on a terrible team. I also don't think there's been any huge gap between the play of the freshmen to create tiers of separation that weren't already present at the draft. They've all had good stretches and bad stretches. There's also relevant context surrounding their play that often isn't considered when discussing whose been their seasons.

Post from @GirardSpinorama

Trying to act like Newhook and Boldy have nothing to do with BC's success is also ridiculous. BC was horrible last year, and now with Newhook/Boldy/Knight they are good is just a coincidence? Wisconsin was bad last year and still bad this year. Caufield/Turcotte should at least be able to make them competitive.

That being said, one season does not justify anyone's draft re-ranks that much. Lets see how they play in the NHL.

It is ridiculous. It's also not what I said.

Two freshman should not be able to make a team competitive by themselves, unless they are NHL super-star level players pretty immediately. None of these guys or anyone in this draft is capable of doing what Eichel did in carrying BU, and that team around him wasn't that bad. They had another few guys that are in the NHL, and one or two others who've gotten some games. They also had a coach who is now an NHL head coach. And besides, Turcotte has missed a significant amount of games, so then you are asking Caufield to do it all by himself. None of these guys could do that. Thats why it's important to understand context of the teams.

Post from @ibengals

Last 4 Boston College games:

6-2
3-2
10-1
6-1

I don't even know what you're arguing about right now. I get that you don't think Newhook is a top-5 prospect, and I don't really care, but you're just making stuff up right now.

There's no helping you if you watch a college hockey game and a junior hockey game, and don't see a big difference in the tactical work of the teams, the physicality, the better defensive play, the better organization, the higher speed, and the less skill-based nature of the game. In any league the scores can get lopsided. It doesn't mean that college hockey is not a different style of game than junior hockey.

If you don't know what I'm arguing, you should try to read what I've argued because its very clear, and you shouldn't be claiming I'm making things up because that wouldn't make sense. If you don't know what I'm arguing, how would you know that I'm making things up.

This is a discussion about the merits of a claim made about whether his season proves that he's better than Turcotte. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. Your opinion, you didn't share it. You got accusatory for no apparent reason. This isn't a contest to see who can defend or criticize Newhook better.

 

[WRC]

As to whose been the best of the freshman so far, I'd slightly lean to Caufield over Newhook.

I'll refrain from responding to the mass of meaningless rhetoric that makes up most of your post. Newhook has clearly been the better player in all areas, including the score sheet. If you've actually watched both teams play to any extent and this is your honest, impartial take then I'm sure glad you're not a scout for my team.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Boldy to Newhook a few minutes into the game, per usual

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'll refrain from responding to the mass of meaningless rhetoric that makes up most of your post. Newhook has clearly been the better player in all areas, including the score sheet. If you've actually watched both teams play to any extent and this is your honest, impartial take then I'm sure glad you're not a scout for my team.

My thoughts exactly.


No point in even responding to the rest of the post if that's his ultimate train of thought.


And like I said I had Caufield in my Top 5 last year and still have him above Newhook. But Newhook is absolutely having the best year among Freshman. And there's certainly a gap that is growing every night right now.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

My thoughts exactly.


No point in even responding to the rest of the post if that's his ultimate train of thought.


And like I said I had Caufield in my Top 5 last year and still have him above Newhook. But Newhook is absolutely having the best year among Freshman. And there's certainly a gap that is growing every night right now.

Look at Caufields production compared to his teammates. Then look at Newhooks. Caufield is basically carrying his teams offence, while Newhook is part of a group leading the offence.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

So now Turcotte is chopped liver and Matt Boldy is helping carry Newhook gotcha

 

[covfefe]

Post from @Pierce Hawthorne






This is a discussion about the merits of a claim made about whether his season proves that he's better than Turcotte. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. Your opinion, you didn't share it. You got accusatory for no apparent reason. This isn't a contest to see who can defend or criticize Newhook better.

That wasn’t what I said, at all..

I said I took a lot of flack for ranking him ahead of Turcotte, and that in retrospect that decision no longer seems so crazy.

As always, both players have many years ahead of them. Only those years will tell us who the superior player is.

I have no interest in hashing out who is better, in a vacuum. Those discussions are pure exercises in futility. But if you think there are 31 GM’s who as of today would prefer Turcotte to Newhook, well I have a plot of land to sell you. Again, that doesn’t mean he is better, or Turcotte is better - it’s a stance derived from personal preference. I simply think AN has superior long term upside to Turcotte. You don’t, that’s cool too.

Neither of us ultimately has any f***ing clue what will happen, so let’s not lose sight of that crucial detail!

 

[Breakers]

Caufield is basically carrying his teams offence,

A team that has scored 25 goals in its past 6 games is being carried by said players 4 points in that span.
I dont know about that one chief.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I have no interest in hashing out who is better, in a vacuum. Those discussions are pure exercises in futility. But if you think there are 31 GM’s who as of today would prefer Turcotte to Newhook, well I have a plot of land to sell you. Again, that doesn’t mean he is better, or Turcotte is better - it’s a stance derived from personal preference.

I simply think AN has superior long term upside to Turcotte.

Totally agree with your 1st point. It's so hard to cross-compare players when there are such different circumstances. Literally thousands of uncontrollable variables.

To your 2nd point, I so so hope so. I wanted Turcotte with our 4th overall really bad, not that I'm even 1% disappointed with Byram as he's looking legit himself. Could you elaborate a bit on what you see in Newhook for my own personal interests? I would love to hear more, as I didn't know much of him prior to us picking him and I want to get even more excited.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

A team that has scored 25 goals in its past 6 games is being carried by said players 4 points in that span.
I dont know about that one chief.

Plays with his brother too. Newhook doesn't even get his sister at school until next year! That's a ton of moral support that Newhook simply doesn't get.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'll refrain from responding to the mass of meaningless rhetoric that makes up most of your post. Newhook has clearly been the better player in all areas, including the score sheet. If you've actually watched both teams play to any extent and this is your honest, impartial take then I'm sure glad you're not a scout for my team.

I was listening to an interview with Corey Pronman from a few days ago, and he said the same thing.

Can I ask how much of each player you have seen this season to be insulting others for not agreeing with you about this? You must be an independent source, and not a fan with a stake in one having a better season than the other.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A team that has scored 25 goals in its past 6 games is being carried by said players 4 points in that span.
I dont know about that one chief.

Caufield might not be carrying Wisconsin, but he's been really good this season. It's not as if Newhook or any other freshman has been carrying their team either.

And they've been playing a lot better recently. Thats in large part because Turcotte has been great since returning from injury with has 9 points in those 6 games. I don't think that means that Wisconsin is a good team or that Caufield hasn't had a really good season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That wasn’t what I said, at all..

I said I took a lot of flack for ranking him ahead of Turcotte, and that in retrospect that decision no longer seems so crazy.

As always, both players have many years ahead of them. Only those years will tell us who the superior player is.

I have no interest in hashing out who is better, in a vacuum. Those discussions are pure exercises in futility. But if you think there are 31 GM’s who as of today would prefer Turcotte to Newhook, well I have a plot of land to sell you. Again, that doesn’t mean he is better, or Turcotte is better - it’s a stance derived from personal preference. I simply think AN has superior long term upside to Turcotte. You don’t, that’s cool too.

Neither of us ultimately has any f***ing clue what will happen, so let’s not lose sight of that crucial detail!

We don't need to hash out who is better, but I'm struggling to separate the initial opinion from what you claim. To me, they seem closely related. You specifically made a point to mention this season (I suspect their raw totals because I don't think the context surrounding their seasons is all that convincing towards Newhook) as proof for your opinion. I'm certainly not depriving you of an opinion and I don't know nor care what 31 NHL GM's would think. None of us are one of them. I'm merely arguing that the proof you were using is incredibly flawed, and I don't think it helps your argument like you think when you consider the context.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

A team that has scored 25 goals in its past 6 games is being carried by said players 4 points in that span.
I dont know about that one chief.

Caufield has 40% more points than anyone else on his team- predominantly goals and primary assists.

Newhook isn’t even the leading scorer on his squad.

 

[JoemAvs]

Caufield might not be carrying Wisconsin, but he's been really good this season. It's not as if Newhook or any other freshman has been carrying their team either.

And they've been playing a lot better recently. Thats in large part because Turcotte has been great since returning from injury with has 9 points in those 6 games. I don't think that means that Wisconsin is a good team or that Caufield hasn't had a really good season.

IMO the difference is that Newhook has answered many of the questions that made him "fall" to #16 (mainly the weak BCHL and his slow start to the season) while Caufield IMO only has exacerbated the concerns I have with him so far (mainly due to the WJC). I was beyond happy that Caufield got picked at #15 leaving Krebs and Newhook to the Avs and I still am. At the end of the day both but especially Caufield will have to prove that they can hold up against pros and grown men before we can make a judgement. But for now I am way more optimistic that Newhook can pull that off than I am with Caufield. But I never got the top5 or even top10 hype for Caufield in the first place so that could just be me being wrong. He certainly is a hell of a goalscoring talent but I just don't believe he can get away with his type of game in the pros with his size and his skating if he wants to live up to his hype.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Caufield has 40% more points than anyone else on his team- predominantly goals and primary assists.

Newhook isn’t even the leading scorer on his squad.

Is Turcotte that bad?

 

[BondraTime]

Caufield has 40% more points than anyone else on his team- predominantly goals and primary assists.

Newhook isn’t even the leading scorer on his squad.

Well considering Turcotte has 7 less games played and 10 less points, some context in that may have been added there.

Caulfield was definitely better in October with 10 points to Newhooks 1, but that’s it.

Since November, Newhook has destroyed Caufield in every way.

Since start of November

Newhook - 18G 21A 39P in 26GP
Caufield - 12G 14A 26P in 26GP

 

[WRC]

Caufield has 40% more points than anyone else on his team- predominantly goals and primary assists.

Newhook isn’t even the leading scorer on his squad.

By that reasoning Connor Brown must be better than McDavid. I know you want your boy to succeed, but that's some pretty flawed reasoning.