C Aleksi Heponiemi- Modo, Hockey Allsvenskan, Sweden (2017, 40th, FLA)

[JJTT]

0+1 today. Could've had couple of more points but Lehtinen made some good saves.

Didn't play any extended shifts btw, maybe he is still hope for him

 

[kelsier]

Now we finally have an explanation of why Kakko is the better player right now. Not my opinion, but you explained it, at least. You understand the Finnish league dynamics better than I do. No argument there. I don't think that makes my opinion invalid though. I think the majority of people who make assessments on these prospects aren't close followers of every league where these prospects play.

The way I see it, you had the book cover's and I had the inner pages. So practically unless you really think points define if player A is better than player B, then yes it would rationalise the validity of your argument. Suppose we all have our own ways of evaluation players and prospects, but that is all you presented along with the original claim.

You made an argument for me that I was about to make.

You, and some other Finn's, opine almost entirely on Finnish players, so of course you'll have some pro and anti opinions on Finnish players, unless you only have pro opinions or only have anti opinions. I don't exactly think that proves anything in a comparison between a Finnish player and a non-Finnish player.

You questioned the impartiality and got your answer. I really don't really see what else there is to it nor what would be the "better way to assess prospects" who have different origins. Nonetheless here we are pretty explicitly talking about certain few players and Kakko in particular. Had I not seen him play against older age group in the international level, nevermind at a pro league against grown ups, naturally I would never have these sentiments. Should I express confidence and believe that certain prospect is above others in his age class based on those viewings (such as the FIN - USA finals), as long as I'm honest to myself, I can live with comments that might seem too ambitious for some. Anyway, I really do not think generalizing any fan base's statements with a hint of bias with nothing to show for has any practical value. Do they make a lot of noise? Yeah sure, but it has no more bearing than if I said you were unobjective for reason X (nationality, personal preferences, etc). Come to think of it, consider for a moment that your favourite team hadn't won or even competed for the Cup for decades, then all of the sudden you had strong core and made it to the finals. Of course the fans would be raving and shouting. Would that be much different for the fans of country dedicated to the same sport who hadn't seen a light at the end of the tunnel for ages, until just recently when they started to win tournaments and had a strong pipeline of prospects still coming out? Considering how much has happened and what some of the youngsters are doing today (even in the NHL), maybe some of the opinions and reviews isn't all just blue and white.

You've insinuated that you were upset with Kakko's ice-time during the tournament, and others have said that ice-time is a factor in discussing a comparison between Heponiemi and Kakko. Maybe that isn't an argument you'd make though. If so, why discuss it further?

No, I remember that discussion exactly. I never branded you as a super-homer without responding to your post or tagging you. If I did, please provide a link to where I did that. I've had Turcotte #1 for most of this season and parts of last season. I briefly had Cozens #1, which reflects how close this draft is. I think there's very little separation within the top 10 because I don't believe there are any elite prospects in this draft.

Given that situation within this draft, I think you then have to look at positional considerations. Kakko is a winger. Hughes plays center, but I think he projects much better as a winger in the NHL. I think Kakko's the more likely of the two to play center in the NHL, but neither will likely play center in the NHL. Therefore, I have both players behind Turcotte and Cozens who I believe to be pretty equal talents who will stick in the center of the ice.

Since I know some of you care so much about this stuff, I have Hughes third and Kakko fourth. If Kakko plays more as a center in the upcoming months and plays well there, leading to more discussions about whether he'll play center, I think he could compete for first on my list. Dach is the other player who could compete for first. As I'm sure you'll be delighted to hear, I don't see Hughes as being a 1OA candidate on my list, unless we see a downturn in what the centers show in upcoming months. I don't believe there's enough value in his full game to justify being the first overall pick, although he might score the most points in the NHL from this draft.

I wasn't discussing it, I was commenting on a conclusion with no basis and clarified it such as it was. A statement with nothing more than maybe a result of someone's friction of imagination.

If I don't find something within 60 seconds I give up. So if you say you didn't tag/brand me as a homer then I'll just take your word for it.

As for the draft having elite players, I disagree. Kakko looks like a franchise talent at this point and he keeps continuing the transition as a center which will further increase his value. Although the entire center over anything mentality has blown out of proportions in my opinion anyway and I don't agree with the general assessment of wingers needing to be noticeably more talented than centers to be drafted ahead. Anyway, then there's Hughes who does have size issues and some concerns but the skill is undeniable. With the likes of Cozen, Zegras, Turcotte, Byram, Podkolzin and yes even Dach, it's not a bad draft to be picking players from the top 10 and anyone of them could turn elite at the end of the day.

Now with that said, if you followed up on FEL or Kakko I wouldn't be here explaining about his position and I suppose it just amazes me that you don't recognize the potential in him as the kid seems to have almost everything you'd want from a player. He's proven himself now as an under aged player first in the U18s and now in the U20s. Of course development is never linear but lets just say that the CV as well as the prove of an eyesight warrants such long term expectations. I do actually enjoy watching Hughes as well, but I do agree that he has some concerns as mentioned. Some of which were exposed in the WJC and there's no more guarantee for him to end up a C than most of these mentioned draftees finding elite level in NHL (I don't count elite and franchise players in the same category). I've thought he's often looked like a high IQ player but if you watch closely, he does makes mistakes too. A player like him needs a high IQ to excel in the big league, especially in the D+1 season, when he's physically still so raw that he needs to outwith the opponent. Anyway, he has been advertised as the #1 for such a long time that almost everyone seems to already greet him as one, thus it might make it more difficult for any team who wins the lottery to do the "unexpected".

Anyway, apologies for derailing the topic.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't have to be as knowledgeable about the Finnish league as you to have an opinion on players in the league. Having more knowledge about part of the equation for a comparison doesn't mean your opinion is better than mine.

 

[ijuka]

I really don't think that Kakko is worse than Heponiemi as a player right now.

 

[Legend123]

I really don't think that Kakko is worse than Heponiemi as a player right now.

Kakko ic certainly more NHL ready. More physically mature and just better all-around. Plays the game alot more like the NHL style than Hepo imo.

 

[Boxscore]

Kakko ic certainly more NHL ready. More physically mature and just better all-around. Plays the game alot more like the NHL style than Hepo imo.

What does this mean exactly?

Heponiemi plays a style similar to Gaudreau, Kane, Marner, etc. They're doing pretty good in the NHL.

I do agree that Kakko is bigger, sturdier and stronger. But today's NHL, small, highly-skilled players can be very effective, even if they are frail and skinny. Look at Pettersson - the kid is bone thin.

 

[Legend123]

What does this mean exactly?

Heponiemi plays a style similar to Gaudreau, Kane, Marner, etc. They're doing pretty good in the NHL.

I do agree that Kakko is bigger, sturdier and stronger. But today's NHL, small, highly-skilled players can be very effective, even if they are frail and skinny. Look at Pettersson - the kid is bone thin.

I not saying who's game will translate to the NHL. Im saying Kakko's ability to play North-south will make him more NHL ready than Hepo who relies on a very very skilled game. Skilled-reliant players tend to take more NHL time. A good comparison is Brady Tkachuk, he play north-south and made the NHL right off the bat. An arguably more skilled player like Zadina is taking more time to make the NHL. And of top of that Kakko is insanely skilled. He plays north-south and has elite skills. Reminds me of Malkin to a certain extent but more of a power forward truck.

 

[ijuka]

What does this mean exactly?

Heponiemi plays a style similar to Gaudreau, Kane, Marner, etc. They're doing pretty good in the NHL.

I do agree that Kakko is bigger, sturdier and stronger. But today's NHL, small, highly-skilled players can be very effective, even if they are frail and skinny. Look at Pettersson - the kid is bone thin.

I'd say that Kakko is more skilled than Heponiemi, though.

In terms of % of team, Kakko isn't even behind Heponiemi in scoring. One team's scored 109 goals, one 135.

 

[JJTT]

2 goals in last two games, both were really nice too.

Today vs Sport: Kärpät-Sport, 2019-02-02, Goal
vs Pelicans earlier this week Pelicans-Kärpät, 2019-01-30, Goal

Played center today with Kupari out. Some flashes here and there but at least at the moment he is better at wing.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

In all competitions this season (Liiga,WJC,CHL)
53 games, 17 goals, 34 assists, 51 points (0.96 ppg), is +21 with 22 penalty minutes.

Kärpät&Hepo - 13 games left in the regular season, they are the favorites to win the league championship,
so double digit number of play-off games is more likely than not, possible World Championships at Bratislava&Kosice.
= 30+ games left this season

---

12 month span: WHL (17r&26p games),M-CUP (3 games),Liiga,WJC,CHL
99 games, 27 goals, 84 assists, 111 points (1.12 ppg), is +28 with 38 penalty minutes .

 

[Captain Clutch]

I'd say that Kakko is more skilled than Heponiemi, though.

In terms of % of team, Kakko isn't even behind Heponiemi in scoring. One team's scored 109 goals, one 135.

I don't know that I agree with this. We just saw them both in the World Juniors and by my eye, Hepo was not only Finland's MVP for the tournament but also it's most skilled player and consistently dangerous. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kakko who is obviously two years younger but I don't think he's more skilled. Will he be a better NHL player, I would guess he would by virtue of his NHL ready body and natural strength but by skill alone, I still take Hepo.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Heponiemi needs 34 games, 43 points (1.26 ppg) to match Pettersson's last season stats (points)
- Kärpät played 18 games in the last play-offs, 18+13=31 + possible WC games to top that,
i think he should get at least that 34 games

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Hepo is doing great but I don't think grouping him with Pettersson is wise at this point, he very well might be a PPG talent from Liiga but I never bet on Finns becoming actual PPG threats in the show

There's an argument also for Kupari that he's doing better than Hepo is. Who I thought would top out as a Craig Smith type of player.

My point is that Hepo at this point shouldn't be compared to semi established seemingly top end talent, not yet.

 

[JJTT]

Another goal tonight, has scored in 4 games in a row, 7 points in last 4 games.

He's finally starting to look confrotable in 5vs5 too, creating something in every shift.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

What you think?

He is having a really good season in the Liiga, its his first pro season,
it started as 19, just over month ago he turned 20.

Now, his season has not been as monsteresc as Emil Pettersson's last season
but, he has a chance to at least match his season numbers.
Not really comparing them together but, rather... well, some sort starting point if you will.

In all competitions this season Hepo has 18 goals, 34 assists, 52 points in 54 games (0.96 ppg)
(Liiga, CHL, WJC)

Aleksi still haves between 30-40 games left this season, regular season (12), play-offs (10-20)
and possible Worlds, he needs to play 33 games to match Pettersson's total number of games
and in those games he needs to score 42 points to match his totals.

(again, not trying to compare, just wanted to point that out)

He has improved lots from last season, also he weigh'd 140 pounds last season,
but 155 this season,he is still light, but not all twig anymore -> 5 foot 11 | 155 lbs,
160-165 lbs should be more than enough for him in the new NHL.

Panthers roster (top 9) surely has room for a player like Aleksi Heponiemi.
he can play either LW (natural position) or RW (the position that he has played this season)

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

He also has played as a C during Kupari's absence but yes, plays mainly wing and damn well. Now 5+3 in 5 games.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Look at Pettersson - the kid is bone thin.

Right but he's also getting injured quite often because he's long and thin right now. The short players that make it atleast have a bit of thickness/muscle to them that makes them a bit sturdier. Kane for example is surprisingly strong for his size and Gaudreau is extremely agile and quick to react which helps him avoid damage.

Also NHL playoff hockey is a completely different animal where smaller players often get banged up before the later rounds.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

What you think?

He is having a really good season in the Liiga, its his first pro season,
it started as 19, just over month ago he turned 20.

Now, his season has not been as monsteresc as Emil Pettersson's last season
but, he has a chance to at least match his season numbers.
Not really comparing them together but, rather... well, some sort starting point if you will.

In all competitions this season Hepo has 18 goals, 34 assists, 52 points in 54 games (0.96 ppg)
(Liiga, CHL, WJC)

Aleksi still haves between 30-40 games left this season, regular season (12), play-offs (10-20)
and possible Worlds, he needs to play 33 games to match Pettersson's total number of games
and in those games he needs to score 42 points to match his totals.

(again, not trying to compare, just wanted to point that out)

He has improved lots from last season, also he weigh'd 140 pounds last season,
but 155 this season,he is still light, but not all twig anymore -> 5 foot 11 | 155 lbs,
160-165 lbs should be more than enough for him in the new NHL.

Panthers roster (top 9) surely has room for a player like Aleksi Heponiemi.
he can play either LW (natural position) or RW (the position that he has played this season)

No way he's 5'11 now.

 

[Ippenator]

No way he's 5'11 now.

Why do you say that? Liiga site and Eliteprospects both claim that he is 180 cm tall, which would be about 5’11. Or do you think he is maybe taller? Definitely he isn’t at least shorter than that.

 

[Jussi]

Why do you say that? Liiga site and Eliteprospects both claim that he is 180 cm tall, which would be about 5’11. Or do you think he is maybe taller? Definitely he isn’t at least shorter than that.

He definitely looked at least 180 cm tall at the WJC. Really needs to get his weight closer to 80 kilos. Sebastian Aho would be something he should aim at, he's listed as 180 cm and 78 kilos.

 

[Elias GOATtersson]

Right but he's also getting injured quite often because he's long and thin right now. The short players that make it atleast have a bit of thickness/muscle to them that makes them a bit sturdier. Kane for example is surprisingly strong for his size and Gaudreau is extremely agile and quick to react which helps him avoid damage.

Also NHL playoff hockey is a completely different animal where smaller players often get banged up before the later rounds.

Anyone would've been injured on the plays EP got injured on.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He definitely looked at least 180 cm tall at the WJC. Really needs to get his weight closer to 80 kilos. Sebastian Aho would be something he should aim at, he's listed as 180 cm and 78 kilos.

It's more than just weight though. Aho is freakishly strong for his size. Always amazes me when a defensemen comes up to check him along the board and Aho drives a shoulder back into the defenseman and knocks him backwards.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

First time as a pro (finally) Aleksi Heponiemi gets to play his natural position, LW
Ässät-Kärpät | Kärpät 2nd line: Heponiemi-Kupari-Koblinzek

I expect points somewhere from 3 to 5 points.

 

[Noma]

First time as a pro (finally) Aleksi Heponiemi gets to play his natural position, LW
Ässät-Kärpät | Kärpät 2nd line: Heponiemi-Kupari-Koblinzek

I expect points somewhere from 3 to 5 points.

How is it his natural position? He played his whole junior career in Finland as a center.

 

[Tryamkin]

His natural position is definitely not left wing.