Byfuglien

[bazaaa*]

Obviously Buff is elite defencemen, no one in the world would argue that. That's not what you said, obviously.

 

[wpgsilver]

Buff has been better this year than the last couple, minus a slip up here and there.
I think we could make a deal work.

Obviously Buff is elite defencemen, no one in the world would argue that. That's not what you said, obviously.

That's my original post.

I have no clue what you're talking about.
If its just another ax to grind that's cool, but some context as to which ax would be appreciated.

 

[bazaaa*]

Buff not being elite.

Seems like you think he's elite. Mind you that was a few weeks ago, so you know, your opinion can all the sudden change.
Rest of our discussion was deleted where you defended he was an elite defenseman and would bring in an elite return.

 

[allthisgold]

The thing that people who do not like Buff don't acknowledge is how good he is at breaking out of our zone even under pressure. He doesn't panic and makes good passes (everyone makes mistakes Re: Bogo the other night passing right up the middle against Nashville) and more often than not we keep possession. He is excellent at this and when he is out of the lineup this suffers greatly.

This year (except the Chicago game in Chicago) he has been much better than the last two years.

 

[wpgsilver]

Context?

When you're one of the leading scoring defenseman, you go to the allstar game. They don't look at how terrible your defense is.
If he's an elite defenseman, 90% of the people here wouldn't have been talking about trading him last year. BUT HEY, HE'S PLAYED GOOD FOR TEN GAMES NOW, HE'S ELITE AGAIN.

Your post talked about him being a top scorer. Then you diminish him because people wanted to trade him last year.
He's an elite offence defencemen.
The entire discussion. Revolved around offence and value to teams
No one has ever framed him as a shut down guy.
Read the whole thing. Supahdupah talked about playing time and POINTS.
You talk about scoring.

No one ever calls him shut down.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know what else to tell you. Buff is a first pairing elite offensive defenseman. Your argument is that he isn't because some anonymous posters on this board make awful fantasy trade proposals.

And what's your argument he's elite? Because you read a stat line that he can score points?
Buff's elite, Bogo is great, Enstrom's great, yet we have one of the worst defences in the league.

These are the posts that follow mine

 

[Grind]

Ducks fan here, I have a few questions regarding Byfuglien.

1. How has he looked this season?

2. Do you think the Jets will trade him?

3. What would you like in return from the Ducks? We have a great prospect pool, two 1st round picks, and Sbisa.

I'd be into a package including Sbiza (ex flyers fan and always liked him)

Again a 2nd line center would be ideal, though a healthy package of prospects + picks would be nice too (silvferberg, Etem, those frists)

not sure exactly what i'd want or how the others are valued ...

 

[bazaaa*]

Context?


Your post talked about him being a top scorer. Then you diminish him because people wanted to trade him last year.
He's an elite offence defencemen.
The entire discussion. Revolved around offence and value to teams
No one has ever framed him as a shut down guy.
Read the whole thing. Supahdupah talked about playing time and POINTS.
You talk about scoring.

No one ever calls him shut down.






These are the posts that follow mine

I said he's not elite because he's inconsistent and every team knows this. You went on to say how good he's been this year and he's an elite player and would bring an elite return. I said if he was elite, the majority of this forum wouldn't want to trade him.
But hey, you can change your opinion now, that's cool.

 

[BigZ65]

You're gonna have to prove that, because I don't think that's true at all.

I don't know how you want me to prove that, I mean I can toss anecdotal examples at you and those can be disputed too. It happens a couple times every period, often Byfuglien will jump up and look for a lead pass when both teams are changing, then he's left out there, hopefully with the Jets gaining the zone, sometimes with the opposing team taking a turnover and controlling the puck in our zone, and Byfuglien has taking an extra trip up the ice and back. I've watched every game of Jets 2.0 and seen more than 1/4 of them live, Byfuglien taking an extra long shift is a fairly common occurrence.

First shift of the game vs San Jose, Clitsome was off in 34 seconds, Byfuglien was on for 1:49, this one didn't burn us as we controlled the puck and drew a penalty. If you look down the TOI reports, Byfuglien has loads of shifts longer than 1:00 in every game, some are on the PP, but many are 5 on 5.

 

[wpgsilver]

I'm glad you seem so sure about my views.
My view is he's an elite offensive defenceman.
If you think the Schenns are too elite of a return okay.
But I started a whole thread based on that.

As for picking out selective quotes that are down on Buff, it would be just as disingenuous to post selective posts that praise Buff as the sole indication of his valuation.

I tend to agree with Huffer here about cherry picking individual posts.
But hey, whatever floats your boat. I bet there are a TON of posts I have that contradict each other. That's the nature of sports and posting multiple times a day over the course of years.

 

[paine]

He still sucks at playing defense, but he has gotten better, and is still same old offensive Buff.

One thing I would say is that I personally don't want to trade him for question marks.

This kind of scares me. Is he that bad in his own end?

Buff has elite talent. Buff is not an elite player.

Holland + Sbisa + (insert any Ducks goalie) would be a great base for a trade. My guess is they'd want a bit coming back...Gooch as a rental perhaps?

You don't want Holland or Sbisa, trust me. But I could see Murray tricking another GM into taking them.


How would you compare Bogosian's game to Buff?

 

[garret9]

Buff isn't bad at defense... He has good gap control, strong skater, great on boards, active stick and can be physical... and hell of a puck mover minimizing his time in the defensive zone.

The problem's that cause him to seem bad defensively are:
* brain farts (happens to the best)
* tries creating so sometimes gets caught punching, looks doubly bad when forwards don't cover
* in previous seasons conditioning would cause him to get caught

Scoring chances against this season are about 20% lower than the last two seasons... So, he's even getting better.

 

[JetsHomer]

Buff isn't bad at defense... He has good gap control, strong skater, great on boards, active stick and can be physical... and hell of a puck mover minimizing his time in the defensive zone.

The problem's that cause him to seem bad defensively are:
* brain farts (happens to the best)
* tries creating so sometimes gets caught punching, looks doubly bad when forwards don't cover
* in previous seasons conditioning would cause him to get caught

Scoring chances against this season are about 20% lower than the last two seasons... So, he's even getting better.

I'd agree with your assessment. I'd add that he does sometimes play lazy in the D-zone, either not taking his man or not taking his mans stick. It could be confirmation bias on my part but it seems like Buff is the worst of our top 4 at making sure his man doesn't score. Toby is a stick wizard and Bogo plays the body, but it seems like Buff sometimes hesitates on how to make a defensive play sometimes and gets burned bad.

 

[garret9]

I'd agree with your assessment. I'd add that he does sometimes play lazy in the D-zone, either not taking his man or not taking his mans stick. It could be confirmation bias on my part but it seems like Buff is the worst of our top 4 at making sure his man doesn't score. Toby is a stick wizard and Bogo plays the body, but it seems like Buff sometimes hesitates on how to make a defensive play sometimes and gets burned bad.

I kind of mentally placed laziness under brain farts category but didn't say that haha, my bad.

 

[theamazingchris]

I don't know how you want me to prove that, I mean I can toss anecdotal examples at you and those can be disputed too. It happens a couple times every period, often Byfuglien will jump up and look for a lead pass when both teams are changing, then he's left out there, hopefully with the Jets gaining the zone, sometimes with the opposing team taking a turnover and controlling the puck in our zone, and Byfuglien has taking an extra trip up the ice and back. I've watched every game of Jets 2.0 and seen more than 1/4 of them live, Byfuglien taking an extra long shift is a fairly common occurrence.

First shift of the game vs San Jose, Clitsome was off in 34 seconds, Byfuglien was on for 1:49, this one didn't burn us as we controlled the puck and drew a penalty. If you look down the TOI reports, Byfuglien has loads of shifts longer than 1:00 in every game, some are on the PP, but many are 5 on 5.

Yeah, I don't disagree, but I'm just not sure that it happens to him more than other players. If it did, it would be a problem with his game, but I don't see it happening often enough that I'd call it a problem, y'know? I also watch a lot of games, and I actually have been using shiftchart.com a lot (I was originally tracking when Noel scrambles his lines, who he promotes/double-shifts etc.) and someone being trapped on the ice is a rare occurrence in the first place, rare enough that I don't see it as being a big problem.

 

[theamazingchris]

This kind of scares me. Is he that bad in his own end? You don't want Holland or Sbisa, trust me. But I could see Murray tricking another GM into taking them. How would you compare Bogosian's game to Buff?

To the first bolded, in a word, no. He's not that bad in his own end. He always faces top competition, the kind of guys that have the ability to make anyone look bad. Having said that, he is certainly more comfortable and better playing in the offensive zone. If he's paired with a d-man and forward corps who gives him the freedom to attack, he's a terrific weapon all over the ice.

To the second, Bogo probably isn't outright better in any specific way. His puck movement is a step behind, although like Buff he can be very physical. He's also not as good with his stick. He can skate a bit quicker, but he doesn't have a huge offensive game so it's not as integral. He does have a fair bit of untapped potential, given how young he is. On the whole he is probably worth more, not because he is better, but because he's younger.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'm a big Sbisa fan so I'd be interested in him in a package. Sbisa + for Buff?

Hey Garret, any chance you know the possession stats of Sbisa?

 

[bazaaa*]

Buff isn't bad at defense... He has good gap control, strong skater, great on boards, active stick and can be physical... and hell of a puck mover minimizing his time in the defensive zone.

The problem's that cause him to seem bad defensively are:
* brain farts (happens to the best)
* tries creating so sometimes gets caught punching, looks doubly bad when forwards don't cover
* in previous seasons conditioning would cause him to get caught

Scoring chances against this season are about 20% lower than the last two seasons... So, he's even getting better.

Any stat for standing in front of the net and not tying the guy up?

 

[garret9]

Any stat for standing in front of the net and not tying the guy up?

Ya... the SIFOTNANTGU stat?

LOL... although the more often it happens, the more negative results you are going to get in the overall stats.

 

[Huffer]

I'm a big Sbisa fan so I'd be interested in him in a package. Sbisa + for Buff?

Hey Garret, any chance you know the possession stats of Sbisa?

If Anaheim was the place for Buff, while I wouldn't throw Sbisa out, I would personally be more interested in Silfverberg or Palmieri as the main piece. Otherwise, players like Rakell and Noesen intrigue me as well.

 

[garret9]

I'm a big Sbisa fan so I'd be interested in him in a package. Sbisa + for Buff?

Hey Garret, any chance you know the possession stats of Sbisa?

I know nothing about ANA lol

Not the best or worse numbers this, but I have no context to place it in (teammates, matchups, etc)...

I could add context through research but I'm just leaving now to go into my dungeon (lab) for a few hours.

I'm going to be looking some stuff up tonight with a few articles for AIH I have coming up over the next two days. If I remember I'll look into this in a more detail and add here.

If I forget, remind me ahaha.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Ya... the SIFOTNANTGU stat?

LOL... although the more often it happens, the more negative results you are going to get in the overall stats.

Yeesh, not another internet acronym!

 

[paine]

I'm a big Sbisa fan so I'd be interested in him in a package. Sbisa + for Buff?

Hey Garret, any chance you know the possession stats of Sbisa?

Sbisa is no good. You can do a lot better.

 

[Duke749]

Also, people consistently underrate his ability to stick-check. Just because he has size doesn't mean he has to use it. The only person on this team who's better at it is Enstrom, AFAIC.

So many people tend to miss this, but Buff is fantastic with his stick. He really knows how to stuff rushes with it.

Buff isn't bad at defense... He has good gap control, strong skater, great on boards, active stick and can be physical... and hell of a puck mover minimizing his time in the defensive zone.

The problem's that cause him to seem bad defensively are:
* brain farts (happens to the best)
* tries creating so sometimes gets caught punching, looks doubly bad when forwards don't cover
* in previous seasons conditioning would cause him to get caught

Scoring chances against this season are about 20% lower than the last two seasons... So, he's even getting better.

Seems about right just from watching him this year. He's basically much better this year then in the previous ones.

 

[The Ugly Truth*]

Ducks fan here, I have a few questions regarding Byfuglien.

1. How has he looked this season?

2. Do you think the Jets will trade him?

3. What would you like in return from the Ducks? We have a great prospect pool, two 1st round picks, and Sbisa.

At times he appears to flip a switch - at whim - and enter "beast mode"; when he does that he can become utterly dominant and take over an entire game. At other times he seems to be just floating out there. Because the defense of the Jets is so weak, most games he seems to be trying to do too much to compensate for his horrible defence partners. He also has been logging huge amounts of ice time and probably has been taking longer shifts than would be ideal. (The last time I checked his ice time numbers he was among the league leaders.)

Anaheim would probably be an ideal trade partner for the Jets because they are so deep in forward and goal talent. I think a fair trade for Buff would be one of the best young Anaheim forwards as well as any one of their three starting goalies. And maybe the Jets could send a draft choice to Anaheim to get a #6 or 7 defenseman back as well.

There's a good chance that once surrounded by high-end talent Buff would feel less pressure to "carry the team" and he might also feel more compelled to turn things up a notch or two and perform closer to his level of ability on a more consistent basis. If the Anaheim coaches could figure out how to get him to consistently go into "beast mode" I wouldn't bet against them winning the Cup.

I think Winnipeg needs to get rid of Noel (hire Dineen, Martin, Laviolette or even Crawford), blow up the team (trade Buff/Enstrom/Wheeler/Jokinen/Pavelec), and rebuild through drafts like Calgary is finally doing this year. Hope for the top pick in this year's or (ideally) next year's draft. In 4 years the young core would be set to become consistent serious challengers for the Cup.