Not true. Again.
Flip also played a lot of time with Hudler and Bertuzzi and other guys. Other than two years ago, he hasn't spent many prolonged periods with Zetterberg or Datsyuk.
Not true. Again.
Flip also played a lot of time with Hudler and Bertuzzi and other guys. Other than two years ago, he hasn't spent many prolonged periods with Zetterberg or Datsyuk.
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
- Feb 6, 2010
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So if Flip has played mostly wing since 2009 and Weiss center, how can you manage to compare the two?
1) Weiss isn't bumping Datsyuk or Zetterberg.
2) Flip actually did start as 2nd line center, and according to your flawed logic, "bumped" Zetterberg and Datsyuk "off their world class position."
Really.... I can't even believe you posted that.
Hey, you got use a big, glorious gif though
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
- Feb 6, 2010
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1) Weiss isn't bumping Datsyuk or Zetterberg.
2) Flip actually did start as 2nd line center, and according to your flawed logic, "bumped" Zetterberg and Datsyuk "off their world class position."
Really.... I can't even believe you posted that.
Hey, you got use a big, glorious gif though
Who were our Top-6 centers last year?
One is being BUMPED up to make room for Weiss.
Weiss is considered an option to center line two. Filppula, as we know him now, was not. Weiss may also fail to hold the job, this is Babcock we're talking about and he loves spreading out his talent, but for now it's clear management values Weiss at center more than they did 2013 Filpplua.
Also I got to use a gif which is pretty sweet.
Also I got to use a gif which is pretty sweet.
Henkka
Registered User
Filppula with Datsyuk or Zetterberg:
Season 2010-11: 0% of ES icetime
Season 2011-12: 87% of ES icetime
Season 2012-13: 67% of ES icetime
Season 2010-11: 0% of ES icetime
Season 2011-12: 87% of ES icetime
Season 2012-13: 67% of ES icetime
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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This year he started so fast he was getting Hart talk, but then did nothing for the following month+. The problem is more that he tends to have prolonged slumps than that they necessarily happen at the beginning of the year.
Henkka
Registered User
I don't give a **** about those streaks or season starts as long as our team is winning.
ThankYouBasedGod
Registered User
Yeah, but he had already played 23 games in the Swiss league before the NHL even started so it wasn't really the start to his season.
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
- Feb 6, 2010
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You mean one isn't going to move from the #2C to make room for Weiss?
It's funny that you say that since that's what's been reported.
Exactly.
You're politicking your words. Nobody buys the double speak.
It would be like saying that all these years, Zetterberg was bumped from second line center for Filppula.
Just read Bench's statement again and bask in it.
"Makes one wonder why Weiss, not Filppula, is considered good enough to bump one off of their world class position."
The inference being that Weiss is so good he actually bumped a world class player out of their position.
Of course, the Red Wings thought this about Filppula for 3-4 years too.
The only way D-Z stay together is if they are hot.
Just like every other year Filppula was 2C, if D-Z struggle, coach will separate them.
True. But I think the D-Z-Brunner line did nothing for 3 games so he tore it up.
Could also be that Flip missed a game , too
19 for president
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- Apr 28, 2002
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If our 2nd line isn't a dead zone for offense, then Z and Dats will stay together. Flip, Franzen, Cleary, etc... all have failed to produce consistently when not paired with one of the Euro twins. When this happens, teams can focus their main D lines/ pairings on our first line and shut it down. Thus Z an D get split. Whether at center or wing, Flip has never been a guy that really created offense on his own. He isn't that type of player. Weiss and Alfie are both guys known for creating offensive and carrying lines offensively. So I have hope that they can get the job done.
Z & D being effective offensively will depend on if Z's wrist holds up and if they get a shooter or grinder to play with them. Z is the focal point of this line in terms of its effectiveness. When Z's wrist bummed out and he started becoming a playmaker vs a shooter, his chemistry with Dats dried up. It can come back but it will depend on Z's mindset. He is also the key to making the 3rd player on that line work. Very few players have chemistry with Dats, because he thinks the game at such a crazy high level. It took almost 4 seasons for him to have anything resembling chemsitry with Homer, and even that was forced. What made that line work so well was that Z was able to play with and use both players to the best of their ability. I'm actually not disgusted by a Z-Dats-Abby line for this reason. While Dats is way too smart for Abby, I think Z can simply the game enough for him to be effective, much like he did with Homer. While I do think Abby lacks some of Homer's offensive instincts he will make up for that with defensive ability and skating ability.
Z & D being effective offensively will depend on if Z's wrist holds up and if they get a shooter or grinder to play with them. Z is the focal point of this line in terms of its effectiveness. When Z's wrist bummed out and he started becoming a playmaker vs a shooter, his chemistry with Dats dried up. It can come back but it will depend on Z's mindset. He is also the key to making the 3rd player on that line work. Very few players have chemistry with Dats, because he thinks the game at such a crazy high level. It took almost 4 seasons for him to have anything resembling chemsitry with Homer, and even that was forced. What made that line work so well was that Z was able to play with and use both players to the best of their ability. I'm actually not disgusted by a Z-Dats-Abby line for this reason. While Dats is way too smart for Abby, I think Z can simply the game enough for him to be effective, much like he did with Homer. While I do think Abby lacks some of Homer's offensive instincts he will make up for that with defensive ability and skating ability.
Are you honestly still arguing that his entire point is wrong because of the way he worded it? Everyone knew what he meant, and you somehow interpreted it as him saying that Weiss is apparently better than Datsyuk or Zetterberg. You are the only person here that took it that way, and then you proceeded to argue about his choice of words more than what the words were saying.
He is saying that Datsyuk and Zetterberg being together on the 1st line is dependent upon the quality of the 2nd line's center position, thus technically it is the 2nd line that bumps up, as opposed to the 1st line bumping down.
Weiss/Filppula being good enough to qualify as a legitimate 2nd line center allows Datsyuk/Zetterberg to both remain on the top line and not sacrifice scoring depth beyond the first line, but if the 2nd line fails, then they are broken up in order to prevent our roster from being top-heavy. That is his point. Nobody is saying that D or Z are being pushed aside in favor of Weiss.
Roomba With a Bauer
Registered User
- Sep 11, 2007
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Filppila is a career .5ppg guy. Our lack of a legit 2nd line C option is a huge part of our playoff losses the last four years. Weiss on this roster is a 60 point C.
I like Henkka's stats. When you are spending >50% of your playing time with D and or Z and are only scoring at a 40 point per season clip something is wrong.
Still think we made the wrong choice keeping Flip over Hudler.
I like Henkka's stats. When you are spending >50% of your playing time with D and or Z and are only scoring at a 40 point per season clip something is wrong.
Still think we made the wrong choice keeping Flip over Hudler.
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Henkka
Registered User
You just really can't compare Filppula straight to Weiss. At earliest, you can make some comparison until we have seen a season from Weiss as our 2nd line center, on one of the NHL top teams.
At first, Weiss has been a legitimate 1st line center for years at weak Florida. Yes, he benefits from bigger ice-time on the 1st PP, but he also plays against toughest opposite defensive lines every night. Filppula has never been on that kind of position. He has benefited from easier competition, and that clearly shows in his good ES production. He has been good at it. But he has suffered of the lack of PP time, because of his not-just-good-enough skill level, exact opposite situation to Weiss.
Filppula produced his greatest season as a winger, Weiss has never been a winger. Weiss has had "Bertuzzi", "Franzen", "Hudler", "Cleary" -level wingers at Florida (Fleischmann, Kopecky, Versteeg, Frolik, Higgins, Samsonov), just like Filppula usually at Detroit. But Weiss has never had anybody near at Datsyuk/Zetterberg superstar-level linemates, or teammates to carry the heaviest competition, like Filppula has had all these years at Detroit.
Their recent history is so much different. You really can't compare them 1-on-1 before we'll see same kind of season from Weiss as a contenders 2nd line center or a season from Filppula as non-playoff-team 1st line center.
At first, Weiss has been a legitimate 1st line center for years at weak Florida. Yes, he benefits from bigger ice-time on the 1st PP, but he also plays against toughest opposite defensive lines every night. Filppula has never been on that kind of position. He has benefited from easier competition, and that clearly shows in his good ES production. He has been good at it. But he has suffered of the lack of PP time, because of his not-just-good-enough skill level, exact opposite situation to Weiss.
Filppula produced his greatest season as a winger, Weiss has never been a winger. Weiss has had "Bertuzzi", "Franzen", "Hudler", "Cleary" -level wingers at Florida (Fleischmann, Kopecky, Versteeg, Frolik, Higgins, Samsonov), just like Filppula usually at Detroit. But Weiss has never had anybody near at Datsyuk/Zetterberg superstar-level linemates, or teammates to carry the heaviest competition, like Filppula has had all these years at Detroit.
Their recent history is so much different. You really can't compare them 1-on-1 before we'll see same kind of season from Weiss as a contenders 2nd line center or a season from Filppula as non-playoff-team 1st line center.
If it works I think it will stick. If not they will be split up. It will all depend on if it works for the team. It should work with Weiss on 2C.
But let me ask you this, play this scenario out. Our 3rd or 4th line center gets injured. Do we still keep 2 legit centers on the first line together?...
But let me ask you this, play this scenario out. Our 3rd or 4th line center gets injured. Do we still keep 2 legit centers on the first line together?...
