Burrows Buyout

[DrunkUncleDenis]

This seems like a cheap shot to me. Burrows was just bought out. People should be allowed to air their grievances today of all days no?

haha ya, maybe it was. I just get frustrated when people have been bitching (and rightfully so) all year, and finally when we get some "thank god" news, the anger continues or even increases. I think we should celebrate our small victories, cuz we ain't getting large ones any time soon.

Burrows was not worth a second round pick, that’s for sure, and that’s what Dahlen was. It’s funny how as soon as Dahlen left there were a lot of “well he’ll never amount to anything anyway” kind of posts. Funny how I never saw those until he was gone. If Dahlen turns out to be a good player, we will look back on this deal even more unfavourably than we do now.

The bolded is literally just people trying convince themselves of an obviously risky and questionable move the franchise made. I don't blame them... we all bleed with this team. I'm guilty of it sometimes.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

I haven't read this whole thing but one thing thats a bit annoying lately is every move the team makes people say "this is clearly just about saving money". When did that become a bad thing?

I get that when its a bad decision done just to save money, its annoying - but when its a good decision done to save money what the hell do people want?

Pierre's on fire, the hockey world is terrified

Hide your 2nd rounders!

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Obviously it was a complete and utter failure of a trade on all fronts but glad this cost cutting measure actually helps the team, i assume a rookie will replace him so most importantly Euge can put an extra couple hundred k in his pockets next year!

It was a long-term failure for sure, and brutal at any point after the 2016-2017 season, but it wasn't a COMPLETE failure. I believe he helped short-term team depth for our playoff run. If we made the Finals, and maybe even won the damn thing, Dahlen would have been the sacrificial goat. Unfortunately, we came up short, Burrows got injured, and the gamble didn't pay off.

The extension though, that was asinine, a product of a green GM falling in love with a player whose reputation far outweighed what he could currently bring.

He should have been acquired purely as a rental for some future consideration. Not Dahlen.

 

[operasen]

Burrows is gone. That's a good think. I did not like the trade, but that's water under the bridge now. The open roster spot for someone like McCormick is what its all about. This is a positive to see what is coming and give them a look.

 

[branch]

Burrows is gone. That's a good think. I did not like the trade, but that's water under the bridge now. The open roster spot for someone like McCormick is what its all about. This is a positive to see what is coming and give them a look.

McCormick is terrible though, how he has a 1-way deal is beyond me lmao.

 

[Xspyrit]

Not to take away from the obvious fact that you're "too rational" and the rest of us are far from it, but maybe consider that Dahlen's potential at the time (and now he's of course merely top 5 or 6 on Vancouver's prospect lists) could have fetched a better player than Burrows, and so even if Dahlen busts completely today, the return could have been better.

Or instead, just think of dealing a 1st round (or 2nd round, whatever) pick to get Burrows (and include the very rational 2-yr extension, of course). Why does it matter if the pick doesn't amount to anything later on?

Okay.

1) Where do I say that everybody else but me is not rational? How do you conclude that from « maybe I’m too rational »?

2) Why do you once in a while feel targeted and get defensive by comments that aren’t concerning you at all? Do you think I have you in mind when I type my post? Sorry but no. I say things, if the hat fits wear it. What can I do? I am not going to restrain my freedom of speech as long as I’m not insulting anybody, sorry if you feel that way

3) It looks like you really didn’t understand my post. Who cares about potential when we can look at the net result?

4) Did you read the post I was quoting? If Dahlen retires now then he would have 0 NHL games for the Canucks and then it’s obviously an easy « win » for the Sens. I mean it’s pretty logic. Unless you think that everything Burrows did on the ice for the Senators was negative. In that case, you might have missed a lot of games, particularly in 2016-17 + playoffs

5) I’m on the record so many times for having disliked this trade right from the start. I don’t know if I have to repeat all over again. I really liked Dahlen as a prospect (my swedish bias) and would have liked to take my chances on developing him (still a bit pissed at Dorion for sacrificing him). But it’s true, he still could end up doing not much, you know like Andre Petersson (which I was much higher on) for example and he had a great track record and impressive stats.

6) In summary, if Dahlen becomes a regular NHL player, we would have been right to be pissed at that trade; if he busts or doesn’t stick in NA, then we (myself included) would have complained (a lot) for nothing

7) Finally, I’ll repeat my take quickly for you : if it doesn’t cost you an interesting prospect like JD and you don’t absolutely have to sign Burrows to a 2 years extension, then bring him no problem. If one of those situations happen, then explore another option.

 

[Engineer]

Wow

When was the last time we bought out a player? Was it Emery?

Buyout History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

PLAYER	TEAM	DATE	VALUE	LENGTH	FIRST YEAR	LAST YEAR	BOUGHTOUT CONTRACT CAP HIT	BOUGHTOUT YEARS REMAINING
Butler, Bobby	OTT	Jun 27, 2012	$400,000	2	2012-13	2013-14	$1,050,000	1
Alfredsson, Daniel	OTT	Jun 30, 2009	$2,100,000	3	2009-10	2011-12	$4,873,876	0
Emery, Ray	OTT	Jun 23, 2008	$2,250,000	4	2008-09	2011-12	$3,166,666	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[L'Aveuglette]

On this one... not sure it really supports the "Melnyk is cheap" argument. We save 833,333 but lose a roster player. We likely replace from within with a cheap player, but the actual savings of that roster spot are negligible. It was about moving on from an older player, not saving money.

Maybe it doesn't go into the "Melnyk is cheap" pile, but it also doesn't prove he isn't either.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

People should be allowed to air their grievances today of all days no?

Is it Festivus already?

 

[Cosmix]

Really? Were you following him on a regular basis in Vancouver? How come he was still producing high 3rd line numbers? How come everyone in BC (and Quebec) were (and are) still in love with him? How come he had 11 pts in 20 pts down the stretch with Ottawa and then a very respectable playoffs performance?

awesome

People in BC loved him for what he did in the past, not what he was trending toward. Burrows stats were deteriorating. See Alexandre Burrows hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com
Right Wing
Born Apr 11 1981 -- Pincourt, PQ
Height 6.01 -- Weight 197 -- Shoots L
--- Regular Season --- ---- Playoffs ----
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000-01 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 63 16 14 30 105 10 2 1 3 8
2001-02 Shawinigan Cataractes QMJHL 64 35 35 70 184 12 9 11 20 34
2002-03 Greenville Grrrowl ECHL 53 9 17 26 201 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Baton Rouge Kingfish ECHL 13 4 2 6 64 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Columbia Inferno ECHL 64 29 44 73 194 4 2 0 2 28
2003-04 Manitoba Moose AHL 2 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
2004-05 Columbia Inferno ECHL 4 5 1 6 4 -- -- -- -- --
2004-05 Manitoba Moose AHL 72 9 17 26 107 14 0 3 3 37
2005-06 Manitoba Moose AHL 33 12 18 30 57 13 6 7 13 27
2005-06 Vancouver Canucks NHL 43 7 5 12 61 -- -- -- -- --
2006-07 Vancouver Canucks NHL 81 3 6 9 93 11 1 0 1 14
2007-08 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 12 19 31 179 -- -- -- -- --
2008-09 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 28 23 51 150 10 3 1 4 20
2009-10 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 35 32 67 121 12 3 3 6 22
2010-11 Vancouver Canucks NHL 72 26 22 48 77 25 9 8 17 34
2011-12 Vancouver Canucks NHL 80 28 24 52 90 5 1 0 1 7
2012-13 Vancouver Canucks NHL 47 13 11 24 54 4 2 1 3 6
2013-14 Vancouver Canucks NHL 49 5 10 15 71 -- -- -- -- --
2014-15 Vancouver Canucks NHL 70 18 15 33 68 3 0 2 2 21
2015-16 Vancouver Canucks NHL 79 9 13 22 49 -- -- -- -- --
2016-17 Vancouver Canucks NHL 55 9 11 20 53 -- -- -- -- --
2016-17 Ottawa Senators NHL 20 6 5 11 9 15 0 5 5 18
2017-18 Ottawa Senators NHL 71 6 8 14 59 -- -- -- -- --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHL Totals 913 205 204 409 1134 85 19 20 39 142

 

[topshelf15]

McCormick is terrible though, how he has a 1-way deal is beyond me lmao.

Come on now he isnt that bad,and his one year 600k deal ....Ant hills man

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dean Brown said on TSN1200 that the Senators may be looking at bringing him back in a coaching role of some kind. Sounded more like speculation but wouldn't be surprising and we did it before with Luke.

 

[armani]

McCormick is terrible though, how he has a 1-way deal is beyond me lmao.

Minimum wage body who can be sent down and nobody would pick him up. Depletes El Cheapo's wealth bit by bit. Win-win.

 

[jbeck5]

In fairness to Dorion, I don't think that anyone could have predicted how fast Burrows would deteriorate. Most guys age slowly, but Burrows just fell off a cliff last season. It was very similar to the way Craig Anderson just suddenly started looking old and slow seemingly overnight.

Regarding Burrows' extension, keep in mind that he had a NTC in Vancouver. The extension is what motivated him to waive it. Had Burrows hit free agency last summer someone would have signed him to a similar deal. As contract mistakes go, this one is pretty minor...

He fell off a cliff last season only if you only watch sens games. He had a cinderella start the first year, then in his second year he continued his decline that started a few years earlier in vancouver.

His totals went from:

67 in 82
48 in 72
52 in 80
24 in 47
15 in 49
Basically went from a first liner to a third liner in a handful of years.
33 in 70 (slight bounce back year after feeling pressure of decline)
22 in 79 (now he's basically a 4th liner and soon expected out of the league)
20 in 55 (we trade for him)
Cinderella start with ottawa
14 in 71 (some sens fans go "woahh he fell off a cliff") no he didn't. He's been steadily declining a line every couple years for almost a decade...

 

[Xspyrit]

On this one... not sure it really supports the "Melnyk is cheap" argument. We save 833,333 but lose a roster player. We likely replace from within with a cheap player, but the actual savings of that roster spot are negligible. It was about moving on from an older player, not saving money.

Max McCormick has 1 year left at 650 000$, Burrows also had 1 year. AB would have played pretty much the same role that MM is going to play. Therefore I have him replacing Burrows

Melnyk saves 1 016 666$ this season, but will have a 833 333$ dead cost next year. At the end of the day, budget saves ~180K$ but like you said it’s more to continue the youth movement

Edit : lol you ended up saying the same thing 2 posts later

 

[DrEasy]

Even if Dahlen busts, it's still a bad trade.

To put it a different way, Dahlen was worth a $20 bill. Burrows was worth a $10. If Benning takes that $20 and burns it, we still paid $20 for a $10.

We could've gotten something better than Burrows for that kid.

Stop being irrational!

 

[Xspyrit]

I was told he was still a useful player.

Well, he was certainly not as bad as it was made out to be on this board... I dunno, it depends if you give some credibility to this ratings, but it seems to make a lot of sense, particularly when you look at the players at the top and at the bottom. It's not just looking at Corsi but at pretty much everything.

NHL Player Ratings, NHL Player Rankings

Reading the Sens board, I would have expected him to be dead last on that list.

He should have been acquired purely as a rental for some future consideration. Not Dahlen.

Rest of your post was good but I don't think this part is realistic. There is no way Burrows could have been had for future considerations. No way Vancouver let him go for that price to begin with. Some other teams were probably trying to acquire him, but unfortunately Dorion had to be the "richest" man out there

McCormick is terrible though, how he has a 1-way deal is beyond me lmao.

Copy/paste of what I said earlier in the thread :

I find it strange that people see McCormick contract as a problem... 1 year, 1 way at 650 000$... If it was a 2-way he would still make 200-250 000$ in the AHL

If he is used properly as the 13th forward it’s actually perfect. I’d rather have him play a few minutes a night and/or sit in the press box when everyone is healthy than a guy like Chlapik or White for example. Max is actually a decent depth forward who brings a lot of energy and can get under the opposition skin. Can even chip in a bit of offense. He’s actually the one replacing the role Burrows would have to play. So the Sens actually save a bit of money there, and the Burrows cost is budgeted on 2 years.

Let's not make another storm in a glass of water with this file...

Stop being irrational!

Not answering post #131?

 

[Xspyrit]

People in BC loved him for what he did in the past, not what he was trending toward. Burrows stats were deteriorating.

I use Hockey reference, you have a lot more stats and less calculations to do. BC people still loved Burrows after he stopped being a top-6 forward. And they still do. Same here in Qc, everybody absolutely love the guy

Per Game
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP		G	A	PTS	GC	PIM	S	G	A	PTS	GC	TGF	PGF	TGA	PGA	+/-		OPS	DPS	PS	Att.	Made	Miss	Pct.
2005-06	24	VAN	NHL	43		0.16	0.12	0.28	0.12	1.42	1.14	7	5	12	5	16	1	17	7	5		0.6	0.7	1.3
2006-07	25	VAN	NHL	81		0.04	0.07	0.11	0.04	1.15	0.86	3	6	9	3	16	1	38	16	-7		-1.5	1.0	-0.5
2007-08	26	VAN	NHL	82		0.15	0.23	0.38	0.14	2.18	1.54	13	20	33	13	41	1	56	27	11		1.2	1.9	3.1
2008-09	27	VAN	NHL	82		0.34	0.28	0.62	0.26	1.83	2.13	30	23	53	23	68	1	67	23	23		4.3	2.3	6.6	6	1	5	16.7
2009-10	28	VAN	NHL	82		0.43	0.39	0.82	0.33	1.48	2.55	38	34	72	30	94	11	63	14	34		6.8	2.7	9.5	1	1	0	100.0
2010-11	29	VAN	NHL	72		0.36	0.31	0.67	0.27	1.07	2.11	29	23	52	22	70	8	46	10	26		4.6	2.4	6.9	2	2	0	100.0
2011-12	30	VAN	NHL	80		0.35	0.30	0.65	0.27	1.13	2.48	32	26	58	25	80	17	51	12	24		4.7	2.5	7.2	10	6	4	60.0
2012-13	31	VAN	NHL	47		0.28	0.23	0.51	0.21	1.15	2.98	25	21	46	19	46	10	34	13	15		1.7	1.7	3.4	7	1	6	14.3
2013-14	32	VAN	NHL	49		0.10	0.20	0.31	0.11	1.45	2.12	6	11	17	6	29	12	33	7	-9		-0.2	0.8	0.6	5	1	4	20.0
2014-15	33	VAN	NHL	70		0.26	0.21	0.47	0.20	0.97	2.07	20	16	36	15	52	13	47	8	0		2.7	1.1	3.9	1	1	0	100.0
2015-16	34	VAN	NHL	79		0.11	0.16	0.28	0.11	0.62	1.71	10	14	24	9	32	10	51	15	-13		0.1	1.0	1.1	7	3	4	42.9
2016-17	35	TOT	NHL	75		0.20	0.21	0.41	0.17	0.83	1.91	17	17	34	14	47	3	55	14	3		2.1	1.5	3.6	3	0	3	0.0
2016-17	35	VAN	NHL	55		0.16	0.20	0.36	0.14	0.96	2.07	10	12	22	9	33	1	49	14	-3		1.0	1.0	1.9	3	0	3	0.0
2016-17	35	OTT	NHL	20		0.30	0.25	0.55	0.23	0.45	1.45	7	5	12	5	14	2	6	0	6		1.1	0.6	1.7	3	0	3	0.0
2017-18	36	OTT	NHL	71		0.08	0.11	0.20	0.08	0.83	1.27	6	8	14	5	27	9	36	9	-8		-0.3	0.6	0.4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

-
He started being a top-6 forward in 2008-09 and stopped in 2013. He produced 3rd line numbers the next 4 years (ranging from 23 pts to 39 pts paces). It's only last season that his production dropped to 4th line numbers (and still better than many 4th liners with a 16 pts pace). We acquired him when he was still a good 3rd liner and his play/production was good at first in Ottawa, until he got injured in the playoffs.

He fell off a cliff last season only if you only watch sens games. He had a cinderella start the first year, then in his second year he continued his decline that started a few years earlier in vancouver.
....
14 in 71 (some sens fans go "woahh he fell off a cliff") no he didn't. He's been steadily declining a line every couple years for almost a decade...

Well, not quite... Do you only watch Sens games? Or maybe you're just looking at his career year and ignoring the rest, then yeah it's been 8 years since he scored 35 goals and had 67 pts

But Larionov is absolutely right. He fell off a cliff last year in terms of play and production. Nobody said he was still a top-6 forward. That's not where he fell from.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Dean Brown said on TSN1200 that the Senators may be looking at bringing him back in a coaching role of some kind. Sounded more like speculation but wouldn't be surprising and we did it before with Luke.

Jesus f***.

 

[Cosmix]

Well, he was certainly not as bad as it was made out to be on this board... I dunno, it depends if you give some credibility to this ratings, but it seems to make a lot of sense, particularly when you look at the players at the top and at the bottom. It's not just looking at Corsi but at pretty much everything.

NHL Player Ratings, NHL Player Rankings

Reading the Sens board, I would have expected him to be dead last on that list.



Rest of your post was good but I don't think this part is realistic. There is no way Burrows could have been had for future considerations. No way Vancouver let him go for that price to begin with. Some other teams were probably trying to acquire him, but unfortunately Dorion had to be the "richest" man out there



Copy/paste of what I said earlier in the thread :

I find it strange that people see McCormick contract as a problem... 1 year, 1 way at 650 000$... If it was a 2-way he would still make 200-250 000$ in the AHL

If he is used properly as the 13th forward it’s actually perfect. I’d rather have him play a few minutes a night and/or sit in the press box when everyone is healthy than a guy like Chlapik or White for example. Max is actually a decent depth forward who brings a lot of energy and can get under the opposition skin. Can even chip in a bit of offense. He’s actually the one replacing the role Burrows would have to play. So the Sens actually save a bit of money there, and the Burrows cost is budgeted on 2 years.

Let's not make another storm in a glass of water with this file...



Not answering post #131?

I prefer the phrase “tempest in a tea pot”.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Jesus ****.

I thought you'd be the first to throw your support behind it!

 

[Cosmix]

Dean Brown said on TSN1200 that the Senators may be looking at bringing him back in a coaching role of some kind. Sounded more like speculation but wouldn't be surprising and we did it before with Luke.

I wonder where Dean Brown pulled that out of.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I wonder where Dean Brown pulled that out of.

Im gonna guess his ass, but you never know. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he cant get on with another team. People slam Burrows which is fine since he sucks now and has made a few poor choices in his time, but he's thought of highly by those that have played with or coached him. We could do worse i suppose.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I wonder where Dean Brown pulled that out of.

He's a turd but he's pretty plugged in with the team.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 

[Zorf]

McCormick is terrible though, how he has a 1-way deal is beyond me lmao.

Randy Lee. That's how.

When McCormick was signed, Randy said that he's the type of player that you win with.

Ever since that day I have wondered exactly how Randy got to be A/GM.