Burns and Karlsson VS Tavares and Matthews

[Sojourn]

Pretty much every top PP nowadays runs the 1-3-1. San Jose will definitely be going against the grain with their composition.

Oh, I agree, but would it surprise you if they were very successful doing that?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I understand you - as a Pens fan - probably don't have the highest opinion of paid professionals seeing as Malkin was excluded from a top-100 players of all time list, but their opinions are far more reasonable than what you read on here.

I think you're generalizing here. Some media types certainly have opinions that are well informed, but to say that all media types, just because they're paid to cover the sport, have more reasonable takes than people on here is misguided.

Perfect example is one of Pittsburgh's local media types. He didn't even know what the term F3 was referring to when players were trying to explain to him what each player's responsibility was in the defensive zone. He's a "paid professional" who votes on these sorts of things, yet doesn't even have the most rudimentary understanding of hockey terms, but you'd place his opinion above people on here?

And he's not an isolated case. Look no further than Steve Simmons. Would you honestly argue that guy knows more than your average HF poster?

 

[LeafsNation75]

And he's not an isolated case. Look no further than Steve Simmons. Would you honestly argue that guy knows more than your average HF poster?

Among Leafs fans there is none of us who trust anything he says. Besides him writing that false story about Phil Kessel getting a Hot Dog everyday from a vendor outside his condo in Toronto, he also once wrote a story after the 2006-2007 season which said Mats Sundin needed career ending back surgery and that never happened. Hell even Keith Olbermanm once called Simmons his "The Worst Person In The Sports World" when he had a show on ESPN.

 

[glucker]

Karlsson wss injured too. What's you're point
These are defensman who score more than Matthews
What are you trying to argue with this p/60
Karlsson and burns are bettrr at their position than Matthews is at his
In the playoffs and the regular season
Injured or healthy
Even an injured karlsson has done better than matthews

You clearly have a strong bias for matthees you can't looks it objectively

Karlsson had 62 points in 71 games to Matthews’s 63 in 62.

You sure you’re the one being objective here?

As for points per 60, it’s a stat used to show how much a player scores, not per game, but by hour played. It helps equalize for toi/g

 

[glucker]

The playing injured argument really needs to go. This is the NHL, man. Players play injured. If he's healthy enough to play, he's healthy enough. Period. Do you think other good players in the league didn't deal with that too?

I think in Matthew’s case, the stretch where he came back from the first injury, only to be benched for the same injury 10 games later is worth mentioning, because of how different he looked as a player.

But even scrapping that, his ppg was higher than either player. I just had it in there to note that I believe his ppg will be even higher this season. If healthy, I think he can put up 90+.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think in Matthew’s case, the stretch where he came back from the first injury, only to be benched for the same injury 10 games later is worth mentioning, because of how different he looked as a player.

But even scrapping that, his ppg was higher than either player. I just had it in there to note that I believe his ppg will be even higher this season. If healthy, I think he can put up 90+.

Matthews second injury was that concussion when he collided with Morgan Rielly during a game last December in Pittsburgh, where as his first injury was with his back.

 

[Peggy]

Karlsson had 62 points in 71 games to Matthews’s 63 in 62.

You sure you’re the one being objective here?

As for points per 60, it’s a stat used to show how much a player scores, not per game, but by hour played. It helps equalize for toi/g

Karlsson also had 71 points the season before and 82 the year before
Also is a defensman

If you're a hockey fan why do I have to explain this to you?.

I'm aware what per 60 is. It's been explained already. It's a weak argument. How Matthews fans use it, as a whst if and ifs and buts don't work in reality

 

[glucker]

Karlsson also had 71 points the season before and 82 the year before
Also is a defensman

If you're a hockey fan why do I have to explain this to you?.

I'm aware what per 60 is. It's been explained already. It's a weak argument. How Matthews fans use it, as a whst if and ifs and buts don't work in reality

Ok, so Karlsson outperformed Matthews before he made the nhl, and in his rookie year. Cool.

He may be a defense man, but his coach trusts him with fewer defensive zone starts than Babcock does with Matthews.

So as it stands Matthews is currently the better offensive player, and as a forward, more trusted by his coach defensively.

P/60 isn’t a what if... it just is. Every minute he spends on the ice he is far more dangerous than Burns or Karlsson.

 

[glucker]

Matthews second injury was that concussion when he collided with Morgan Rielly during a game last December in Pittsburgh, where as his first injury was with his back.

Hmm, I guess I misremembered. Nonetheless, he was a shadow of himself coming back from that first injury.

 

[Peggy]

Ok, so Karlsson outperformed Matthews before he made the nhl, and in his rookie year. Cool.

He may be a defense man, but his coach trusts him with fewer defensive zone starts than Babcock does with Matthews.

So as it stands Matthews is currently the better offensive player, and as a forward, more trusted by his coach defensively.

P/60 isn’t a what if... it just is. Every minute he spends on the ice he is far more dangerous than Burns or Karlsson.

I'm good with the arguing
It's pointless to try to argue with people who think being I hired means you're better
You look at all the excuses for Matthews, but never for the other players
Karlsson was injured and still played and still was more productive as a defensman
And your argument is "if Matthews didn't get injured and played more minutes" well none of that happened so it doesn't exist

Matthews is easily the most over rated player in the league
It doesn't matter if you were a Norris winner and scored more points
Matthews is better because potential/lpgic

 

[LeafsNation75]

Hmm, I guess I misremembered. Nonetheless, he was a shadow of himself coming back from that first injury.

I remember he scored in his first games back against the Canadiens, Rangers and Predators. So it's not like he went into a long slump because of the games he missed.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Matthews scored at a higher pace with tougher usage, and fewer minutes per game.

Matthews>>>Burns

Id sure hope so considering Matthews is a f***ing forward

 

[Atomos2]

Id sure hope so considering Matthews is a ****ing forward

Is that why he has tougher usage than a ****ing defenceman???

 

[nucks88]

I'm not worried about anything because Matthews will soon sign his next contract with the Leafs.

I imagine he will but nothing is 100% certain...

 

[glucker]

I'm good with the arguing
It's pointless to try to argue with people who think being I hired means you're better
You look at all the excuses for Matthews, but never for the other players
Karlsson was injured and still played and still was more productive as a defensman
And your argument is "if Matthews didn't get injured and played more minutes" well none of that happened so it doesn't exist

Matthews is easily the most over rated player in the league
It doesn't matter if you were a Norris winner and scored more points
Matthews is better because potential/lpgic

... I think we’re done here

 

[glucker]

I remember he scored in his first games back against the Canadiens, Rangers and Predators. So it's not like he went into a long slump because of the games he missed.

First 16 games - 19 points- 1.19 ppg
10 games after first injury - 7 points - .7 ppg
27 games after 2nd injury - 24 points - .89 ppg
9 games after 3rd injury - 13 points. -1.44 ppg

That stretch after the first injury was his worst by a good margin. And it was plain to see while he was playing, that he was not himself.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Id sure hope so considering Matthews is a ****ing forward

The fact we’re comparing point totals of a forward va defenseman shows how much Leaf fans are grasping at staws. It’s not close

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs took the first game of this comparison and they didn’t even have one of the guys in this poll. Tavares and Matthews have both been excellent for the Leafs. Karlsson is still struggling to adjust to San Jose, while JT has adapted immediately.

It’s early, but nearly a quarter way through the season the Leafs two #1 Centres have been more dominant than the Sharks two #1 Defensemen.

 

[rent free]

Leafs took the first game of this comparison and they didn’t even have one of the guys in this poll. Tavares and Matthews have both been excellent for the Leafs. Karlsson is still struggling to adjust to San Jose, while JT has adapted immediately.

It’s early, but nearly a quarter way through the season the Leafs two #1 Centres have been more dominant than the Sharks two #1 Defensemen.

Solid bump.

 

[koyvoo]

Leafs took the first game of this comparison and they didn’t even have one of the guys in this poll. Tavares and Matthews have both been excellent for the Leafs. Karlsson is still struggling to adjust to San Jose, while JT has adapted immediately.

It’s early, but nearly a quarter way through the season the Leafs two #1 Centres have been more dominant than the Sharks two #1 Defensemen.

I’d suggest that it’s possible that if Tavares was recovering from losing half his heel, if he and his wife had lost a child to miscarriage and if his wife had been cyberbullied in the recent past, he might also have a tougher transition to a new team. Possibly.

 

[Halla]

yeah sure. the sharks duo handily win it. yet the leafs are 13-6, while the sharks are 10-7-3

JT+AM: 23g/39pts in 30 combined games

sharks duo: 3g/30pts in 40 combined games

yeah yeah they are dman (who play like forwards)

gimme the pair of 1C every day of the week

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I’d suggest that it’s possible that if Tavares was recovering from losing half his heel, if he and his wife had lost a child to miscarriage and if his wife had been cyberbullied in the recent past, he might also have a tougher transition to a new team. Possibly.

The miscarriage was terrible and if the alleged harassment is true then that’s even worse.

The surgery however was over a year ago now. I’m not sure that he’s still recovering after playing nearly a full season with the Sens and having a long offseason to recuperate.

 

[Halla]

I’d suggest that it’s possible that if Tavares was recovering from losing half his heel, if he and his wife had lost a child to miscarriage and if his wife had been cyberbullied in the recent past, he might also have a tougher transition to a new team. Possibly.

off ice issues? really?

JT has isles fans calling him a snake, burning his jersey etc. Came home to the biggest market in the league under intense scrutiny and has simply dominated. 12g/23pts/+6 in 19 games

 

[The List Of Jericho]

HF wrong about a Leaf based topic...shocker.

 

[koyvoo]

The miscarriage was terrible and if the alleged harassment is true then that’s even worse.

The surgery however was over a year ago now. I’m not sure that he’s still recovering after playing nearly a full season with the Sens and having a long offseason to recuperate.

Well he might never fully recover from that type of injury. That’s the issue. I think tonight he looked fined, but generally, at least up until now, he’s seemed to have less mobility than pre-injury.