News Article: Bullying and backstabbing: the Ottawa Senators are pro sport's biggest mess

[GrantLemons]

I get saving money during the lean times but he started that 5 seasons ago when we had a solid core of young talent. It was managements inability to stay the coarse and make smart moves which led to an imbalanced roster with no leadership. And then they were promoted?

It's just another notch on the belt of horrid, uneducated organizational decisions made by the owner. All the while there has been no qualified, veteran hockey executive evaluating the performance of our bumbling rookie GM and his shoe string staff.

It's literal insanity. The team isn't struggling because of the "challenges of this market", they're struggling because it has easily the most incompetent front office in all of pro sports.

"Challenges of this market" should hinder your revenue, not crater it into oblivion. Only extremely poor management will do that.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

In regards to your last comment, you lose a lot of credibility by saying things like the bolded. In one fell swoop you've waved your hand away at every argument other than spending being issues while many have outlined that's not even at the top of the list. Budget teams can be run properly within their bubble too, it doesn't have to be doomed to amateur hour.

Could you point me to an example, of another comparable team to Ottawa, budget-wise?

 

[ksens]

Could you point me to an example, of another comparable team to Ottawa, budget-wise?

The Business Of Hockey

There are several teams in and around the Sens in terms of revenue who are competitive. Calgary. Colorado. Nashville. Heck, look at our expansion cousins in Tampa ... major difference is that their owner has liquidity, hires a competent front office and lets them do their job, and at the same time is a developer who is making money on ancillary real estate around the arena.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Could you point me to an example, of another comparable team to Ottawa, budget-wise?

That's irrelevant to the Ottawa Senators and how they operate.

 

[supsens]

The Business Of Hockey

There are several teams in and around the Sens in terms of revenue who are competitive. Calgary. Colorado. Nashville. Heck, look at our expansion cousins in Tampa ... major difference is that their owner has liquidity, hires a competent front office and lets them do their job, and at the same time is a developer who is making money on ancillary real estate around the arena.

Lol yes look at Tampa, here’s a rink you don’t have to build oh and here is a ton of free land to develope that we will throw in if you buy the team.
If EM was given a rink downtown then the land around it as a throw in...well that’s not really compairable

 

[topshelf15]

Lol yes look at Tampa, here’s a rink you don’t have to build oh and here is a ton of free land to develope that we will throw in if you buy the team.
If EM was given a rink downtown then the land around it as a throw in...well that’s not really compairable

Maybe he should just sell then.....Why keep the team if he cant do anything with it??

 

[BatherSeason]

Lol yes look at Tampa, here’s a rink you don’t have to build oh and here is a ton of free land to develope that we will throw in if you buy the team.
If EM was given a rink downtown then the land around it as a throw in...well that’s not really compairable

Didn't Melnyk also inherit a building he didnt have to build?

 

[supsens]

Didn't Melnyk also inherit a building he didnt have to build?

He bought it

 

[supsens]

Maybe he should just sell then.....Why keep the team if he cant do anything with it??

Ask him. I have no idea what that has to do with what goes on in tampa.

 

[Sens]

He bought it

When you buy something with credit you don’t actually own it...

 

[supsens]

When you buy something with credit you don’t actually own it...

Lol cool. So what does that matter? Is that like a 'so there' type thing? I'm not sure what your getting at or what the point is. If Melnyk was given an arena downtown then given all the land around it for his own personal fortune,I am sure then we could compare situations to how good Tampa fans have it. But thats not the hand that was dealt.
It's funny you guys will argue anything.
Whats the problem this time?
Do I wish he would spend more money? I sure do, but pointing out teams that get to rob the tax payers blind as how things should be is crazy talk.

 

[Acidrain66]

Lol cool. So what does that matter? Is that like a 'so there' type thing? I'm not sure what your getting at or what the point is. If Melnyk was given an arena downtown then given all the land around it for his own personal fortune,I am sure then we could compare situations to how good Tampa fans have it. But thats not the hand that was dealt.
It's funny you guys will argue anything.
Whats the problem this time?
Do I wish he would spend more money? I sure do, but pointing out teams that get to rob the tax payers blind as how things should be is crazy talk.

Well it seems to me from what you stated, he should sell.

 

[ksens]

Lol yes look at Tampa, here’s a rink you don’t have to build oh and here is a ton of free land to develope that we will throw in if you buy the team.
If EM was given a rink downtown then the land around it as a throw in...well that’s not really compairable

That is all 100% patently false.

The rink in Tampa was in place long before Vinik bought the team, and it was originally built with both public and private funds. He acquired the arena and some land when he acquired the team for a pretty good deal. You know, exactly like what Melnyk did.

The difference is that Vinik has money and actual business sense. So he bought (not "free") more land around the Tampa waterfront, created a JV with Bill Gates' investment firm and built Water Street Tampa | Waterfront Lifestyle | Tampa, FLaround the arena. And he doesn't meddle in the running of the team, he's busy doing what he does best - investing; the team and the arena are just an anchor for Water Street.

Meanwhile after being dealt a similar hand Melnyk has pissed away the ability to build a new arena and real estate development, is in court with the partners he tried to use to build that development, and has angered every single local and federal politician involved, essentially tuning himself in to a pariah in this city.

But sure, pretend that Vinik was born on third base with the Lightning and Melnyk could have done the same if only he had been handed a free arena and land if you want to. Just know that you are making it up.

 

[Stylizer1]

That is all 100% patently false.

The rink in Tampa was in place long before Vinik bought the team, and it was originally built with both public and private funds. He acquired the arena and some land when he acquired the team for a pretty good deal. You know, exactly like what Melnyk did.

The difference is that Vinik has money and actual business sense. So he bought (not "free") more land around the Tampa waterfront, created a JV with Bill Gates' investment firm and built Water Street Tampa | Waterfront Lifestyle | Tampa, FLaround the arena. And he doesn't meddle in the running of the team, he's busy doing what he does best - investing; the team and the arena are just an anchor for Water Street.

Meanwhile after being dealt a similar hand Melnyk has pissed away the ability to build a new arena and real estate development, is in court with the partners he tried to use to build that development, and has angered every single local and federal politician involved, essentially tuning himself in to a pariah in this city.

But sure, pretend that Vinik was born on third base with the Lightning and Melnyk could have done the same if only he had been handed a free arena and land if you want to. Just know that you are making it up.

Melnyk did want to build a soccer stadium/MLS team, hotel, and casino but the city said no.

 

[topshelf15]

Ask him. I have no idea what that has to do with what goes on in tampa.

You compared the two....TB does actually spend money to ice a good team,and hires good people to run the team....EM cuts everything to the bone and spends the least possible ,then wonders why fans or corporate sponsors arent lining up ,to support the team.....The team is in trouble because of him and nobody else

 

[Larionov]

Melnyk did want to build a soccer stadium/MLS team, hotel, and casino but the city said no.

Given all that has transpired since, it's worth wondering what would have happened had the city said yes. Would it actually have been built? If so, would he still own it, or would he have sold it off?

 

[Stylizer1]

Given all that has transpired since, it's worth wondering what would have happened had the city said yes. Would it actually have been built? If so, would he still own it, or would he have sold it off?

if he were able to build a casino he would have been all set. I don't think the franchise would be in the state it's in. Probably would have had to bring on a partner but for a casino it would be too valuable.

 

[The Lewler]

if he were able to build a casino he would have been all set. I don't think the franchise would be in the state it's in. Probably would have had to bring on a partner but for a casino it would be too valuable.

I tend to agree. The casino was going to be his new revenue generator and another major appreciating asset.

The casino debacle was one of the first times Melnyk started talking viability and finances.

 

[supsens]

That is all 100% patently false.

But sure, pretend that Vinik was born on third base with the Lightning and Melnyk could have done the same if only he had been handed a free arena and land if you want to. Just know that you are making it up.

He didn’t acquire the arena Hillsborough county owns it but way to tell me I’m 100% false.

The land he bought was a throw in when he bought the team, (the only reason he bought the team) the rest of the land he bought came with some pretty sweet deals from the port authority and some large investments from others.

Melnyk tried to basically do the same with his area and the city fought him instead oh helping

 

[supsens]

Given all that has transpired since, it's worth wondering what would have happened had the city said yes. Would it actually have been built? If so, would he still own it, or would he have sold it off?

Either way the sens would be way way better off

 

[supsens]

Bryden and Melnyk both had one thing in common, they purchased the team, arena and land on a credit card. The hope is that any new owner would have the financial assets to buy the team outright, thus eliminating the massive debt payments which have been our demise since inception.

You do understand almost no one buys teams with cash, it’s all funding and ownership groups, people worth 1-2 billion dollars do not have that type of cash laying around.
They have it invested in land holdings, business and other revenue generating projects.

 

[Stylizer1]

You do understand almost no one buys teams with cash, it’s all funding and ownership groups, people worth 1-2 billion dollars do not have that type of cash laying around.
They have it invested in land holdings, business and other revenue generating projects.

At the time Melnyk was a billionaire who got the team and rink for 100 mill or so. How he has accumulated so much debt on top of that is astonishingly bad management of an asset.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The Business Of Hockey

There are several teams in and around the Sens in terms of revenue who are competitive. Calgary. Colorado. Nashville. Heck, look at our expansion cousins in Tampa ... major difference is that their owner has liquidity, hires a competent front office and lets them do their job, and at the same time is a developer who is making money on ancillary real estate around the arena.

I would only say that Calgary is comparable, as they too take in CDN dollars as revenue. and pay the bulk of their expenses, in US dollars.

Not to mention tax rates, but Tampa and Nashville have the HUGE advantage attracting and keeping players with Florida having a maximum marginal income tax rate of 0.00% and Tennessee having a 5% maximum marginal income tax rate.

You just cannot compare a zero or even a 5% tax rate, with what NHLers pay in Ontario

5.05% on the first $43,906 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $43,907, +
11.16% on the next $62,187, +
12.16% on the next $70,000, +
13.16 % on the amount over $220,000

 

[supsens]

At the time Melnyk was a billionaire who got the team and rink for 100 mill or so. How he has accumulated so much debt on top of that is astonishingly bad management of an asset.

The rink was sold out for years the ticket prices could not support a NHL payroll, The TV contracts are now the only reason the team is still around.
You should feel lucky some dude funded massive loses over the years.
The funny part is no other city in North America would have refused To help fund and get that lebrenton deal off the ground yet everyone wants to hang some dude for not wanting to build them a giant downtown out of his own pocket.
The city seriously fumbled the ball on that one

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

That's irrelevant to the Ottawa Senators and how they operate.

It would be foolish to ignore the federal and provincial tax rates, players in Ottawa are subject to, and how that affects Ottawa ability to attract UFAs of even re-sign their own pending UFAs.

For example, Matt Duchene is now subject to a 5% Maximum State income tax, in Nashville.

While in Ottawa he was paying 5.05% on the first $43,906 of taxable income, + 9.15% on the next $43,907, + 11.16% on the next $62,187, + 12.16% on the next $70,000, +13.16 % on the amount over $220,000.

Does anyone not think that players look at these differences when they have the ability to sign somewhere long term?