News Article: Bullying and backstabbing: the Ottawa Senators are pro sport's biggest mess

[Sweatred]

Duschene’s Nashville property acquisition a few years back would let him claim his upcoming 2019 bonus money in a zero income state. I bet he couldn’t care less about renting it.

 

[Stylizer1]

Players personal life are not for public consumption. Duchene never asked to be traded to the Sens or else. He always had Nashville on his mind. Whether or not he tells the media what they want to here is his business. He doesn't have to be honest he just has to do what's best for him and his family. Fans are really the least of his priorities.

 

[Engineer]

Duschene’s Nashville property acquisition a few years back would let him claim his upcoming 2019 bonus money in a zero income state. I bet he couldn’t care less about renting it.

Nah, tax man wouldn't accept that.

You're taxed based on your location of residence, with his new deal in Nashville, if he has already moved there he'd be claiming NSH as his tax location, if he is still residing in Ottawa, it would have to be Ontario tax rates.

 

[Stylizer1]

Ottawa was thrown into the three team trade because Nashville and Colorado couldn't make a deal work.

 

[Sweatred]

Nah, tax man wouldn't accept that.

You're taxed based on your location of residence, with his new deal in Nashville, if he has already moved there he'd be claiming NSH as his tax location, if he is still residing in Ottawa, it would have to be Ontario tax rates.

It is based on residence but your residence is far from “where you play”. Signing bonuses are relatively new and I would suspect that type of purchase has become extremely common (Nashville, Florida etc).

It is worth millions of dollars a year to some of these guys to claim a residence in zero tax state.

 

[Engineer]

It is based on residence but your residence is far from “where you play”. Signing bonuses are relatively new and I would suspect that type of purchase has become extremely common (Nashville, Florida etc).

It is worth millions of dollars a year to some of these guys to claim a residence in zero tax state.

They have to prove their location of residence, if they play 41 games in Ottawa and claim they reside in Nashville, the CRA is going to investigate and send you a tax bill.

 

[Micklebot]

It is based on residence but your residence is far from “where you play”. Signing bonuses are relatively new and I would suspect that type of purchase has become extremely common (Nashville, Florida etc).

It is worth millions of dollars a year to some of these guys to claim a residence in zero tax state.

Taxation for canadians residingvabroad is more complicated than just having a condo in florida and claming no tax.

You can be a non resident a deemed resident or a factual resident depending on your unique circumstances.

He would likely have to break ties with his ontario residence to be a non resident but i could be wrong. Idk if CRA would consider a athletes contract as a temporary relocation or not. If he were to move back to canada immediately after finishing his current deal they might view it differently than if he stayed outside canada for a while longer.

Tldr: taxes are complicated

 

[Sweatred]

The specific are hard track because players don’t have to share their tax records. Either way, I believe the recent “signing bonus” interest is more about taxation and less about upfront money, interest opportunities, lock out protection etc.

 

[Stylizer1]

Taxation for canadians residingvabroad is more complicated than just having a condo in florida and claming no tax.

You can be a non resident a deemed resident or a factual resident depending on your unique circumstances.

He would likely have to break ties with his ontario residence to be a non resident but i could be wrong. Idk if CRA would consider a athletes contract as a temporary relocation or not. If he were to move back to canada immediately after finishing his current deal they might view it differently than if he stayed outside canada for a while longer.

Tldr: taxes are complicated

Would it apply to him if he rented while in Ottawa and owned property in Nashville?

 

[Micklebot]

The specific are hard track because players don’t have to share their tax records. Either way, I believe the recent “signing bonus” interest is more about taxation and less about upfront money, interest opportunities, lock out protection etc.

The taxation loophole mostly applies to american citizens playing in Canada who live in a low tax state. This is because americans pay american tax regardless of where they live but bonuses are taxed at 10% by Canada as part of a tax treaty

There is more to it but you can google A Matthews deal and find some hits explaining it.

 

[Micklebot]

Would it apply to him if he rented while in Ottawa and owned property in Nashville?

As a canadian living in Canada on 31 dec (ie he rents a residence) my assumption is CRA would consider him a factual resident of Ontario. I assume he resides here 183 or more days a year based on the season and his family living here.

Again i am no expert so my opinion is of low credibility on the subj.

 

[BloodRedArmy]

On the topic of these "fair offers" etc.

Even if Ottawa offered Stone, EK and Duchene more than they eventually settled for elsewhere, it seems clear to me that players, given the choice (UFAgency) do not want to play here. My guess (I have no link/ substantiating evidence other than what seems like COMMON SENSE) is that the owner and management group are the problem.

This is their job. If you could do your job for a complete loose cannon arsehole micromanager, or a friendly, unmeddling and hands off boss for the same (or possibly even more) pay, what would you choose?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

As a canadian living in Canada on 31 dec (ie he rents a residence) my assumption is CRA would consider him a factual resident of Ontario. I assume he resides here 183 or more days a year based on the season and his family living here.

Again i am no expert so my opinion is of low credibility on the subj.

I think as long as you leave in between those 183 days, you are exempt

 

[JD1]

Google

John Tavares tax rates

And look for the Forbes articles on it. They explain it very well

I'd agree with whoever's said it....getting bonus money is about taxation and it goes a long way to mitigating tax differences between states and provinces

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Anybody do the math , If we are a cap floor team on how much Melnyk can make this year?

 

[Stylizer1]

Anybody do the math , If we are a cap floor team on how much Melnyk can make this year?

This is why fans should boycott all things CTC related.

The league is paying him which will keep him profitable.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Anybody do the math , If we are a cap floor team on how much Melnyk can make this year?

Rewarded while circumventing the cap floor to spend as little as possible. Gotta love it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I’m not sure I’m buying the idea that this team is going to be making money next year.

Of all the years to be turning a profit...

 

[BatherSeason]

I’m not sure I’m buying the idea that this team is going to be making money next year.

Of all the years to be turning a profit...

Melnyk will turn a profit before the team even hits the ice while continuing to destroy the brand. Disgraceful. Apathy is setting in and the boycott must continue.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not sure I’m buying the idea that this team is going to be making money next year.

Of all the years to be turning a profit...

Hard to say. Teams have a lot of fixed revenue streams; we get about 40 mil in USD from tv deals alone. I think our player salaries are currently projected at about 20 mil less than what we had typically been spending in past years.

So where will revenues suffer? Gates is the obvious one. Forbes was estimating 35 mil in gates last time they published a list, which would have been based on the season before last. That number probably drops a fair bit but revenue sharing willsoften the blow, for every dollar lost in gates we are likely to get around 30 cents extra in revenue sharing. My back of a napkin math suggests with all else staying equal, the drop in salary would combined with increase in rev share would be more than enough to make us better off in terms of operating income even if gates were cut in half.

I mean, cutting your biggest expense by 20 mil goes a long way...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Melnyk will turn a profit before the team even hits the ice while continuing to destroy the brand. Disgraceful. Apathy is setting in and the boycott must continue.

Again, I’d be surprised if the Sens turn a profit, but I’ll let your sentiment carry our little interaction here, because in the end I personally don’t really care.

Be apathetic and boycott man, keep doing you!

 

[Ice-Tray]

Hard to say. Teams have a lot of fixed revenue streams; we get about 40 mil in USD from tv deals alone. I think our player salaries are currently projected at about 20 mil less than what we had typically been spending in past years.

So where will revenues suffer? Gates is the obvious one. Forbes was estimating 35 mil in gates last time they published a list, which would have been based on the season before last. That number probably drops a fair bit but revenue sharing willsoften the blow, for every dollar lost in gates we are likely to get around 30 cents extra in revenue sharing. My back of a napkin math suggests with all else staying equal, the drop in salary would combined with increase in rev share would be more than enough to make us better off in terms of operating income even if gates were cut in half.

I mean, cutting your biggest expense by 20 mil goes a long way...

At risk of being slapped as sympathizer, defender, bot, moron, haha, I wonder if cost cutting, and any profits, are all part of funding the promised FYOUS. I personally don’t think EM is purposely trying to drive the Sens into the ground.

I’m hesitant to assume that the owner is about making a whack of cash that he will then place in his pockets., or even if this move would be allowed, or look positively on by the rest of the league owners etc...

If he’s not selling, and not over the top wealthy, the money to take a sustained run has to come from somewhere. Obviously its all just noise until we start seeing purse string loosen, or when the time comes, not loosened.

 

[supsens]

Melnyk will turn a profit before the team even hits the ice while continuing to destroy the brand. Disgraceful. Apathy is setting in and the boycott must continue.

Lol profits before the team hits the ice eh?
Please do tell where these magical profits come from
If teams like Ottawa are making these type of profits there would be no revenue sharing and the cap would be massive.

 

[coladin]

Hard to say. Teams have a lot of fixed revenue streams; we get about 40 mil in USD from tv deals alone. I think our player salaries are currently projected at about 20 mil less than what we had typically been spending in past years.

So where will revenues suffer? Gates is the obvious one. Forbes was estimating 35 mil in gates last time they published a list, which would have been based on the season before last. That number probably drops a fair bit but revenue sharing willsoften the blow, for every dollar lost in gates we are likely to get around 30 cents extra in revenue sharing. My back of a napkin math suggests with all else staying equal, the drop in salary would combined with increase in rev share would be more than enough to make us better off in terms of operating income even if gates were cut in half.

I mean, cutting your biggest expense by 20 mil goes a long way...

I think you are exactly right. Slash salaries, revenue sharing more than help offset an empty building. He is like a cockroach. Almost indestructible with the way things are setup right now

 

[ksens]

At risk of being slapped as sympathizer, defender, bot, moron, haha, I wonder if cost cutting, and any profits, are all part of funding the promised FYOUS. I personally don’t think EM is purposely trying to drive the Sens into the ground.

I’m hesitant to assume that the owner is about making a whack of cash that he will then place in his pockets., or even if this move would be allowed, or look positively on by the rest of the league owners etc...

As I tried to outline upthread, Melnyk has cash flow issues and needs the team to be running at least minimally in the black. Other owners might not care if they take a few millions in losses in a given year because they have other revenue sources associated with the team/building that cover that, but a) Melnyk doesn't have those revenue sources and b) Melnyk doesn't have the liquidity to allow this to happen.

Once you understand this all of the other decisions make sense in that light. This isn't about him lining his pockets or about driving the team in to the ground, it is about running a sports team the only way that an owner with no liquidity and no other revenue streams in a small market can operate when the team is in a downturn.

For example: he's got agents for stars demanding big contracts with up-front bonuses. Meanwhile the team on the ice and in the front office is a dumpster fire and gate and merch revenue are way down and projected to get worse. What to do? Sign some players and hope things turn around? Nope, too risky, too much chance of ending up way in the red and not being able to meet payroll. Instead we dump those players, acquire cheaper ones or draft picks and make deals that drive down your actual out of pocket salary expenses as low as possible so you end up back in a positive cash flow situation. Then slap an "Ottawa Rising" coat of paint on the whole thing and send Dorion out to fumble around at the microphone proclaiming "rebuild" with every 3rd word out of his mouth.