GDT: Buffalo Bills at NY Jets 09.08.2019 1PM ET

[SoFFacet]

I am not ignoring it. If Allen is the guy then he should be better then Mayfield Darnold and Jackson by seasons end. That is not high expectations but maybe for you Bills fans it is.

First of all, we didn't have a chance to draft Mayfield or Darnold. But even if one of them (or any other QB) ends up balling out this year, that doesn't actually matter in terms of Allen's eval.

 

[brian_griffin]

Bills fans should have high expectations for their QB. Since they passed on Mahomes, Bills fans should expect Allen to be at least as good as him.

Passing on Mahomes should be a possible indictment of Beane / McDermott / Pegulas and have no bearing on Bills fans expectations of Allen; just as trading up to draft Watkins was an indictment of Whaley.
Bills fans should compare Allen to Rosen and Jackson. Bills had no opportunity to draft Mayfield and Darnold.
The expectations of Allen should range from: (A) being a competent starter the Bills don't need to move on from at the end of his rookie contract and start over to (B) annually a playoff-caliber QB.

It's interesting Darnold, Rosen, Arnold are now all in the same division. We'll see who is the challenger for the Patriots throne once Belichek dies and Brady reaches the mandatory Social Security age of 67.

 

[Zman5778]

I am not ignoring it. If Allen is the guy then he should be better then Mayfield Darnold and Jackson by seasons end. That is not high expectations but maybe for you Bills fans it is.

Mayfield and Darnold don't factor into this discussion at all. We never had the chance to draft them.

Allen should be compared to Rosen and Jackson -- and outside of Lamar's insane game yesterday, Allen has been better than both. And I don't care about the numbers per se. Allen and Jackson will be asked to do different things in their offenses.

What I care about -- Allen shows progression and ends the year as a legit, honest-to-god starting NFL QB with room for even more improvement in year 3. I want to see a guy that can lead us to the playoffs. We don't need Allen to be Brady. Or Mahomes. Or Brees. Or any of the elite QBs. If he's the best in the division once Brady dies, that'll be enough to win us division titles and then who knows from there.

 

[Dingo44]

I am not ignoring it. If Allen is the guy then he should be better then Mayfield Darnold and Jackson by seasons end. That is not high expectations but maybe for you Bills fans it is.

So, you're not a Bills fan, but just in here to troll Bills fans?

And that Allen has to be better than Mahomes comment basically immediately disqualifies you on anything else you say anyway.

 

[sabremike]

 

[dkollidas]

Passing on Mahomes should be a possible indictment of Beane / McDermott / Pegulas and have no bearing on Bills fans expectations of Allen; just as trading up to draft Watkins was an indictment of Whaley.
Bills fans should compare Allen to Rosen and Jackson. Bills had no opportunity to draft Mayfield and Darnold.
The expectations of Allen should range from: (A) being a competent starter the Bills don't need to move on from at the end of his rookie contract and start over to (B) annually a playoff-caliber QB.

It's interesting Darnold, Rosen, Arnold are now all in the same division. We'll see who is the challenger for the Patriots throne once Belichek dies and Brady reaches the mandatory Social Security age of 67.

Beane wasn’t there the year we drafted White and traded down with the Chiefs who took Mahomes.

It was Whaley/McDermott.
My belief (just me personally, I don’t have anything to back this up), is that it was McDermott’s team. He rode out Whaley’s staff for his 1st draft and subsequently they fired Whaley and brought in Beane.

Because of the situation with a lame duck GM and Scoutinf staff, I don’t believe McDermott was ready to invest that heavy of draft stock into a QB his own people wouldn’t have scouted.

Instead he decided to trade down, collect picks for the next year, and give his GM (who turned out to be Beane), more ammo to grab a QB in what was widely believed to be a stocked 2018 QB draft class.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Mahomes doesn't look half as good as he did in 18 if he has old mccoy and garbage Benjamin as his two best weapons.

As long as White continues on his path as a top 5 CB and Allen is a top 12 QB I would be happy with that outcome over Mahomes. Look how much better Allen was with Brown here

 

[Ralonzo]

Jets brought that on themselves sending Mosley to cover John Brown on a deep post route. He made the play but broke himself doing it.

 

[johnjm22]

QB drafting is a guessing game. It mostly comes down to luck.

Because of that I won't really criticize a GM for the QB they draft. I will criticize them for hanging onto a QB for too long like the Jags/Dolphins did with Bortles and Tannehill. An organization needs to recognize when it's not working and move on ASAP.

By the end of this season I think we'll have a very good idea of what Allen is. Me personally I'm more on the optimistic side. I've seen every throw he's made in the NFL. I think the accuracy concerns are exaggerated. He can be reckless at times, but that can be fixed.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

The only thing I will criticize is choosing to trade with KC over Houston. I called it right then and there. We trade with Houston instead and we get the #4 overall pick. Imagine that....I LOVE Edmunds as a player but imagine having #4 and drafting Bradley Chubb, Roquan Smith or Quentin Nelson AND also Josh Allen. Or we trade down from 4 to the mid teens, get Edmunds still AND either 2 2nds+ or a 2019 1st to move down from 4 to say 15 to get Edmunds.

Only mistake on draft night in 2017.

 

[SoFFacet]

The only thing I will criticize is choosing to trade with KC over Houston. I called it right then and there. We trade with Houston instead and we get the #4 overall pick. Imagine that....I LOVE Edmunds as a player but imagine having #4 and drafting Bradley Chubb, Roquan Smith or Quentin Nelson AND also Josh Allen. Or we trade down from 4 to the mid teens, get Edmunds still AND either 2 2nds+ or a 2019 1st to move down from 4 to say 15 to get Edmunds.

Only mistake on draft night in 2017.

Houston getting the #4 was an injury fluke, but in hindsight, sure.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Houston getting the #4 was an injury fluke, but in hindsight, sure.

Basically came here to post this & it's not the first time I've had this response loaded up for Layne regards trading with KC over Houston.

If you want to be mad about anything then be mad that the Bills didn't draft Deshaun Watson because I reckon that's what would have happened had the old regime been in charge.

Allen is right now clearly a downgrade but given all the other moves McBeane have made - I'll take it.

Hopefully Allen does develop & plays on a comparable level to Watson or even Mahomes... If he does the Bills will be legit contenders.

 

[SoFFacet]

Passing on Mahomes should be a possible indictment of Beane / McDermott / Pegulas and have no bearing on Bills fans expectations of Allen.

It has no bearing on Allen, but it doesn't really have bearing on current management either. At the 2017 draft, Beane wasn't here, McDermott had recently been hired and isn't a scout, and Whaley was a dead man walking. It would have been the height of irresponsibility to allow Whaley or McDermott (using Whaley's board, or his own inexpert judgment, or via people whispering in his ear) to saddle the next GM with a QB that he did not choose.

Pretending that anyone knew what Watson or Mahomes were at the time would be revisionist. The prevailing opinion was that Watson was the nth successful college "running QB" that probably wouldn't pan out. And Mahomes was the nth Big-12 project that probably wouldn't pan out. Which is why they fell to 10 and 12. Imagine a timeline where things go differently, and Pegula allows Whaley/McDermott to pick... Kizer. Or even Trubisky! (supposing Chicago does something different). The franchise would be in turmoil, and debate would rage about if the team should just cut their losses, and on who in the FO, if anyone, deserves second chances.

Instead they trade back and give their GM who they haven't even hired yet, the ammunition he will need to select a QB that he actively wants the next year. Possibly the wisest decision Bills management has ever made.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I keep seeing all this stuff about how we were lucky that CJ Mosley left the game...

Mosley leaving the game definitely had an impact. But when you really break it down, I feel like the Bills offense was consistently putting together drives for a good chunk of the day, even with Mosley in the game.

On the day, the Bills had the ball a total of 12 times.

- One possession was the kneel down at the half.
- One possession was running out the clock at the end of the game.
- Then you have the Cole Beasley bounce (pretty much a fluke), which was returned for a touchdown. This drive was one play.
- Then you have the safety, which also lasted one play.

That leaves 8 true possessions for the Bills offense.

1. Drive #1 (7 plays, 37 yards): They marched down the field to the Jets 26 yard line. Then Dion Dawkins missed a block, resulting in the sack/strip. Good play by the Jets D.

2. Drive #3 (9 plays, 35 yards): Another drive into scoring position, until the Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty on Jon Feliciano (questionable call in my opinion). Then the Jets D holds strong on resulting play.

3. Drive #4 (3 plays, 7 yards): This was a really bad series by buffalo, and a great series by the Jets D, which also included an absolutely awful throw by Allen that should have been an INT if not overturned by penalty.

4. Drive #5 (9 plays, 58 yards): Another strong drive, ended by the botched snap on the QB sneak (dumb play call IMO. But it’s worth mentioning that the QB and center were playing together for the first time ever in live game action. Mitch Morse was out all preseason/training camp).

5. Drive #6 (5 plays, 30 yards): The offense was starting to move again. Then we have the tipped pass, which was also intercepted.

6. Drive #9 (9 plays, 50 yards): Ended in our first 3 points of the day.

7. Drive #10 (8 plays, 85 yards): Touchdown

8. Drive #11 (8 plays, 80 yards): Touchdown


I felt like the Bills were moving the ball well, but they just seemed to hit some invisible force field every time they got near the red zone.


But On a snap-by-snap basis, I felt like the Bills more/less controlled the game on both sides, except for that 10-12min. stretch in the 3rd Q where the Jets looked to be taking over the game.

The Bills defense was very good all day. The offense struggled at times, but had some really bad bounces and extremely bad luck. They had some really bad mistakes at the wrong time.
But there are 9 new starters on the Bills offense. They’re the only team in the NFL with 4 new starting o-linemen. Both top 2 WRs are new. All 3 RBs are new. Top 3 TEs are new.

It’s a work in progress, but I was encouraged by what I saw Sunday.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I keep seeing all this stuff about how we were lucky that CJ Mosley left the game...

Mosley leaving the game definitely had an impact. But when you really break it down, I feel like the Bills offense was consistently putting together drives for a good chunk of the day, even with Mosley in the game.

On the day, the Bills had the ball a total of 12 times.

- One possession was the kneel down at the half.
- One possession was running out the clock at the end of the game.
- Then you have the Cole Beasley bounce (pretty much a fluke), which was returned for a touchdown. This drive was one play.
- Then you have the safety, which also lasted one play.

That leaves 8 true possessions for the Bills offense.

1. Drive #1 (7 plays, 37 yards): They marched down the field to the Jets 26 yard line. Then Dion Dawkins missed a block, resulting in the sack/strip. Good play by the Jets D.

2. Drive #3 (9 plays, 35 yards): Another drive into scoring position, until the Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty on Jon Feliciano (questionable call in my opinion). Then the Jets D holds strong on resulting play.

3. Drive #4 (3 plays, 7 yards): This was a really bad series by buffalo, and a great series by the Jets D, which also included an absolutely awful throw by Allen that should have been an INT if not overturned by penalty.

4. Drive #5 (9 plays, 58 yards): Another strong drive, ended by the botched snap on the QB sneak (dumb play call IMO. But it’s worth mentioning that the QB and center were playing together for the first time ever in live game action. Mitch Morse was out all preseason/training camp).

5. Drive #6 (5 plays, 30 yards): The offense was starting to move again. Then we have the tipped pass, which was also intercepted.

6. Drive #9 (9 plays, 50 yards): Ended in our first 3 points of the day.

7. Drive #10 (8 plays, 85 yards): Touchdown

8. Drive #11 (8 plays, 80 yards): Touchdown


I felt like the Bills were moving the ball well, but they just seemed to hit some invisible force field every time they got near the red zone.


But On a snap-by-snap basis, I felt like the Bills more/less controlled the game on both sides, except for that 10-12min. stretch in the 3rd Q where the Jets looked to be taking over the game.

The Bills defense was very good all day. The offense struggled at times, but had some really bad bounces and extremely bad luck. They had some really bad mistakes at the wrong time.
But there are 9 new starters on the Bills offense. They’re the only team in the NFL with 4 new starting o-linemen. Both top 2 WRs are new. All 3 RBs are new. Top 3 TEs are new.

It’s a work in progress, but I was encouraged by what I saw Sunday.

Great Post & analysis.

There's an article just popped up on the athletic which I'm going to read later but probably isn't much different to this.

One thing I will say though - Mosley getting hurt definately swung the game IMO & there is no shame in that from the Bills POV.

Who know of the Bills make the comeback with Mosley on the field... Fact is he was lights out their best player & him not being there could only help. That shouldn't take anything away from what the Bills were getting done.... But the fact remains that before he went off he looked like he was playing them on his own. They looked lost without him.