Buffalo Bills Buffalo Bills 2019 Regular Season Continued (8-3) - Next Game at Dallas (6-5) on 11/28

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Continued from here: Buffalo Bills 2019 Regular Season (6-2) - Next game @ Cleveland (2/6) on 11/10

Pro Football Focus' 90 Club: Highest-graded players | Week 9

OBL 11/5: The Bills at midway point of the season; Week 10 fantasy with Field Yates

OBL 11/4: Devin Singletary on his big performance on Sunday; Eric Wood, Maddy Glab, Dan Orlovsky and Laura Okmin break down the Bills win

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[Member 308457]

No matter what happens, there's always this Patriots fan crying:

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Harbaugh mentioned that one of the reasons why they started to look at Lamar is the realization that most NFL teams were chasing their vision of a 1980's West Coast passer, looking for college football to hand them a young Joe Montana. Ravens instead of following the crowd asked instead of how we can mold a college spread QB into our offense how can we create an offense around the QB's skills? And it's not like Lamar was a nobody. He had already dominated college football.

Same with Mahomes or Watson. Mahomes was attacked for "making plays outside the structure of the offense". Well, again, that sounds like old thinking as NFL defenses don't allow you to have every play come out the way they were drawn on the board due to their insane speed and athleticism.

Watson? He got put in a box as a QB who was not a "pocket passer" because he could escape a pass-rush. Hmm, again, sounds like a pretty good trait for a modern NFL QB.

So I agree that not everyone understands how to draft QB's but many teams make it harder on themselves when they try to pretend they can change players into something they are not. Remember EJ Manuel and how the Bills explained they liked his big hands and body for the snow? This backward thinking is still far too common in the NFL draft.

Right - and I said that I didn't disagree with anything in your original post.

But hindsight is 20/20. There were a ton of negative comments particularly against Jackson in the buildup to the 2018 draft by man so called experts - those were echoed by many armchair scout/gm posters on this very forum. You could search the archives if you want. Same case for Mahomes & Watson the previous year.

If it was so obvious & such a foregone conclusion that these guys would be superstars then they would have been drafted at the very top. So much needs to go right - having the type of foresight you are talking about is only a part of it.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Right - and I said that I didn't disagree with anything in your original post.

But hindsight is 20/20. There were a ton of negative comments particularly against Jackson in the buildup to the 2018 draft by man so called experts - those were echoed by many armchair scout/gm posters on this very forum. You could search the archives if you want. Same case for Mahomes & Watson the previous year.

If it was so obvious & such a foregone conclusion that these guys would be superstars then they would have been drafted at the very top. So much needs to go right - having the type of foresight you are talking about is only a part of it.

Lamar's a phenomenal runner, but he still has a lot to prove in the passing game. His stats are eerily similar to Allen's if you ignore the Miami game, which seems like an anomaly at this point. I mean, his yards per attempt were double what he's put up in any other game.

Lamar does worry me, though. He's such a great kid, and has the best running ability we've seen from a QB since Vick, but durability is a real concern with QBs asked to run as much as he does.

He's already had 99 attempted runs on the season, and he seems to be running more frequently as the season progresses. The next highest attempts to run is Josh Allen at 61, and we all worry about him getting hit too much.

Lamar's on pace to rush 198 times this year. That's an insane amount. To put things in perspective, Cam Newton had 101 rushing attempts in 14 games last year. Cam hasn't ever come close to that total in his entire career. In fact, I stat checked all the way back to 2000, and there wasnt one QB who surpass 150 attempts.

What this tells me? Lamar is exciting right now, and killing it with his feet, but if the Ravens dont reduce his rushes and Lamar doesnt learn to win with his arm, then his career is going to be riddled with injuries. It's just not a viable option for longterm success.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Right - and I said that I didn't disagree with anything in your original post.

But hindsight is 20/20. There were a ton of negative comments particularly against Jackson in the buildup to the 2018 draft by man so called experts - those were echoed by many armchair scout/gm posters on this very forum. You could search the archives if you want. Same case for Mahomes & Watson the previous year.

If it was so obvious & such a foregone conclusion that these guys would be superstars then they would have been drafted at the very top. So much needs to go right - having the type of foresight you are talking about is only a part of it.

Guys are hired to see things before they are drafted.

With respect to Mahomes, McDermott might not have seen it but Andy Reid did. The GM for the Chiefs believed they were trading up for a generational player. He spent 90 straight days on the phone with Mahomes agent pre-draft. I think that's foresight. Sean Payton told someone pre-draft he thought Mahomes was Brett Favre. Bruce Arians put Mahomes on the whiteboard and said his football IQ was like an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. Bills didn't do any whiteboard with Mahomes. And if they did who? McDermott? The QB coach who had never coached NFL QB's before?

Watson was a QB that didn't fit the NFL paint by numbers mold. Lamar Jackson needed to be drafted by a team with imagination and creativity. Again, that wasn't going to be Buffalo.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[SoFFacet]

I mean, if there was one team with surrounding circumstances working against drafting Jackson, it was us. The backlash against the possibility of "another Tyrod" was already red hot based on the mere possibility of it. And it's not like we could have hired Roman back. Oh well. 30ish other teams made the same mistake.

 

[TalkingProuder]

I mean, if there was one team with surrounding circumstances working against drafting Jackson, it was us. The backlash against the possibility of "another Tyrod" was already red hot based on the mere possibility of it. And it's not like we could have hired Roman back. Oh well. 30ish other teams made the same mistake.

I believe Buffalo scouted Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen. I saw no visits with Jackson.

And you are right. From a marketing standpoint initially, Lamar would have been "another Tyrod" for some idiot fans. Of course if Buffalo had a Lamar and he walloped the Patriots in prime time and was in the conversation for league MVP all would be forgiven.

 

[whiplash]

Lamar's a phenomenal runner, but he still has a lot to prove in the passing game. His stats are eerily similar to Allen's if you ignore the Miami game, which seems like an anomaly at this point. I mean, his yards per attempt were double what he's put up in any other game.

Lamar does worry me, though. He's such a great kid, and has the best running ability we've seen from a QB since Vick, but durability is a real concern with QBs asked to run as much as he does.

He's already had 99 attempted runs on the season, and he seems to be running more frequently as the season progresses. The next highest attempts to run is Josh Allen at 61, and we all worry about him getting hit too much.

Lamar's on pace to rush 198 times this year. That's an insane amount. To put things in perspective, Cam Newton had 101 rushing attempts in 14 games last year. Cam hasn't ever come close to that total in his entire career. In fact, I stat checked all the way back to 2000, and there wasnt one QB who surpass 150 attempts.

What this tells me? Lamar is exciting right now, and killing it with his feet, but if the Ravens dont reduce his rushes and Lamar doesnt learn to win with his arm, then his career is going to be riddled with injuries. It's just not a viable option for longterm success.

I'd suggest looking in to this a bit more. Most data suggests there isn't a correlation between running QBs and increased chances of injury. The bias to see them as undesirable comes more from the amount of running QBs who can hack it in college but not the NFL (talent-wise). Jackson will be fine as long as his arm-talent doesn't weirdly decrease.
Same thing with Allen and his legs. I get why they're handcuffing him; he's not good enough at avoiding contact in the open field and still needs help with his footwork and ability to read defenses. But it would be pointless to shut his (or Baltimore, Jackson's) legs down forever for an overstated injury problem.

 

[TalkingProuder]

I like Polian and it's good to see this. I don't think Polian was racist. He just scouted in a day where the game was different than now. What I do wonder is how so many current NFL GM's still are looking backwards like Bill was:

Sorry, Lamar Jackson. Bill Polian had you pegged wrong when he declared that you were better suited to play wide receiver than quarterback in the NFL — where you are tearing up the league as a possible MVP.
Don’t just take it from me. Listen to the Hall of Fame GM who said it, Polian himself.
“I was wrong, because I used the old, traditional quarterback standard with him, which is clearly why John Harbaugh and Ozzie Newsome were more prescient than I was,” Polian told USA TODAY Sports on Tuesday, referring to the Baltimore Ravens coach and former GM who drafted the explosive, multi-dimensional talent with the final pick in the first round in 2018.
Alluding to offensive coordinator Greg Roman, Polian added, “And Greg found a way in how he’s developed a system to use those dynamic skills. Bottom line, I was wrong.”
Lamar Jackson: Bill Polian says he was wrong to call QB a WR in NFL

 

[26CornerBlitz]

PEPSI ROOKIE OF THE WEEK

Pepsi Rookie of the Week

Buffalo turned to Devin Singletary for a big ground game against Washington, but was the running back's performance the best of all 2019 rookies last week? Cast your vote now!

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'd suggest looking in to this a bit more. Most data suggests there isn't a correlation between running QBs and increased chances of injury. The bias to see them as undesirable comes more from the amount of running QBs who can hack it in college but not the NFL (talent-wise). Jackson will be fine as long as his arm-talent doesn't weirdly decrease.
Same thing with Allen and his legs. I get why they're handcuffing him; he's not good enough at avoiding contact in the open field and still needs help with his footwork and ability to read defenses. But it would be pointless to shut his (or Baltimore, Jackson's) legs down forever for an overstated injury problem.

I have a hard time believing a QB that takes 75 more hits a year is equally as likely to get injured as the next guy. Also, Lamar isn't just your typical running QB, he's literally on pace to shatter all QBs rushing attempts per season since at least 2000.

Also, you dont shut his running down, you tone it down.

That being said, I can watch Lamar rushing highlights all day. Damn.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Watch: Freddie Kitchens press conference

 

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Mike Freeman's 10-Point Stance: In Prime of Career, Has OBJ Become Irrelevant?

 

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SI: NFL Midseason Predictions 2019: Playoff Picks, Super Bowl Champ, Awards Winners

With nine games worth of information—every team has hit the halfway mark— The MMQB’s writers and editors revisit their preseason playoff and award predictions and take another shot at picking who will play for it all in Miami in February.

The Bills are a near unanimous pick to earn a Wild Card Playoff Berth.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Guys are hired to see things before they are drafted.

With respect to Mahomes, McDermott might not have seen it but Andy Reid did. The GM for the Chiefs believed they were trading up for a generational player. He spent 90 straight days on the phone with Mahomes agent pre-draft. I think that's foresight. Sean Payton told someone pre-draft he thought Mahomes was Brett Favre. Bruce Arians put Mahomes on the whiteboard and said his football IQ was like an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. Bills didn't do any whiteboard with Mahomes. And if they did who? McDermott? The QB coach who had never coached NFL QB's before?

Watson was a QB that didn't fit the NFL paint by numbers mold. Lamar Jackson needed to be drafted by a team with imagination and creativity. Again, that wasn't going to be Buffalo.

One of the best things about the NFL is the diversity in play styles /systems & the possibility to win in many different ways.

The 30 or so GMs in the league who passed on Lamar Jackson aren't all totally incompetent

I am by no means an NFL expert - but I actually liked Jackson when watching his tape in the buildup to that draft. I felt that Jackson at 32 was a far better pick at the time than Allen was at seven. Even despite his success in Baltimore though I'm not bitter about it or critical of the Bills staff.

Allen is not a complete failure - far from it IMO - he just needs to be given the best chance to succeed.

I like what McBeane have done on the whole so far so hopefully they can identify what needs to be done to give Allen that best chance (surround him with high end talent) & compliment this by continuing the great work they have done unearthing good contributors from more unfashionable places.

 

[Tsujimoto]

Of course if Buffalo had a Lamar and he walloped the Patriots in prime time and was in the conversation for league MVP all would be forgiven.

Hell, all Allen had to do was hurdle one linebacker and most of the people who were pissed about the pick were on board.

 

[TalkingProuder]

One of the best things about the NFL is the diversity in play styles /systems & the possibility to win in many different ways.

The 30 or so GMs in the league who passed on Lamar Jackson aren't all totally incompetent

I am by no means an NFL expert - but I actually liked Jackson when watching his tape in the buildup to that draft. I felt that Jackson at 32 was a far better pick at the time than Allen was at seven. Even despite his success in Baltimore though I'm not bitter about it or critical of the Bills staff.

Allen is not a complete failure - far from it IMO - he just needs to be given the best chance to succeed.

I like what McBeane have done on the whole so far so hopefully they can identify what needs to be done to give Allen that best chance (surround him with high end talent) & compliment this by continuing the great work they have done unearthing good contributors from more unfashionable places.

I can understand a team run by an offensive genius such as Kyle Shanahan not wanting Lamar. Shanahan has a very specific system that works well and he got hired to run. For him, he only needs a QB that is smart and accurate and he can make him an effective robot.

I still question the Bills for not even bringing him in for a visit. Greg Roman had a top ten scoring offense with Tyrod just before McDermott got here. Surely the Buffalo organization should have been able to connect the dots. But McDermott reminds me of when Gregg Williams was hired and he wanted to run a West Coast offense. Why? Because he thought that was a good system. Didn't mean he had a clue how to implement it.

The Buffalo offense suffers from a lack of big picture thinking and it's not just not looking at Lamar. What was the plan for Josh Allen? Does anybody understand it? To me it looks like random parts thrown at Daboll and he is told to make it work somehow. The Ravens were already drafting players for Lamar THAT DRAFT! That's how you become a top contender. The drafting, development, and vision all align. The only vision currently in Buffalo is McDermott's defense. I understand what that is.

 

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Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield will face off for the first time in this key AFC matchup in Week 10.

Quick Hits | Will Corey Liuget's addition help the run defense?

 

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506 Sports - NFL Maps: Week 10, 2019

CBS SINGLE

█ Buffalo @ Cleveland Andrew Catalon, James Lofton

 

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Freddie Kitchens talks Kareem Hunt's return to action, Bills preparation - Press Conference

Opening statement:

“It will be good to be back home facing a very good Buffalo Bills team that is playing good football. (Bills Head Coach) Sean (McDermott) is doing a great job with those guys. They are playing good defense. They run the ball very effectively. They play smart. They play tough. They are physical. Their defense keeps them in every game, and then their offense kind of tries to impose the will on you. From an injury perspective, we have a few guys that are day to day. (S) Damarious (Randall) will be back out there today. We will see where he is – not really sure yet about him. The other guys are just kind of day to day – the two tight ends (Pharaoh Brown and Ricky Seals-Jones) are kind of day to day.”

 

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Josh Allen: " We just have guys who do their job" (6:43)

Bills quarterback Josh Allen meets with the media following Wednesday's practice at One Bills Drive. Topics Include: The 2018 Draft process that both he and Baker Mayfield were a part of, Myles Garrett and his ability to get to the quarterback, executing in short-yardage situations and in the red zone, and expectations that the team has for themselves going into the second half of the season.