Confirmed Trade: [BUF/CHI] Alex Nylander for Henri Jokiharju

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ijuka

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His ceiling is NHL top 6 line winger. Will he reach it? Who knows, but Bowman isnt making that trade for AHL ceiling.
That's pretty optimistic. I don't think he plays an HHL game. Additionally, he's a top 6 or bust-type of a player. He won't be your 4th line energy guy. I see a tweener.
 
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is the answer jesus

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If you heard the org gush about Vlasic, I doubt that. They had him as a mid-1st on their team board. They love him. They said they were shocked he made it to their 2nd round pick.
If my team had a mid-first round grade on Vlasic I'd be very worried about their ability to evaluate talent.
As for the trade, I could see it working out well for both teams. Nylander has oodles of talent, just needs a little drive/urgency in his game. He looked great in training camp and didnt look out of place in his stints with the big club. It's definitely a safer bet for the Sabres though. They got a good young defenseman that looks to be at least a solid 2nd pair guy. Walked away very impressed in my viewings of Jokiharju last season.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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If my team had a mid-first round grade on Vlasic I'd be very worried about their ability to evaluate talent.
As for the trade, I could see it working out well for both teams. Nylander has oodles of talent, just needs a little drive/urgency in his game. He looked great in training camp and didnt look out of place in his stints with the big club. It's definitely a safer bet for the Sabres though. They got a good young defenseman that looks to be at least a solid 2nd pair guy. Walked away very impressed in my viewings of Jokiharju last season.
And if you know anything about the Blackhawks lately they've been killing it in the draft since 2016.
 

is the answer jesus

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And if you know anything about the Blackhawks lately they've been killing it in the draft since 2016.
On paper it looks they've done well in the draft. They have a prospect pool that looks promising especially on the blueline, but what Mitchell or Krys become is still up in the air. Obviously Debrincat was a HR and I like alot of their draft picks, but they've had some real head scratching moves as well. I don't like the Maatta acquistion, I don't think Dach was a top 3 player in this draft, Vlasic has a very modest ceiling. I'm not the biggest Shaw fan. Trading Panarin for that return? Eeek. With that said you guys stole DeHaan, getting a 1st for Hartman was a great move. I think Boqvist is a top pairing defenseman in the making. So some good, some bad and probably a lot in between. At this point I'm not willing to say they stand out above the rest in their talent evaluation.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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Just watch Vlasic play two shifts and you can tell he's not the type of player that's going to be winning Norris trophies. He doesn't have the offensive skill.
No I don't think so either, but I think he's going to score goals. He has a wicked shot. Might put up 25-30 points and 10-15 of them will be goals. I agree he doesn't have the hands. I just think he's going to complement Boqvist well as a shutdown D. I wouldn't put it out of the question for him to surprise offensively. I look at him as having a prime Seabrook type ceiling.
 
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Space umpire

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Just watch Vlasic play two shifts and you can tell he's not the type of player that's going to be winning Norris trophies. He doesn't have the offensive skill.
I know it goes against everything HF stands for but I am not overly interested in Vlasic's offensive production.
The best thing that happened to Hawk defensive prospects this past season was the growth of Beaudin. He has grown into a player many now think can be a 1st pairing type puck handling offensive D-man. Nobody (who actually follows the prospects) will claim that Boqvist and Mitchell won't make a very good 1st pairing, so combine that with Beaudin and Vlasic on the 2nd pair. And guys like Maatta and Krys haven't even been mentioned yet.
It does blow me away that posters on HF will always criticize a defenseman for a lack of offensive production.
 

GaryU

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It actually isn't if you know anything about Chicago's D prospect pool.
Boqvist and Vlasic blow Jokiharju's upside away, Beaudin is a bit better, you could say the same about Mitchell, and Krys is a similar prospect to Jokiharju. The only difference is that Jokiharju is NHL ready. The others aren't quite there yet. You're overrating being NHL ready.
Right, Stan, Jr.
 
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bandwagonesque

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I know it goes against everything HF stands for but I am not overly interested in Vlasic's offensive production.
The best thing that happened to Hawk defensive prospects this past season was the growth of Beaudin. He has grown into a player many now think can be a 1st pairing type puck handling offensive D-man. Nobody (who actually follows the prospects) will claim that Boqvist and Mitchell won't make a very good 1st pairing, so combine that with Beaudin and Vlasic on the 2nd pair. And guys like Maatta and Krys haven't even been mentioned yet.
It does blow me away that posters on HF will always criticize a defenseman for a lack of offensive production.
If you're saying two guys who have never played in the NHL are almost certainly going to form a very good top pair, you're probably too in love with prospects to view them rationally.
 
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Dr Quincy

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Or you're trying to shape an argument to fit your narrative.
Hmmm.....
Nobody (who actually follows the prospects) will claim that Boqvist and Mitchell won't make a very good 1st pairing

The CHI fan didn't say "Could make" "Might be" "If all goes well will"...

Nope... Nobody will claim that they WON'T make a very good 1st pairing.

The poster you responded to got it exactly right. BTW I thought you were tired of this discussion 2 days ago. Welcome back, we missed you!
 
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Kaners Bald Spot

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Hmmm.....


The CHI fan didn't say "Could make" "Might be" "If all goes well will"...

Nope... Nobody will claim that they WON'T make a very good 1st pairing.

The poster you responded to got it exactly right. BTW I thought you were tired of this discussion 2 days ago. Welcome back, we missed you!
I was tired of arguing about Jokiharju's ceiling(or lack thereof)
Now I'm tired of arguing about this.
Nobody in here knows everything about every player in every system. It is intellectually dishonest to say that you do.
Sometimes, it is best to defer to those who follow/know their own team's prospects.
Nylander sucked in Buffalo. I get that.
I'm trying to tell people what I think about Jokiharju, and just because it doesn't fit the narrative that this is a bad trade for Chicago, people won't listen. Groupthink at its finest.

I'm done and let this thread die.
 

Dr Quincy

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I'd argue that at LEAST 50% of the time the worst place to ask about how good a prospect will be is from fans of that team.

Maybe 75% of the time.

And it's totally fine to say you don't think Jokiharju is going to be an impact player. It's when people start talking about the 5 other top pairing D men the team has that have all somehow passed him by without ever having the success at the same level as he has that has some people not quite on the same page as you.

It's also intellectually dishonest for you to say you know more about someone like Chad Krys than someone who has been a lifelong BU fan and has gone to live games and has also watched a few on NESN.
 

Artorius Horus T

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Alex Nylander* in his last 14 games, 2+1 (2+0 in one game).
= 4 goals, 6 assists, 10 points, -8 in 26 games this season. (0.36 ppg)

This is the skinny from this season: 1) starts in the 1st line, does nothing,
followed by demotion to the 3rd line in the 2nd period, plays 12-15 minutes, on/off pp time
2) plays in in the 4th line on/off pp time, plays 10-13 minutes.

*he does (apparently) have good game in him, at times,
skates well, plays hard, checks hard, is sound defensively
and even his shot seems to be more than decent...at times

Henri Jokiharju has 9 points (3 goals), +4 in 28 games this season for the Sabres.
Now i have not followed much Sabres this season but, i presume that
he has played 3rd pair minutes for the Sabres, without any PP time, this entire season.

Now, my fellow Hawk fans might not agree with me but, my opinion on Nylander
is still the same; bust. And where as Jokiharju; has top 4 d-man (18-21 mins) potential in him.
 

Chainshot

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Alex Nylander* in his last 14 games, 2+1 (2+0 in one game).
= 4 goals, 6 assists, 10 points, -8 in 26 games this season. (0.36 ppg)

This is the skinny from this season: 1) starts in the 1st line, does nothing,
followed by demotion to the 3rd line in the 2nd period, plays 12-15 minutes, on/off pp time
2) plays in in the 4th line on/off pp time, plays 10-13 minutes.

*he does (apparently) have good game in him, at times,
skates well, plays hard, checks hard, is sound defensively
and even his shot seems to be more than decent...at times

Henri Jokiharju has 9 points (3 goals), +4 in 28 games this season for the Sabres.
Now i have not followed much Sabres this season but, i presume that
he has played 3rd pair minutes for the Sabres, without any PP time, this entire season.

Now, my fellow Hawk fans might not agree with me but, my opinion on Nylander
is still the same; bust. And where as Jokiharju; has top 4 d-man (18-21 mins) potential in him.

Jokiharju has had time sheltered with lower minutes to start the season. However... he has been their steadiest defenseman and even helped get Marco Scandella's game in order early on (confidence in your partner is an interesting phenomenon). He's picked up some PP time with Dahlin's injury starting yesterday against the Devils and his responsibilities seem to be growing. It would be fair to say for many Sabre fans that he's been the best defenseman almost every game, but they have kept his minutes down for the first third of the year. With their recent trend of rolling 7 defensemen, no one is consistently getting over 20 minutes a night.
 

BeTheBallDanny

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Jokiharju has been a bright spot for the sabres this season, we are feeling very grateful for him. I could see his ice time increasing as the season goes on, he's certainly earning it. I'd rate him as our 3rd most valuable defenseman behind Dahlin and Risto despite playing less time than Scandella, McCabe, etc.

We'll see where it goes, still too early to rate things but its been a win so far
 

ColdSteel2

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Looks the same as when it happened, great for the Sabres, bad for the Hawks. Have been trying to see the positives with Nylander, but he just isn’t progressing. And the Hawks D could desperately use Joki right now.
 
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I Like Eich

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Looks the same as when it happened, great for the Sabres, bad for the Hawks. Have been trying to see the positives with Nylander, but he just isn’t progressing. And the Hawks D could desperately use Joki right now.

Only speaking from his time in Buffalo/Rochester, but Nylander just looked like he never cared. He's never had to fight for a roster spot or playing time, everything has always been given to him, and when he was asked to show the Buffalo organization some development and improvement when sent down to Rochester, he whined about it instead of putting his head down and working hard at the most obvious thing he needs to improve to be successful in the NHL - his skating.

I feel like the "Old man yelling at the cloud" Simpsons meme by saying his biggest problem was his effort and attitude, but it really felt that way the entire time he was here. I was ecstatic when this deal was made, Joki has looked great so far.
 
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