Confirmed Trade: [BUF/CHI] Alex Nylander for Henri Jokiharju

[traffic cone]

This is a wait and see trade. It cannot be fully judged for a couple of seasons. It could turn out to be a bad trade for the Hawks. It could turn out to be a good trade for both teams. It could turn out to be a bad trade for Buffalo.

I think Jokiharju is absolutely an NHL defenseman. The question is, where does he fit? What is his ceiling? If the Hawks don't think he will turn out to be a top pairing guy, they really don't have room for him. They have a ton of defensemen with the recent trades.

Keith/Gustafsson
Maata/Murphy
de Haan/Seabrook

LD in the system: Dahlstrom, Beaudin, Krys, Vlasic
RD in the system: Boqvist, Mitchell

Gus is 27. De Haan is 28. Maata is 24. Murphy is 26... These guys are all basically in their prime. Lots of middle-pairing types, as well.

Keith probably has a couple good years left. Seabrook should be press box fodder this season, and a prime candidate for a compliance buyout. Until they can get rid of him, though, he's taking up one of those spots on the right.

Assuming Boqvist and/or Mitchell can make the jump in the next season or two, where does Joki fit? There is also the fact that the Hawks would have had to expose him in the expansion draft, whereas Boqvist and Mitchell will be exempt.

Jokiharju was the odd man out. I don't have much of an issue with trading him, but the return is a big question mark right now. It will be a question mark for the next season or two, until we see what Jokiharju and Nylander's ceilings are.

Gustafsson is a left-handed D. Like many have said, they could’ve not acquire Maatta and instead fit Jokiharju there (who at this point is better than Boqvist or Mitchell).

Murphy also could’ve been traded before Joki. And Seabrook - while having that monstrous contract - doesn’t deserve any time on ice.

So yeah, that’s two bad moves by Bowman right there.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Chicago has had a higher caliber RHD in Boqvist, but he was still one of the better d prospects. Bowman didn't see him sticking in our line up this year, or eventually turning into a top pairing dman so he exchanged him for a player that can play a top 9 role.

Point is, I don't think Joker was as highly touted as you think.

Jets fans would you do something around Jokiharju or Boqvist

Proposal: - CHI EDM


I tried searching Joki but it was virtually all posts about the Nylander/Joki trade. What I was able to find quickly paints a very different picture. I am not high on Joki because I was scouting him pre trade or liked him in his draft year. Most of my excitement is coming from how numerous Hawk fans felt about him. One felt Joki was the main asset in an Ehlers trade and also listed Boqvist as someone with equal value as it was a one or the other for Ehlers proposal. Then this Edmonton Chicago proposal had several posts applauding the value of Joki and his potential and how much more he was worth then someone like Puljujarvi. I mean, the fact is Joki has the same exact ppg in the NHL as Nylander and has a higher career ppg in the AHL even with his small sample size. It is not just one Hawk fan who highly valued him but it was several. Just look at the thread as the trade was announced. Nearly every non Hawk/Sabre fan thought it was brutal for Chicago and Alex Nylander is not as highly thought of around the league.


It is fine for Chicago because Nylander is going to one of the few teams where he could be plugged in the lineup and do well like Strome last year. I do not think Nylander will become a 1st liner but I think he can be a steady 20-20 middle 6 winger. He was a #8 overall pick and he has supreme blood lines in his family with a dad who averaged 60 points a season and a brother who prior to this year was a star player.

You just won't find many people who were upset over Nylander being moved regardless of the return. A sizeable contingent would have been happy with a late 1st or even a 2nd in return for him that is how afraid a lot of Sabre fans were of him busting and us getting zero contribution from a recent #8 overall pick when we could have drafted Sergachev right there. Joki is no Sergachev but Botterill definitely got a young D who is looking like a long term top 4 dman and a very possible long term D partner for our franchise player in Dahlin. That is what has me most excited for the trade. Risto and Dahlin did not mesh together. Bogo sucks, is always injured and gone next summer. Colin Miller was just acquired and could be a partner for Dahlin but Joki is nearly a decade younger and could literally be a possible D partner for 10+ years with Dahlin.

In conclusion what little everyone has seen of Joki should have Sabre fans excited. He was a recent 1st round pick so its not like he came out of nowhere, he was expected to be a top 4 dman. He put up top offensive dman #s in juniors his D-1 and especially his D+1. He put up a higher AHL ppg his rookie pro season then Nylander has his first 3 pro seasons combined. Joki has the exact NHL ppg as Nylander even though one plays defense. In a redraft of their respective years both are 1st round picks, it is just Joki has shot up the boards in 2017 redrafts and Nylander has slid far down the 2016 lists. Hopefully Nylander breaks out this year. In a league where 18 and 19 year old players are putting up all star #s, it would definitely be alarming if a #8 pick a few years ago failed to become a regular NHL forward after 4 full seasons of pro hockey.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I was never impressed with Jokiharju offensively. I'm pretty much tired of this conversation and we've beat this horse to death. Let us all just let it die. I'm done in this thread. My opinion is my opinion. I couldn't care less about Jokiharju at this point.

I understand.

Saying that Chicago most likely have 5 better D prospects is not an opinion but homerism.

 

[Slimmy]

I think we absolutely came out on top in this trade. Joki looks like he could be the ideal partner for Dahlin down the road. I won't downplay Nylander's skill/natural talent, but he seemed to be giving the org more headaches than he was worth, and he'd clearly been passed over by Olofsson on the LW. On the other side, I'd guess the Sabres like Thompson more as a RW. He obviously struggled in the NHL last year, but he showed a hell of a lot more at the AHL level in the chunk of games he played there than Nylander ever did.

You think part of his struggles was due to a poor attitude in Rochester?

 

[Pez68]

Gustafsson is a left-handed D. Like many have said, they could’ve not acquire Maatta and instead fit Jokiharju there (who at this point is better than Boqvist or Mitchell).

Murphy also could’ve been traded before Joki. And Seabrook - while having that monstrous contract - doesn’t deserve any time on ice.

So yeah, that’s two bad moves by Bowman right there.

No.

 

[WpgBuffan]

It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what the Hawks thought. They probably had him 5th on their depth chart, which is why they traded him.

When it comes to prospects, I value ceiling over all else. It is all about the ceiling. I feel that way in baseball and football as well. I believe the safe pick is the wrong pick 90% of the time.

I am not sure where you are getting that Vlasic has a super high ceiling. If he had a super high ceiling he would of been drafted earlier. He was drafted later because he is a safe prospect with a higher floor and lower ceiling.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is literally the last thing I'm saying on the subject:

I do not think that word means what you think it means!

 

[Dirty Dog]

I didn't know they have a generational prospect pool.

They have top 4 D prospects out the wazoo!!!

 

[HappySabresFan]

Know I'm a bit late but...

 

[Chainshot]

Assuming Nylander continues to improve and starts the season in the same fassion he ended last one, do you think Buff is better off with Jokiharju?
I was excited to see Nylander in Buffalo next season. With Dahlin, Olofsson, Pilut, Larsson and now also Johansson the Sabres have become somewhat of a Swedish colony. Pity he was traded. But if it makes the team better its a good thing, of coarse.

I think he can produce at the NHL level. It may not be eye popping, but he has the talent to provide points and in the right situation, he might prove very good. I have a lot of doubt about his motivation levels but if this deal pushes his buttons and he starts putting in more work, this could look very good for the Hawks in the near future.

I like that Jokiharju trends toward mobile top-4 defender. They have a rush oriented PMD in Montour, as well as the more offensive minded Miller. I suspect they look at Henri as more of the future of defending (I won’t say shutdown but more of the guy they will have out in those situations if they match pairs against lines). They did not have a high-end prospect/burgeoning pro RHD in the system and have a need to replace some old standbys like Bogosian (UFA next summer, always broken) and Ristolainen. It gives them more balance in their depth.

I also don’t see the Swedish colony weakening. They have a variety of players still in the system with Asplund (nice finish to the AHL year, could be up by the end of the coming season), Davidsson (off to Vaxjo for a bigger role), Portillo in net, Cedarqvist, Weissbach, and the host of late round defensemen who might one day be North American pros. They trust their Northern European scouting staff and I would expect they are still in on UDFA out if the SHL in the coming years as well. Nylander so far has been the only one who hasn’t seemed like he was approaching this in a workmanlike fashion and now he was moved.

AHL is ridculous. He is likely a good 3rd liner on a good team. Maybe a 2nd liner on a bad team.

Probably. He has great hands and can create. What has been missing is him finding his why, his motivation. This very well could do that and give him enough drive to break through.

 

[Chainshot]

You think part of his struggles was due to a poor attitude in Rochester?

Very much so. The entitlement conversations around him comes from how he acted and reacted around his time in the AHL. He was better in the NHL but he was still a perimeter guy who will create around the edges and off the rush. Amerk fans in particular are thrilled to see him gone.

 

[tsujimoto74]

You think part of his struggles was due to a poor attitude in Rochester?

Yup. I think he very much expected to be in the NHL and sulked when he wasn't. The Nylanders being the Nylanders, I would not be at all surprised if he had a lot of people around him telling him he was too good for the league he was playing in...even though the on-ice results never implied as much.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think this will turn out to be a trade good for both teams. Nylander's talents will flourish on Chicago's high octane offensive team. And Jokiharju will add some needed mobility to the Sabres blueline.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I do not think that word means what you think it means!

I quit talking about Jokiharju, so whatever. Not arguing it anymore. And yes, I know what literally means, and as long as I haven't made a post arguing about Jokiharju's upside, it is fine.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I understand.

Saying that Chicago most likely have 5 better D prospects is not an opinion but homerism.

Chicago is actually that loaded. It is a valid opinion. They have 4 guys the organization likes more. Therefore, he was 5th on the depth chart.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Chicago is actually that loaded. It is a valid opinion. They have 4 guys the organization likes more. Therefore, he was 5th on the depth chart.

Awesome.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Chicago is actually that loaded. It is a valid opinion. They have 4 guys the organization likes more. Therefore, he was 5th on the depth chart.

The only Dmen Stan mentioned were Boqvist and Mitchell, Joker was 3rd without a doubt.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

3, I highly doubt they valued Vlasic more

If you heard the org gush about Vlasic, I doubt that. They had him as a mid-1st on their team board. They love him. They said they were shocked he made it to their 2nd round pick.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If you heard the org gush about Vlasic, I doubt that. They had him as a mid-1st on their team board. They love him. They said they were shocked he made it to their 2nd round pick.

Yeah, just like how they loved Jokiharju before Colliton became coach. Just because they like him, doesn't mean they value him more.

 

[agent082]

I think it's 72-28 for Sabres to be a winner of this trade.

 

[u2wojo]

The only Dmen Stan mentioned were Boqvist and Mitchell, Joker was 3rd without a doubt.

Third of right handed d prospects then. Unfortunately, Seabrook probably isn't going anywhere any time soon (hopefully a compliance buyout when the next CBA gets opened up....hopefully this fall), and Murphy is under contract 3 more years. As deep as the D prospect pool is, all those guys were never going to have a lineup spot much less all of them working out as being legit NHL players (prospects turn into suspects as often as they do players at the NHL level). The trick for the Hawks has always been to pick the right ones out of the litter and move the others while they have value and before they turn into Pokka. Time will tell if Joker was the right choice out of the trio of RHD and if Nylander was good value in return.

 

[Space umpire]

Tallon got fired for that and the QO Fax snafu in the summer of 2009. The Hawks could have kept either Byfuglien, Ladd or Versteeg had Tallon not been late on the QOs. They ended up having to sign all 3 to 3 year extensions worth 3.25M at a time where the ceiling was around 54M, in order to avoid losing them altogether. There was a chance that all 3 were going to be declared UFAs. The 2010 team almost never happened.

You do know it wasn't "TALLON" who was late with the QO's right? It was pointed out at a presser shortly after it happened that it is the norm in the NHL for the cap guy (which was Bowman) to send the QO's. Tallon himself said it doesn't matter "the buck stops here". Yet when Tallon was fired and Bowman replaced him the QO fiasco was discussed as one of the reasons. ...
And just for the record Bolland, Barker, Byfuglien and Versteeg were the guys paid about 50% more than they would have gotten to keep them from becoming UFA's.

 

[Space umpire]

I am not sure where you are getting that Vlasic has a super high ceiling. If he had a super high ceiling he would of been drafted earlier. He was drafted later because he is a safe prospect with a higher floor and lower ceiling.

So a team like the Hawks shouldn't expect much from 2nd round D-Men like Vlasic or Duncan Keith?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

So a team like the Hawks shouldn't expect much from 2nd round D-Men like Vlasic or Duncan Keith?

Yup. It isn't like Duncan Keith and PK Subban won Norris trophies and Shea Weber was in the running each year for a 5 year span. All were 2nd round picks.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Nylander is 90% probability of bust
Chicago needs to get off the rocks