Speculation: Bryan Rust

[JimmyTwoTimes]

You much guys like Rust, Bjugs, Horny, etc..."when" we have the prospects ready to replace them. And instead of letting them walk for nothing...they turn into assets.

You dont trade Rust now. First have to remember it took him longer to breakout. 2nd..this is the year where he could take his game to the next level...having that experience now and more talent around him than hes ever had before. Well...potentially. Depends on what guys like McCann, Tanev, Galchenyuk, Kahun, etc do...

Right now theres no reason to trade him. He knows the system and we already have too many unproven guys(see above). Wait til they pan out and someone like Bjorkvist/Angello/Lafferty(whoever breaks out from WBS) can step up and play at a high level on their ELC. That would allow us to move Rust at deadline for example(maybe as part of a package) for a return that would help this team.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

As the #1 fan of Rust, I think we'd be stupid to lose him, but this coaching staff also utilizes him so poorly I almost want to see him gone so they can do the same dumb **** with another player and people can whine about someone else.

Hoping that with Phil gone(one less player we couldnt find a "fit" for) theyll stop being dumb with him.

Let Rust dominate on bottom 2 lines or with Geno/Galchenyuk. Period.

Then when someone from WBS is knocking down the door we can look to trade Rust and free up that 3.5 mil....but as an asset. Not as a throw in to move JJ.

We have one bad contract and people flip. Fanbases would love to be in our situation. Teams filled with horrible contracts. That's how spoiled we are lol


Just wait til season starts...maybe JJ plays a lil better first half of year(while also decreasing length of contract...making it 3.5 at 3....not like hes making 7mil a year) and theres an offer with an actual return. For example...Rust/JJ for a defender in his contract year but solid. Just giving an example.


This whole panicking over JJ before season even starts is ridiculous. His contract isnt killing us "right" now. It Will be dealt with before next offseason.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hoping that with Phil gone(one less player we couldnt find a "fit" for) theyll stop being dumb with him.

Let Rust dominate on bottom 2 lines or with Geno/Galchenyuk. Period.

Then when someone from WBS is knocking down the door we can look to trade Rust and free up that 3.5 mil....but as an asset. Not as a throw in to move JJ.

We have one bad contract and people flip. Fanbases would love to be in our situation. Teams filled with horrible contracts. That's how spoiled we are lol


Just wait til season starts...maybe JJ plays a lil better first half of year(while also decreasing length of contract...making it 3.5 at 3....not like hes making 7mil a year) and theres an offer with an actual return. For example...Rust/JJ for a defender in his contract year but solid. Just giving an example.


This whole panicking over JJ before season even starts is ridiculous. His contract isnt killing us "right" now. It Will be dealt with before next offseason.

We've already seen them put Rust with Sid in a pre-season game. Buckle in bud, the stupid is stretching past the last 2 seasons with this staff.

Like I said, I just want to see him go somewhere where he will be used correctly and then when he succeeds, people here can trash him in a 50 page thread because that's what this place does. Blame players instead of actual problems.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

We've already seen them put Rust with Sid in a pre-season game. Buckle in bud, the stupid is stretching past the last 2 seasons with this staff.

Like I said, I just want to see him go somewhere where he will be used correctly and then when he succeeds, people here can trash him in a 50 page thread because that's what this place does. Blame players instead of actual problems.

Lol did they? Rust dominates anywhere other than the 1st line. Then gets " rewarded " by a move up to the first line...where he struggles again.

Amazes me. He is so much better away from Sid. Not even close

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol did they? Rust dominates anywhere other than the 1st line. Then gets " rewarded " by a move up to the first line...where he struggles again.

Amazes me. He is so much better away from Sid. Not even close

That's the thing, people think because you play well on L2 and L3 that the next logical step is to make a line that doesn't even need him there, to play there. Like what the actual dumb shit is that staff thinking with that. Oh for a flash he looks good with Sid and then when he doesn't, they let him linger on that line a little too long and then shaft him down to the 3rd line after ruining his game a little.

He has always looked very good in a 3rd line role and even with Geno, but they have this hard on for his speed with Crosby, meanwhile a guy like Hornqvist has worked gang busters with Crosby but ole' big ass doesn't like him on his line.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

That's the thing, people think because you play well on L2 and L3 that the next logical step is to make a line that doesn't even need him there, to play there. Like what the actual dumb **** is that staff thinking with that. Oh for a flash he looks good with Sid and then when he doesn't, they let him linger on that line a little too long and then shaft him down to the 3rd line after ruining his game a little.

He has always looked very good in a 3rd line role and even with Geno, but they have this hard on for his speed with Crosby, meanwhile a guy like Hornqvist has worked gang busters with Crosby but ole' big ass doesn't like him on his line.

Something Ill never get

I was hoping with us having McCann, Kahun, Tanev now....Rust with Sid will no longer be a thought.

Especially since it should be Horny thwre anyway come playoff time

 

[Gurglesons]

We've already seen them put Rust with Sid in a pre-season game. Buckle in bud, the stupid is stretching past the last 2 seasons with this staff.

Like I said, I just want to see him go somewhere where he will be used correctly and then when he succeeds, people here can trash him in a 50 page thread because that's what this place does. Blame players instead of actual problems.

Rust has played 1 minute with Sid in the pre-season.

They played Tanev there which I mean. Is basically like less talented Rust so.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Rust has played 1 minute with Sid in the pre-season.

They played Tanev there which I mean. Is basically like less talented Rust so.

The point is, it happened. I didn't mention minutes, just that the stupidity of that attempt was tried. So I wouldn't hold out hopes of it not being tried during the season, often.

If I punched you in the nuts and said I wouldn't, I still punched you in the nuts, mate.

 

[Gurglesons]

The point is, it happened. I didn't mention minutes, just that the stupidity of that attempt was tried. So I wouldn't hold out hopes of it not being tried during the season, often.

If I punched you in the nuts and said I wouldn't, I still punched you in the nuts, mate.

More like the point is they weren’t put out together aside from one shift.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

I certainly wouldn't involve him as any sweetener in a JJ deal but tell me what you'll give up for him and i'll listen at the very least.
Like say Drouin wears out his stay in MTL as a hypothetical...

Drouin brings roughly the same amount of Offense as Rust, He is worse defensively than Rust and makes 2 million more. That’s not a player I’d target in any trade. Not to mention he’s about to be on his 3rd team by age 24 and a 3rd OA

 

[Honour Over Glory]

More like the point is they weren’t put out together aside from one shift.

Listen, your palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, there's vomit on his hockey sweater already, mom's pre-game spaghetti, all he needs is that one chance, one shot, for Sully to be ready to use Rust like that.

 

[Peat]

Rust is a bottom 6 player, who’s inconsistent and slightly overpaid. And please don’t throw out the “on pace” argument. Rust can’t stay healthy. If he’s not on the ice it doesn’t matter what he is on pace to do.

Rust is the 55th highest paid RW this coming season according to Capfriendly. He has also been the 54th and 49th most productive RW - not ppg, or p/60, or parsing for 5v5 or anything, just straight up points - the last two.

If that a slightly overpaid bottom 6 player then there's not enough top 6 players in the NHL to go around and far more of the NHL are overpaid than Rust.

right move is keeping Rust and trading our worst 5v5 forward who makes 5.6 million, Hornqvist.

aside from PP, Rust destroys Hornqvist in every part of the game. Hornqvist doesn't even PK.

Over the last three years, we have outscored the opposition and have been expected to outscore the opposition by 4% more with Hornqvist and no Rust on the ice compared to Rust with no Hornqvist on the ice - and they have fairly similar cumulative ice times in the top 6.

Rust has a higher p/60 than Hornqvist in this period, but by all of 0.07%. That's hardly destroying.

Lol did they? Rust dominates anywhere other than the 1st line. Then gets " rewarded " by a move up to the first line...where he struggles again.

Amazes me. He is so much better away from Sid. Not even close

They played one minute together.

And it's strange how someone who dominates everywhere other than the first line so rarely has better possession stats with the 2nd or 3rd line centre than he does with the first line centre.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Trading Rust is a horrible idea unless it brings back a player to strengthen a weakness or rids us of JJ. People act like we're trading Rust for no reason.

Problem is who you gonna get who can contribute to the level of Rust for the same or less money. That guy is hard to find. If you use him to trade JJ, well JJ has enough negative value you will basically be throwing in Rust just to get ride of JJ. At this point picks or prospects who arent ready arent worth it, the window is closing.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Rust is the 55th highest paid RW this coming season according to Capfriendly. He has also been the 54th and 49th most productive RW - not ppg, or p/60, or parsing for 5v5 or anything, just straight up points - the last two.

If that a slightly overpaid bottom 6 player then there's not enough top 6 players in the NHL to go around and far more of the NHL are overpaid than Rust.



Over the last three years, we have outscored the opposition and have been expected to outscore the opposition by 4% more with Hornqvist and no Rust on the ice compared to Rust with no Hornqvist on the ice - and they have fairly similar cumulative ice times in the top 6.

Rust has a higher p/60 than Hornqvist in this period, but by all of 0.07%. That's hardly destroying.



They played one minute together.

And it's strange how someone who dominates everywhere other than the first line so rarely has better possession stats with the 2nd or 3rd line centre than he does with the first line centre.

Possession stats again.


I care about points...goals. Anyone who watches the games can see Rust doing much better away from Crosby. Of course hes gonna have great possession stats with Sid/Jake. But hes not "himself" there.

We see him trying to do things he normally doesnt elsewhere. Then he finally gets moved back down....whattiya know.....2 goal game.

Its happened numerous times over last two seasons. And no not the 2 goal part every time but hopefully u got my point

As for what hes getting paid....we can afford that right now. My hope is we have someone from WBS step up enough where we need to make room and then capitalize on Rust.

Edit: nvm I see you were saying he wasnt overpaid.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

As for who should be on first line....

Pittsburgh Penguins at Washington Capitals Box Score — April 26, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

The same guy who always did well there. And game thru again in game 1 there. What does Sully do? Go with Simon again. Good Lord.

PH had 6g5a in 10 games those playoffs. We arent far removed from that.

Why that isnt an option "if all else fails" is beyond me. Sid doesnt want him all season then fine. But if Kahun/Rust/Simon/etc dont work on that line....go with PH again. It works.

All you need is someone to f***ing distract the goalie a bit to allow Jake/Sid to do their thing lol.

But seriously...PH was great in setting Guentzel up those playoffs. Was great in our b2b cup runs. Gets rewarded with 3rd line "shutdown" line last year when we needed scoring lol.

The one of the few players who didn't get complacent too. He'd could win 10 cups in a row and still yell too much for Sid

 

[Peat]

Possession stats again.

Shouldn't dominance show up in the possession stats at least sometimes though?

I care about points...goals.

Last year Rust had a p/60 of 0.02 lower with Sid than he did Malkin, and .15 lower than with neither - and this is ES, so it includes the 4v4 and 3v3 opportunities that are easier to score, which he doesn't get with Sid or Geno, so lopsided in the favour of ES (as is the fact he doesn't need to conserve as much energy when not skating top 6 minutes). I don't know what I've done with the stats for years prior, but it was pretty close last year too.

As such, Rust's points scoring seems to me to basically be around the same regardless of who he's with. Hardly dominating anywhere other than with Sid.

Anyone who watches the games can see Rust doing much better away from Crosby. Of course hes gonna have great possession stats with Sid/Jake. But hes not "himself" there.

We see him trying to do things he normally doesnt elsewhere. Then he finally gets moved back down....whattiya know.....2 goal game.

Its happened numerous times over last two seasons. And no not the 2 goal part every time but hopefully u got my point

I'm not a huge fan of Rust and Crosby, but it's fine. It works. Does Rust look himself there? Yes and no, sometimes not, sometimes he's trying a little too hard to make plays, but I don't think it's an outrageous impediment to him.

And, of course, if you're right that he dominates everywhere else when himself... it should show. And it doesn't. I can't think of the last time I looked at a string of Rust games away from Sid and thought "Wow, Rust is unplayable right now" like I can with most of our roster. That's the bit I'm really questioning. Rust's dominance elsewhere.

What I would like is if, now that Kessel's not here glued to Malkin and the opportunity is there, if Rust could click with Malkin and make that look silly.

Problem is who you gonna get who can contribute to the level of Rust for the same or less money. That guy is hard to find. If you use him to trade JJ, well JJ has enough negative value you will basically be throwing in Rust just to get ride of JJ. At this point picks or prospects who arent ready arent worth it, the window is closing.

How do you mean contribute? Get the same points? Get the same goal share as a unit? Have the same attributes?

Because points wise, Simon and ZAR had stronger rates albeit in less minutes, and Kahun scored a lot for Chicago, and I don't Tanev was much slower than Rust iirc. Simon and ZAR had better goal shares. Attributes, well, Tanev has them, and AJ and Di Pauli are both very quick down in WBS.

Do all of them have the same definite impact playing Rust's minutes game in game out here? Well... not sure yet, but with so many darts, probably some of them do. Rust isn't a common player, but the Pens have been really chasing guys like him and filling up there.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Problem is who you gonna get who can contribute to the level of Rust for the same or less money. That guy is hard to find. If you use him to trade JJ, well JJ has enough negative value you will basically be throwing in Rust just to get ride of JJ. At this point picks or prospects who arent ready arent worth it, the window is closing.

I don't think you understand how bad Jack Johnson is at hockey. His detriment to this team is much worse than Rust's benefit.

And yes, you would just be adding Rust to get rid of JJ. And it'd be 100% worth it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

numbers, statistics aside....Rust is one of teh few players who epitomizes what we all agree Penguins hockey should be, what we think sully's vision is, as long as he gives 100%. He can go up and down the line up, he can play with geno, with Sid, he is a great 3/4 th line winger...trading him would be a bad idea IMO

He’s the new Jiří Hrdina.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If we move out Bjugstad soon then McCann would be our three C. I could entertain moving Rust for a more stereotypical third line RW or maybe Miles Woodish player but that would require Hornqvist in the top six.

I really hate having that many lefties in our top nine too.

Like I said, losing Rust in the aggregate isn’t necessarily something that would weaken the team, but to trade him would require a good return and/or rebalancing the top 9.

 

[Corvidae]

All moot now as I'm pretty sure he just broke his hand. They'll probably amputate, Civil War style.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All moot now as I'm pretty sure he just broke his hand. They'll probably amputate, Civil War style.

Rust is already getting worked on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We need to sign Robert Blueger and get more intelligence back on this roster.

 

[NMK11]

Rust is the 55th highest paid RW this coming season according to Capfriendly. He has also been the 54th and 49th most productive RW - not ppg, or p/60, or parsing for 5v5 or anything, just straight up points - the last two.

If that a slightly overpaid bottom 6 player then there's not enough top 6 players in the NHL to go around and far more of the NHL are overpaid than Rust.

This is one of the most baffling things about these boards. I bet if you took a poll of which players are top 6 players in the league, you'd get maybe 100. The expectations of a top 6 player seem to be far above what the 180th best player in the league is ever capable of.

As for who should be on first line....

Pittsburgh Penguins at Washington Capitals Box Score — April 26, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

The same guy who always did well there. And game thru again in game 1 there. What does Sully do? Go with Simon again. Good Lord.

PH had 6g5a in 10 games those playoffs. We arent far removed from that.

Why that isnt an option "if all else fails" is beyond me. Sid doesnt want him all season then fine. But if Kahun/Rust/Simon/etc dont work on that line....go with PH again. It works.

All you need is someone to ****ing distract the goalie a bit to allow Jake/Sid to do their thing lol.

But seriously...PH was great in setting Guentzel up those playoffs. Was great in our b2b cup runs. Gets rewarded with 3rd line "shutdown" line last year when we needed scoring lol.

The one of the few players who didn't get complacent too. He'd could win 10 cups in a row and still yell too much for Sid

I think an awful lot of people here all think Horny is a great winger for Sid. They look good together, produce well, etc. I think we've all just come to accept that they won't play together whether it's Sid's or Horny's or Sully's decision. It's a shame.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol, Sully already has his excuse for when he f***s the season.

Sid now hurt from a shot block, Rust injured...

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Shouldn't dominance show up in the possession stats at least sometimes though?



Last year Rust had a p/60 of 0.02 lower with Sid than he did Malkin, and .15 lower than with neither - and this is ES, so it includes the 4v4 and 3v3 opportunities that are easier to score, which he doesn't get with Sid or Geno, so lopsided in the favour of ES (as is the fact he doesn't need to conserve as much energy when not skating top 6 minutes). I don't know what I've done with the stats for years prior, but it was pretty close last year too.

As such, Rust's points scoring seems to me to basically be around the same regardless of who he's with. Hardly dominating anywhere other than with Sid.



I'm not a huge fan of Rust and Crosby, but it's fine. It works. Does Rust look himself there? Yes and no, sometimes not, sometimes he's trying a little too hard to make plays, but I don't think it's an outrageous impediment to him.

And, of course, if you're right that he dominates everywhere else when himself... it should show. And it doesn't. I can't think of the last time I looked at a string of Rust games away from Sid and thought "Wow, Rust is unplayable right now" like I can with most of our roster. That's the bit I'm really questioning. Rust's dominance elsewhere.

What I would like is if, now that Kessel's not here glued to Malkin and the opportunity is there, if Rust could click with Malkin and make that look silly.



How do you mean contribute? Get the same points? Get the same goal share as a unit? Have the same attributes?

Because points wise, Simon and ZAR had stronger rates albeit in less minutes, and Kahun scored a lot for Chicago, and I don't Tanev was much slower than Rust iirc. Simon and ZAR had better goal shares. Attributes, well, Tanev has them, and AJ and Di Pauli are both very quick down in WBS.

Do all of them have the same definite impact playing Rust's minutes game in game out here? Well... not sure yet, but with so many darts, probably some of them do. Rust isn't a common player, but the Pens have been really chasing guys like him and filling up there.

A Right handed shot, fast, can play anywhere in the line up, can get your 15-20 goals, can kill Penalties and come up big in clutch situations for 3.5 mil or less. If you think ZAR, Simon, Kahun, Tanev are gonna do that I think your me mistaken.