Sportsnet: Bryan Berard on his departure from Ottawa

[BoardsofCanada]

During the 2006 off-season, Havlát, a restricted free agent, told the Senators that he would only sign a one-year deal so he could then test the free agent market in the next off-season.[5] As a result, on July 9, 2006, Havlát was traded to the Chicago Blackhawks, along with Bryan Smolinski, in a three-way deal that also involved the San Jose Sharks acquiring Mark Bell for Tom Preissing and Josh Hennessy.[6] After the trade, Havlát signed a three-year, $18 million contract with the Blackhawks.

This is what Google says happened.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

During the 2006 off-season, Havlát, a restricted free agent, told the Senators that he would only sign a one-year deal so he could then test the free agent market in the next off-season.[5] As a result, on July 9, 2006, Havlát was traded to the Chicago Blackhawks, along with Bryan Smolinski, in a three-way deal that also involved the San Jose Sharks acquiring Mark Bell for Tom Preissing and Josh Hennessy.[6] After the trade, Havlát signed a three-year, $18 million contract with the Blackhawks.

This is what Google says happened.

Its a little more than a headline granted, but that does not provide a complete picture either imo. If that is the way he felt regardless of any conditions such as contract parameters discussed with the Sens sure we can conclude he very likely was at least anticipating a move. I always liked Havlat and felt his game was under appreciated by Martin.

 

[Sweatred]

I was just being nostalgic of better times,

But, having said that, of course we didn't want to pay him what he asked, that can be said for nearly every player that doesn't re-sign with a team.

I also think calling him a 3RW or suggesting that we would have been signing him as a 3RW a pretty misleading. His last season he was 4th in average icetime by over a min per game in the reg season and 5th in the post season. His linemates, Fisher and Schaefer were 5th and 6th in icetime with a significant gap over the next guy (Smolinski) in the reg season and 4th and 6th in the post season respectively. He was 4th in pts per game in the reg season, and 2nd in the post season.

He was our 3RW when we had Hossa and Alfie ahead of him, when we traded Hossa for a LW in Heatley, he became the defacto 2RW and that's what we would have been signing him to be. We just couldn't afford the luxury in a cap world of an injury prone elite 2nd line winger while paying big money for the Pizza line and Redden. We did do a lot of line juggling though, so number lines doesn't make a ton of sens, but Havlat was clearly the 4th best forward (I guess you could argue Fisher for his more well rounded game but he was a center so not really relevant), and the Pizza line had the 3 guys ahead of him.

Anyways, in the context of the team not re-signing guys, Havlat imo is in a different category than more recent decisions.

Havlat leaving lacked the emotional struggle from fans and the org appeared comfortable parting ways. Reminds me a bit of watching Volchenkov leave. Both good players that didn’t have a lot of push back to keep. I assume there is more that goes into these decisions than what he can guess or hear. Probably mostly cash. When I think about it ... EK wasn’t all that different. He didn’t really try to meet his demands (which I’m glad about).

 

[Micklebot]

Havlat leaving lacked the emotional struggle from fans and the org appeared comfortable parting ways. Reminds me a bit of watching Volchenkov leave. Both good players that didn’t have a lot of push back to keep. I assume there is more that goes into these decisions than what he can guess or hear. Probably mostly cash. When I think about it ... EK wasn’t all that different. He didn’t really try to meet his demands (which I’m glad about).

Havlat leaving was kind of buried under the Redden vs Chara debacle, fans had bigger emotional struggles to deal with...

 

[Frank8]

Who else refused to play for Ottawa/ requested a trade? Other than Berard, Yashin, Heatley and Tim Gleason

Pavol Demitra - What a team we would have been had he stayed.

 

[DrSense]

Pavol Demitra - What a team we would have been had he stayed.

Pavol never refused to play for Ottawa. Gauthier sent him to the minors because of contract disputes of Demitra wanting a one way deal, after being the top player in the AHL and easily one of the top 3 or 4 forwards on the Sens. He then traded him when the agent broached this as an issue.

Gauthier was trying to establish a respect in management after arriving after the Sexton fiasco and various other contract challenges where Sexton over-promised young players certain things, and overplayed his hand in a deal that will haunt him forever.

 

[Frank8]

Pavol never refused to play for Ottawa. Gauthier sent him to the minors because of contract disputes of Demitra wanting a one way deal, after being the top player in the AHL and easily one of the top 3 or 4 forwards on the Sens. He then traded him when the agent broached this as an issue.

Gauthier was trying to establish a respect in management after arriving after the Sexton fiasco and various other contract challenges where Sexton over-promised young players certain things, and overplayed his hand in a deal that will haunt him forever.

He held out until he was traded - maybe not an outright refusal, but I think it meets the qualifications of the initial question.

 

[playasRus]

Spezzas trade request wasn't really under the same circumstances. He was an aging vet nearing the end of his prime wanting a Cup. Not a rebuild. It was mutual.

If you include Spezza, might as well say Fisher demanded to be traded to his wife's city.

 

[DrSense]

He held out until he was traded - maybe not an outright refusal, but I think it meets the qualifications of the initial question.

He didn't have a contract and Gauthier insisted on a two-way deal, which was kind of a crazy idea at the time given he was one of our best forwards and had put his time in the AHL. "Holding out" infers he refused to honour his contract, and pretty sure he was an RFA stuck without a contract versus holding out.

 

[Masked]

Didn't Steve Duchesne ask for a trade?

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Haha F*CK Berard and what he thinks... both times he was traded, the team receiving the return package for Bryan always got the better players (Redden/Rhodes/Potvin) so goodriddens.

 

[guyzeur]

He didn't have a contract and Gauthier insisted on a two-way deal, which was kind of a crazy idea at the time given he was one of our best forwards and had put his time in the AHL. "Holding out" infers he refused to honour his contract, and pretty sure he was an RFA stuck without a contract versus holding out.

Gauthier was and still is a bum:

" From 1993 to 1995, he was the Assistant general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim. He left this position in 1995 to become the third general manager of the Ottawa Senators, signing a five-year contract. His time with Ottawa coincided with a turnaround in the team's fortunes. After the 1997–98 season he left his contract early, citing family issues, saying he would take time off to explore life away from hockey. Seventeen days later he was re-hired by the Ducks where he served as president and general manager.[1][2] He was fired in 2002 after Anaheim missed the playoffs for three consecutive seasons.

On July 21, 2003, Gauthier joined the Montreal Canadiens as Director of Professional Scouting. On July 24, 2006, he was named Assistant to the General Manager while keeping the responsibilities attached to professional scouting. On February 8, 2010, he was named Vice President and General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens.[3]

Gauthier had a very controversial year as the Canadiens general manager in 2011–12. Gauthier fired the team coach Jacques Martin mid-season with the team slumping.[4] Martin's replacement, Randy Cunneyworth, was chosen by Gauthier as the interim coach. Cunneyworth did not speak French, and this decision was heavily scrutinized by the Montreal media. There was outrage and protest among some Canadiens fans.[5][6]
Gauthier also incited the wrath of fans by trading 2010 playoff hero Michael Cammalleri to the Calgary Flames during a game against the Boston Bruins. Cammalleri had been critical of the organization in the days leading up to the trade,[7] and the move was perceived by many to be a response to those comments. When he learned of the trade, Cammalleri asked if he could keep the jersey from his final game as a souvenir. Gauthier told him he could have it for the price of $1,250.[8]
On March 29, 2012, the Montreal Canadiens announced Gauthier had been relieved of his duties as general manager of the team. He then joined the Chicago Blackhawks, as Director of Player Personnel and had his name engraved on the Stanley Cup in 2013 & later in 2015. So as to right Gauthier's wrong, the new management gifted Cammalleri with the jersey from his final game as a souvenir.[9]"

Pierre Gauthier - Wikipedia

 

[Stephen]

The Senators have always struggled with this. Like being a small market team wasn't enough, they are sandwiched between two of the biggest markets in Toronto and MTL, and they have always had to pay their players in USD with a struggling CAD currency. Jean Chretien also killed the Senators when he made it illegal for corporations to host government workers/officials at games. No corporate sponsorship in Ottawa whatsoever = frugal owner.

The Ottawa Senators threw money at Alexandre Daigle like drunken sailors just a couple of years before, which put them on bad terms with Alexei Yashin who was more productive and paid a lot less. Seem to recall they paid Radek Bonk a pretty big contract too at the time, so if they were exercising fiscal restraint with Berard, maybe that would have led to some problems.

 

[Speatleysson]

The Ottawa Senators threw money at Alexandre Daigle like drunken sailors just a couple of years before, which put them on bad terms with Alexei Yashin who was more productive and paid a lot less. Seem to recall they paid Radek Bonk a pretty big contract too at the time, so if they were exercising fiscal restraint with Berard, maybe that would have led to some problems.

That was before the law got passed, forcing the team to go up for sale a couple years after.

 

[rent free]

Why did Tim Gleason refuse to play for Ottawa?

I dont think thats true.

gleason refused to play in Canada and threatened to enter the re-entry draft, so that's why Ottawa dealt him

 

[bert]

gleason refused to play in Canada and threatened to enter the re-entry draft, so that's why Ottawa dealt him

No. He even attended two rookie camps here and was more than willing to play. They traded him because they were deep on the back end and one of the best teams in the league. They wanted to bolster the center depth by adding Smolinski. Also get outta here you're a leaf fan dont pretend to know anything about the sens you provide no substance to a topic you dont know anything about.

 

[bert]

During the 2006 off-season, Havlát, a restricted free agent, told the Senators that he would only sign a one-year deal so he could then test the free agent market in the next off-season.[5] As a result, on July 9, 2006, Havlát was traded to the Chicago Blackhawks, along with Bryan Smolinski, in a three-way deal that also involved the San Jose Sharks acquiring Mark Bell for Tom Preissing and Josh Hennessy.[6] After the trade, Havlát signed a three-year, $18 million contract with the Blackhawks.

This is what Google says happened.

It was also because they were pressed against the cap and he knew there wasnt room for him as they also had to make a decision on Redden and Chara that off season.

Haha F*CK Berard and what he thinks... both times he was traded, the team receiving the return package for Bryan always got the better players (Redden/Rhodes/Potvin) so goodriddens.

The sens got taken to the cleaners on that deal tbh. Look at the actual deal.

 

[Micklebot]

No. He even attended two rookie camps here and was more than willing to play. They traded him because they were deep on the back end and one of the best teams in the league. They wanted to bolster the center depth by adding Smolinski. Also get outta here you're a leaf fan dont pretend to know anything about the sens you provide no substance to a topic you dont know anything about.

I remember hearing rumours Gleason wasn't happy to be in Spezza's shadow (again) back when we drafted him. Also, we couldn't come to terms on a contract with him, which was the reported reason we traded him at the time, so there's more to this than just having a deep blue line and wanting to flip some for center depth.

 

[BondraTime]

We won the trade because Paul is currently a better player than Spezza

Is he though?

 

[DrSense]

The sens got taken to the cleaners on that deal tbh. Look at the actual deal.

Yeah, people forget about how good Straka became - he could have been a terrific center for us for a long time, and he also played extremely well with Alfie at that time - they had real chemistry.

Berard's injuries basically 'righted' the deal for us, because Redden was part of our core for so long, but overall, we gave up more talent than we got back for sure, even though the deal doesn't look bad given we got the player in the deal with arguably the most value and best career in Redden.

 

[bert]

Yeah, people forget about how good Straka became - he could have been a terrific center for us for a long time, and he also played extremely well with Alfie at that time - they had real chemistry.

Berard's injuries basically 'righted' the deal for us, because Redden was part of our core for so long, but overall, we gave up more talent than we got back for sure, even though the deal doesn't look bad given we got the player in the deal with arguably the most value and best career in Redden.

Berards injury is the major difference in my opinion. Basing the deal off a freak situation that literally happened against the sens makes it hard to compare.

Hard to say who was more valuable in their careers Straka or Redden. Id lean towards Redden but Straka was really good too.

 

[NyQuil]

Havlat leaving lacked the emotional struggle from fans and the org appeared comfortable parting ways. Reminds me a bit of watching Volchenkov leave. Both good players that didn’t have a lot of push back to keep.

Yeah, as a moderator around here during that time, I'd have to disagree.

What may be surprising to hear is that the Havlat/Hossa/Alfredsson camps were fairly evenly represented among the fans on this board. It was recognized that Ottawa couldn't hold on to all three and the three-sided debate was quite heated and vicious.

There was legitimate support for Alfredsson being moved out for Craig Conroy (when that rumor started floating around). The accompanying opinion is that Alfredsson was a perennial loser and you couldn't strip the "C" from his chest and keep him on the team.

Meanwhile, Hossa was a tremendous worker and offensive threat but seen as less of an offensive catalyst who could elevate the play of his linemates. His offensive output was viewed as largely derived from his own physical frame and abilities. (much as Duchene was regarded)

Havlat was seen by some as the most talented and skilled forward who had never really been given the opportunity to succeed as the others had.

The counter-argument was that he was indifferent defensively at times, could be seen as injury prone and didn't have to face the kind of defensive attention that the other two did.

People were still citing Havlat games and his PPG seasons in Chicago in posts around here long after he was gone - much as people still keep track of Zibanejad's production.

With hindsight, Havlat seems like the obvious third man out, but it didn't necessarily seem that way to a sizable number of fans at the time.

With respect to Volchenkov, I think everyone knew that his body just wasn't up to it anymore and that a long-term commitment wasn't wise. I see more similarity with Turris' demands for a long-term contract. I like Turris and he was a good fit here, but even I had to blink at his apparent demands and term.

With Havlat, his best seasons were still to come.

 

[Sweatred]

Yeah, as a moderator around here during that time, I'd have to disagree.

What may be surprising to hear is that the Havlat/Hossa/Alfredsson camps were fairly evenly represented among the fans on this board. It was recognized that Ottawa couldn't hold on to all three and the three-sided debate was quite heated and vicious.

There was legitimate support for Alfredsson being moved out for Craig Conroy (when that rumor started floating around). The accompanying opinion is that Alfredsson was a perennial loser and you couldn't strip the "C" from his chest and keep him on the team.

Meanwhile, Hossa was a tremendous worker and offensive threat but seen as less of an offensive catalyst who could elevate the play of his linemates. His offensive output was viewed as largely derived from his own physical frame and abilities. (much as Duchene was regarded)

Havlat was seen by some as the most talented and skilled forward who had never really been given the opportunity to succeed as the others had.

The counter-argument was that he was indifferent defensively at times, could be seen as injury prone and didn't have to face the kind of defensive attention that the other two did.

People were still citing Havlat games and his PPG seasons in Chicago in posts around here long after he was gone - much as people still keep track of Zibanejad's production.

With hindsight, Havlat seems like the obvious third man out, but it didn't necessarily seem that way to a sizable number of fans at the time.

With respect to Volchenkov, I think everyone knew that his body just wasn't up to it anymore and that a long-term commitment wasn't wise. I see more similarity with Turris' demands for a long-term contract. I like Turris and he was a good fit here, but even I had to blink at his apparent demands and term.

With Havlat, his best seasons were still to come.

My point was Havlat leaving was much quieter than Alferdson or Heatley/Hossa leaving.

 

[NyQuil]

My point was Havlat leaving was much quieter than Alfredsson or Heatley/Hossa leaving.

The organization itself was on a much different footing in each of those cases.

Personally, I'd argue that Hossa and Havlat were more similar than Alfredsson.

Fans of Hossa and Havlat were incensed, but there were no significant alarms being raised by the fanbase as a unified group.

If anything, there was less push-back for Hossa leaving in that we received a superstar in return - unlike with the Havlat deal where all we got was cap relief and a third-pairing defencemen that we could sneak into the lineup with his $600K salary.

The impact on Chara's willingness to stay was not immediately known.

Ultimately, both were moves that could be perceived as motivated by the imposition of the cap. Heatley's original cap hit over three years was a bargain at $4.5M.

Alfredsson departing was regarded as more of a symptom of what was happening with the Senators organization and its owner as a whole.

 

[topshelf15]

Interesting listen, seems like Melnyk isn’t the first Sens owner to not want to pay their players. Berard basically says he wanted to play for Ottawa but they didnt want to pay him like other first overall picks were being paid and they couldn’t come to terms on his ELC. He set the record straight that he has nothing against the city of Ottawa or Sens fans so I think all can be forgiven now. At the Time everyone in Ottawa hated Berard for this, the media portrayed it as him refusing to play for the Sens but now it seems ownership was to blame for the whole fiasco.

Small ownership...Its been our bain since inception...