Proposal: Bruins Trade Proposals

[Rumpy]

Bruins paid backes based off what he did in his mid 30s. I’ll take the next 3 years of Simmonds over the next 3 years of backes all day.

Who wouldn’t? But you’re making the same mistake all over again. Do you want to put Simmonds in every fake trade 3 years from now or have him be someone else’s 6 M dollar problem?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

In what world has the overrated Backes had a better career than Simmonds? Just because Sweeney paid for 2010 David Backes doesn't mean he's even in the same category as Simmonds. Backes and his paper skull couldn't hold Simmonds jock now or ever.

Then again, your cousin said it so who am I or anyone else to question that?

david backed 858 games... 237 goals.. 531 points... +65... 2046 hits... 7 times received votes for selke including 4 times in the top 5

wayne Simmonds 762 games... 226 goals... 444 points... a -46... only 995 hits... only once received votes for the selke

in what universe could you possibly argue backes career wasn't vastly superior to Simmonds?

 

[Don Cherry]

david backed 858 games... 237 goals.. 531 points... +65... 2046 hits... 7 times received votes for selke including 4 times in the top 5

wayne Simmonds 762 games... 226 goals... 444 points... a -46... only 995 hits... only once received votes for the selke

in what universe could you possibly argue backes career wasn't vastly superior to Simmonds?

Sorry, still not seeing it. Even their stats look pretty close with Simmonds playing in 100 less games. I guess we'll have to compare their stats more closely when their careers are done. Backes career is basically done either now or the next time he takes a hit while Simmonds will be done in 6-7 years. I'm guessing Simmonds take it.

 

[Ratty]

Bruins paid backes based off what he did in his mid 30s. I’ll take the next 3 years of Simmonds over the next 3 years of backes all day.

You said that Backes is 34, which is correct. So how could Sweeney have paid him off of what he did in his mid thirties? Isn't he just entering that phase of his career?

 

[ON3M4N]

im going to guess most people that add him to trade proposals are just good at math

future cap hit PLUS potential return value in a trade MINUS competition for available roster spots divisible by how to manage a winning roster = his name sometimes popping up in trade discussion

im not saying that its a guarantee he needs to be dealt... but for a couple years now ive been pointing out we got too many good left hand shot smallish wingers and there wont end up being long term jobs for all of them when the dust settles.

Heinen will need to either have a higher end ceiling or a lower cap contract cost if he wants to improve his chances of staying here. I think his main competition is donato and to a lesser extent Bjork. I think marchand and debrusk are established... pastranak is established. backes is a different case.

4 spots seem spoken for and then Heinen/donato are competing. Bjork/senshyn are waiting in the wings. federic/jfk might end up factoring in. only 2 jobs and a lot of competition. being cheaper cap hit will be an advantage but don't think Heinen will end up being cheap

So people want to offer him up in deals and then hope and pray that these other guys pan out? Doesn't seem like good asset management. Again Heinen is such a plug and play, up and down the lineup and his style can compliment just about anyone...why would you want to give that up? Just seems odd that you have a guy who produced similar to DeBrusk (who many consider untouchable) is expandable by those seem people because of some prospect that we still have no idea how they'll turn out.

To me Heinen is a guy that is so versatile that he allows you change your lines around when guys go down. He can play all situations and is solid in the Tk/Gv ratio department (only Riley Nash was better on the B's last year). Not to mention those "higher ceiling/high end talent guys" are going to cost a lot more to keep when/if they pan out.

I do agree that we don't have room for everyone, but I don't see the point in trading a guy like Heinen when you're still unsure of what you have in some of these other guys.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So people want to offer him up in deals and then hope and pray that these other guys pan out? Doesn't seem like good asset management. Again Heinen is such a plug and play, up and down the lineup and his style can compliment just about anyone...why would you want to give that up? Just seems odd that you have a guy who produced similar to DeBrusk (who many consider untouchable) is expandable by those seem people because of some prospect that we still have no idea how they'll turn out.

To me Heinen is a guy that is so versatile that he allows you change your lines around when guys go down. He can play all situations and is solid in the Tk/Gv ratio department (only Riley Nash was better on the B's last year). Not to mention those "higher ceiling/high end talent guys" are going to cost a lot more to keep when/if they pan out.

I do agree that we don't have room for everyone, but I don't see the point in trading a guy like Heinen when you're still unsure of what you have in some of these other guys.

the way these guys get their jobs and then keep their jobs is... someone thinks they can evaluate talent. I don't have a job with an nhl team. no one is paying me 50k or 100k to make these decesions. and if the concern is just about 'fan proposals' then that's true for the rest of us here. it might frustrate some here to see their favorite player in the proposals being made... but no amount of proposals here in hf is going to ever amount to anything worth a damn because none of us have that sort of decision power

there are guys who do however... and I like to take my stab to point out how they might be thinking cause I find it an interesting debate. im no mind reader... no insider... I might be 100% wrong but here is how I would be thinking

start at center ice

Bergeron is the guy I want bruin fans to be talking about 50 years from now... he retires a bruin and becomes an ambassador to the team when hes done

krejci… a bit inconsistent... definitely highly paid... seems a big money player... is now old enough hes slowing down... im not ready to run him out of town but there has to be some serious thoughts put in here what to do

kuraly… seems to have limited offense but if the cost stays right, seems like a very nice option for 4th line with some short term potential to add energy to a 3rd line

wagner… new guy... price is right... we shall see what happens

moving to wing...top pair

marchand… has been defying all odds getting better and better and better every game. fascinated to see if theres still room to grow

pastrnak… that playoff performance makes me desperate to see what will happen next.

second pair

debrusk… has taken the lead among the 'kids' if he doesn't drop the ball, he has a job here for the foreseeable future

and ??? who fits here??? is this the spot Heinen will be able to solidify his future? its meant for a right hand shot. will senshyn be the guy? will donato or Bjork be the guy? all 3 are going to be cheaper I think. will any be as good?

third pair

looks like backes is locked in here... contract is what contract is. we might not like it but it is a reality.

then the other spot that isn't nailed down... and who gets it? right now this is Heinen's spot. but will Heinen price himself out of this spot? if Heinen puts up 55-60 points will we be able to afford him? even at 40-45 points?

this is probably how the team is thinking... and I didn't even mention guys like jfk and federic.

for this next season... there is no panic. we could keep the status quo and let this season play out. nothing is forcing our hand this season. but I don't think anyone is talking about trading Heinen based on this season.

its more about managing the cap/roster for next year. if we believe there is a problem next year... we start trying to proactively address it this year. if we could put someone onto the team this year that might fit the projected plans for next year... then that's where heinen's name might enter the conversation.

I hope no one is saying Heinen sucks... or doesn't have value. in fact, its the opposite. I think we mostly feel he does have value and that he will be good enough to get a great contract. that's why we are worried we cant keep him

 

[UncleRico]

So you would sign Backes to the same “mistake deal” Sweeney did. Interesting ...

I hope those in charge learnt from past mistakes?

Backes was 32 when we signed him. Simmonds is 29. Pretty solid difference right there.

 

[UncleRico]

Am I the only one that feels like Heinen gets added to deals because he doesn't have that high end talent label? I really don't get it lol. He's a low maintenance 3-zone player that put up nearly 50 points his rookie year in a 3rd line role. He's a guy that as he gets older will help stabilize any line because his style fits with some many other players. Reminds me a lot of a Loui Eriksson.

I will never understand people who put Heinen in trades as a throw in. He had an incredible rookie year in all 3 zones and put up points in a rather limited role. I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing him on a line with debrusk and Krejci if he can play his off wing.

 

[Rumpy]

Backes was 32 when we signed him. Simmonds is 29. Pretty solid difference right there.

Agree to disagree both will be mistakes.

Bruins aren’t in line to pay someone big money long term anyway so he will be another teams problem.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Backes was 32 when we signed him. Simmonds is 29. Pretty solid difference right there.

Backes contract started when he was 32, Simmonds contract will start when he is 30. So year that is different, but Simmonds body is already breaking down fairly badly.

Saw this writeup from a Philly site, sure doesn't seem like a guy you'd want to commit to for the next 6/7 years

2017-18 Player Review: Wayne Simmonds - He’s the ultimate warrior, but at what cost?

 

[BadBruins]

Backes was 32 when we signed him. Simmonds is 29. Pretty solid difference right there.

Simmonds turns 30 in a couple weeks.... Coming off what was probably his worst offensive season since he was 22 in LA....

Also numbers say he's a guy who needs the PP to produce.....

ES Points Last two years:

Backes - 57 Points/131 Games
Simmonds - 55 Points/157 Games

ES points Career:

Simmonds - 291 Points/762 Games
Backes - 397 Points/858 Games

Not a Backes guy myself, but he gets it done if you're looking for a middle versatile forward who plays a heavy style....When healthy that is. Not a significant upgrade IMO.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Sorry, still not seeing it. Even their stats look pretty close with Simmonds playing in 100 less games. I guess we'll have to compare their stats more closely when their careers are done. Backes career is basically done either now or the next time he takes a hit while Simmonds will be done in 6-7 years. I'm guessing Simmonds take it.

You should back off your stance that Simmonds career was vastly superior and maybe attempt to argue that Simmonds future might look brighter.

the ONLY major citatory Simmonds is close to backes is goals. I actually included it to show backes was close to Simmonds. backes was never the pp specialist like Simmonds was, but the goal scoring is still neck and neck. points... not... plus/minus not even in the same ballpark... Simmonds is supposed to be a power forward but hits aren't even 1/2 of backes. and backes is an elite defensive player on top of his offense. backes had an added benefit of a 51% in the faceoff circle

you might have a case that Simmonds future the next 2-3 years is probably looking better than backes and his last 2 years are probably better too. most of us have to agree with that. but you said backes was overrated in his career. you are just flat out wrong if you are trying to argue Simmonds having a better career

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Carlo and Heinen for Horvat. We probably still need to add but that's still our teams biggest need.

Nope. Probably need to toss in Pastrnak with that package. Remember: this is Bo Horvat we're talking about. No such thing as giving up too much for talent that is truly transcendent.

 

[GloveSave1]

Nope. Probably need to toss in Pastrnak with that package. Remember: this is Bo Horvat we're talking about. No such thing as giving up too much for talent that is truly transcendent.

That trade is going to give me nightmares. And you don’t even need to throw in Pasta. Thanks a lot.

 

[GloveSave1]

Unexciting, but probably in the ballpark:

Adam McQuaid - Boston
6th Round pick 2019
<->
Nathan Bastian - New Jersey

But we’re here for interesting:

Tuukka Rask - Boston
Adam McQuaid
<->
Cory Schneider - New Jersey
Devante Smith-Pelly (dead money)

 

[DKH]

I agree

But if you want Simmonds, you have to pay a heavy price to get him, and you get him for ONE year. If you want to get him for 3 years, you are almost certainly going to have to pay him for 7 years (ie 6 year extension)

And those final 3-4 are likely going to start to get very ugly

Wayne Simmonds turns 30 two weeks from today

The Bruins will be needing to pay their own not for what Simmonds did 3 years ago with Philadelphia

Isn’t that the complaint with Backes and Beleskey they were paid for what they had previously done or just did

Say n0 to 30 yrsr olds looking to relocate and cash in

If he was already a Bruins better chance but moving to a new city and team can interrupt a lot of things and familiarity and comfort don’t exist

Super hard pass

I’d rather pay DeBrusk Heinen McAvoy Donato etc

 

[wintersej]

Backes is 34 and on the last legs of his career. Simmonds is 29 with many years left. I’ll take Simmonds over the next three years.

Perhaps, but in three years I would rather have an expired Backes contract than be paying Simmonds.

 

[BruinDust]

Unexciting, but probably in the ballpark:

Adam McQuaid - Boston
6th Round pick 2019
<->
Nathan Bastian - New Jersey

But we’re here for interesting:

Tuukka Rask - Boston
Adam McQuaid
<->
Cory Schneider - New Jersey
Devante Smith-Pelly (dead money)

Schenider lost his starting job to Keith Kinkaid at times last year and into the playoffs.

Meanwhile Tuukka Rask went almost 2 months without a regulation lose.

Would feel a lot like when Boston traded Moog for Casey. Change for the sake of change, meanwhile the Bruins actually downgrade in goal. Rask > Schneider.

And you can't trade buy-out commitments once the buy-out has occured they way your suggesting they do it with Smith-Pelley's buyout.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

if im wayne Simmonds and im turning 30 this month with only 23.85 million dollars in career earnings... im probably feeling quite underpaid for my career. I am NOT looking for another under market contract. I am also NOT looking for a short term contract that just takes me further past my prime

he doesn't have the luxury of having 30-40 million in the bank like these other guys that started earning 6 mill a year at age 21-22. he needs his payday now, or its never going to happen

imho... he has enough fans that some team is going to think hes the ONE... he could be the DIFFERENCE MAKER... but hope to god that team IS NOT us. honestly... he wouldn't be the ONE for us. He would just be a pretty decent second liner for us. I don't even think he could make the first pp unit here and he basically makes his bread and butter as a pp specialist.

If the contract was right... id welcome him to the team with wide open eyes. I like this player. hes a good player. but its all about the contract. and I cant see us getting him on any contract that would ever make sense

philly needs this sort of player themselves... so why trade him? they are a playoff contender. they need him. why would they trade him unless hes a contract problem?

we don't need a contract problem any more than philly needs one.

good player... but not the right player. the math doesn't add up. would have loved him here 3 years ago on his last contract... he was great value. but unless you can get him signed for another bargain then I say no thanks

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Schenider lost his starting job to Keith Kinkaid at times last year and into the playoffs.

Meanwhile Tuukka Rask went almost 2 months without a regulation lose.

Would feel a lot like when Boston traded Moog for Casey. Change for the sake of change, meanwhile the Bruins actually downgrade in goal. Rask > Schneider.

And you can't trade buy-out commitments once the buy-out has occured they way your suggesting they do it with Smith-Pelley's buyout.

Yeah, it makes no sense at all for me.

Rask is one year younger than Schneider, and has been a demonstrably better player every season they've been starters other than 2015/16.

In terms of contracts, Schneider is rightfully paid 1 million less per year, but his contract runs for 1 extra season.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

So no rumors or anything, gotta think Moore being here means a dee is going move eventually. I would not entertain moving Carlo or Heinen. I like them and they are solid, lets see how much better they get. What we need is a 3rd line center or a power forward RW. I think we will see who grabs it internally and if not they go out and make a deal.

 

[ON3M4N]

So no rumors or anything, gotta think Moore being here means a dee is going move eventually. I would not entertain moving Carlo or Heinen. I like them and they are solid, lets see how much better they get. What we need is a 3rd line center or a power forward RW. I think we will see who grabs it internally and if not they go out and make a deal.

They could move someone, but last year was proof that we can never have enough quality d-men. If they do look to move someone, I think McQuaid could be the odd man out. He's a UFA at the end of this year, good 3rd pairing, team first guy whose only owed $2 million in actual money.

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

So no rumors or anything, gotta think Moore being here means a dee is going move eventually. I would not entertain moving Carlo or Heinen. I like them and they are solid, lets see how much better they get. What we need is a 3rd line center or a power forward RW. I think we will see who grabs it internally and if not they go out and make a deal.

Eventually a D will go but i think they want to see 2 things. One is the health of Krug and Carlo on the ice. Two is how close guys like Zboril and Vaakanainen are if they had to jump into the lineup. Once they have those answers I’m sure one of those guys will be dealt off for what they think they need.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

They could move someone, but last year was proof that we can never have enough quality d-men. If they do look to move someone, I think McQuaid could be the odd man out. He's a UFA at the end of this year, good 3rd pairing, team first guy whose only owed $2 million in actual money.

I see that as the smartest move but his cap hit is 2.75 and that is what matters. Package him with a pic and prospect to get what we can get.

 

[UncleRico]

The one guy I’m most interested in is panarin. Not sure what my trade proposal would be, but I would offer up a solid amount to get panarin in here for a top 6 role. Roughly something like this and contingent on panarin signing a long term deal.

To CBJ:

Krug
Bjork
1st

To Boston:
Panarin
Harrington

Put panarin on Krejci win and have Harrington be the 4th LHD behind Getz

Marchand-Bergy-pasta
Debrusk-Krejci-panarin
Heinen-(jfk/stud/frederic)-backes
Kuraly-Wagner-acciari
Nordstrom-donato (donato starts in AHL but call up for injury)

Chara-McAvoy
Moore-Carlo
Gryz-Miller
Harrington-McQuaid

Rask
Halak

MCAvoy gets PP1 and gryz gets PP2. That top 6 would be absolute fire.