Prospect Info: Bruins Prospects XII- Stay on subject!

[Dangleittus13]

Boston only had 5 picks this draft?

58, 89, 151, 182 and 213????

 

[The Laukomotive]

Boston only had 5 picks this draft?

58, 89, 151, 182 and 213????

It's 5 out of 7 though. But yes, those are the 5 picks. First traded with Axel Andersson to dump Backes and get Kase and the 4th was part of the package for Marcus Johansson.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

It's 5 out of 7 though. But yes, those are the 5 picks. First traded with Axel Andersson to dump Backes and get Kase and the 4th was part of the package for Marcus Johansson.

The trade that sent a first-round pick to Anaheim resulted in a better player than you’re likely to get at No. 25 - No. 31 in the draft anyways. That’s still a great trade for a young player and awesome value considering he can help now, tomorrow, next year and many more afterwards.

Boston got indefinite help for their first-round pick. I’d make that trade 10/10 times again, personally.

 

[Son of Donegal]

The trade that sent a first-round pick to Anaheim resulted in a better player than you’re likely to get at No. 25 - No. 31 in the draft anyways. That’s still a great trade for a young player and awesome value considering he can help now, tomorrow, next year and many more afterwards.

Boston got indefinite help for their first-round pick. I’d make that trade 10/10 times again, personally.

Kase plays like a top-6 forward most nights. He produces nearly as many scoring chances as an average 1st line player. If only he produced. I truly hope he uses the shooter tutor in the offseason. If he developed his shot and release...he could be great. Until then, he is Carl Hagelin.

 

[DominicT]

If you're looking for jam and grit with a ton of upside, get on the Wisdom train with @lost peanut

I'm not smart enough to say I am on the wisdom train. But I appreciate the comment.

Oh wait, you meant the Zayde Wisdom train

 

[Dr Hook]

Kase plays like a top-6 forward most nights. He produces nearly as many scoring chances as an average 1st line player. If only he produced. I truly hope he uses the shooter tutor in the offseason. If he developed his shot and release...he could be great. Until then, he is Carl Hagelin.

If he can stay healthy and get some time to gel with the team, Cassidy's system, and his linemates, he will be a top 6 talent. Like you, I wish his shot was better, but he popped 20 in his sophomore season with the Ducks. He'll be a good acquisition, if he avoids getting injured. So far his track record there isn't the greatest.

 

[Son of Donegal]

If he can stay healthy and get some time to gel with the team, Cassidy's system, and his linemates, he will be a top 6 talent. Like you, I wish his shot was better, but he popped 20 in his sophomore season with the Ducks. He'll be a good acquisition, if he avoids getting injured. So far his track record there isn't the greatest.

He took some hits with the B's this season and I thought...he is TOAST...but he gets up with this look of utter surprise (like..."what just happened?") and keeps playing. I don't think he is very self-aware...especially of where his head is in relation to opponents shoulders. He is fast, skilled, creative...foolishly courageous...and I don't think he understands that people are trying to inflict pain upon him.

 

[Dr Hook]

He took some hits with the B's this season and I thought...he is TOAST...but he got up and kept playing. I don't think he is very self-aware...especially of where his head is, in relation to opponents shoulders. He is fast, skilled, creative...but I don't think he understands that people are trying to inflict pain upon him.

He need to spend some time with Marchand who everyone is trying to kill and who almost never gets smashed

 

[aguineapig]

I'm not smart enough to say I am on the wisdom train. But I appreciate the comment.

Oh wait, you meant the Zayde Wisdom train

In the mock draft thread, OHL writer's Brock has a mock draft with the B's picking you know who in the second round. He states" few work as hard or are as motivated". If the people in the know vouch for Zayde, why that's all I need to know. Minor detail I know but with Phoenix forfeit of their second rounder we bump up a pick.

 

[DominicT]

In the mock draft thread, OHL writer's Brock has a mock draft with the B's picking you know who in the second round. He states" few work as hard or are as motivated". If the people in the know vouch for Zayde, why that's all I need to know. Minor detail I know but with Phoenix forfeit of their second rounder we bump up a pick.

I don't want to derail the thread as @BrainOfJ attempted because it probably belongs in the draft thread, but since we are talking about Wisdom, I have to say this:

If you listen to all the "self made experts" out there, they'll tell you Wisdom was a beneficiary of playing with Shane Wright. Not entirely true. While Wright was getting accustomed to playing in the OHL against much older players in most cases, Wisdom carried the team offensively. The numbers don't lie.

Wisdom wasn't on anyone's rankings to start the season. Regrettably, I even left him off mine. It took me about 10 games to see that hey, he belongs on a list somewhere. There wasn't a lot to watch in Kingston for the draft, but everyone wanted a look at Wright. And that's when Wisdom started appearing on lists.

I had him topping out as a third line winger in the NHL who could provide some offence and a ton of energy and could move up in the lineup in a pinch when necessary.

 

[Ratty]

Boston only had 5 picks this draft?

58, 89, 151, 182 and 213????

Could be six if Sweeney sells Torey to the highest bidder.

 

[Tbaybruin]

The trade that sent a first-round pick to Anaheim resulted in a better player than you’re likely to get at No. 25 - No. 31 in the draft anyways. That’s still a great trade for a young player and awesome value considering he can help now, tomorrow, next year and many more afterwards.

Boston got indefinite help for their first-round pick. I’d make that trade 10/10 times again, personally.

Trade was ok but no team on the planet trades a late first rounder for Kase. Not this day and age.

 

[Son of Donegal]

Trade was ok but no team on the planet trades a late first rounder for Kase. Not this day and age.

You understand a significant part of that deal was the Backes salary dump, correct?

 

[Tbaybruin]

Sure do. I was referring to the fact that he said Kase is the kind of player you would or should get at that point in the draft. He actually said Kase is probably a better player then you would get at that point in the draft. To me that’s not how it works. Could get a Pasta or a meatball at that point. I take my chances with the pick

 

[BruinsNetwork]

Sure do. I was referring to the fact that he said Kase is the kind of player you would or should get at that point in the draft. He actually said Kase is probably a better player then you would get at that point in the draft. To me that’s not how it works. Could get a Pasta or a meatball at that point. I take my chances with the pick

Bolded No. 1: Yes I did say that and I am correct if you look at past drafts and percentages of prospect success from those positions.

Bold No. 2: No, not really. Using Pastrnak’s name there isn’t helping your case— it’s helping mine. Go on HockeyDB and look at the past drafts to see why. Actually, I can tell you why. You’ll be searching all the way back to the 2003 draft, 17 years (!) ago to find someone who’s had somewhat similar production to Pastrnak. Corey Perry.

Aside from Corey Perry there, who’s also an outlier, the next crop shrinks to Kyle Palmieri and Rickard Rakell. Palmieri is a fine player, as is Rakell, but neither are Pastrnak. I’ll even give you Shea Theodore as well as he was drafted in that range.

Palmieri and Rakell, two players taken in that range and are better than Kase right now, is what you’re looking at over the last 17 drafts in the NHL.

Pastrnak, Perry and like I said, Theodore I’ll give you, are the exceptional (definitely Pastrnak and Perry, whereas Theodore is up for debate) three players. In the last 17 years. Three exceptional players taken in the range of 25 to the end of the first-round.

You’re far more likely to find and draft someone less talented than Ondrej Kase there. So yes, the “meatball” is far more likely to be drafted than Pastrnak.

 

[maxbme]

Got a chance to check Roman Bychkov playing the VHL for the first time today.

Sweeney has a type, and Bychkov definitely fits the mold. 5'11", smooth and quick skater and seems to be a nice distributor. Not sure if clap bombs like Berglund but I clipped his goal on the 2 man advantage and its a rocket.

He's #27 in blue. Video looks frozen for the first 2 seconds, no idea why.

 

[TCB]

Bolded No. 1: Yes I did say that and I am correct if you look at past drafts and percentages of prospect success from those positions.

Bold No. 2: No, not really. Using Pastrnak’s name there isn’t helping your case— it’s helping mine. Go on HockeyDB and look at the past drafts to see why. Actually, I can tell you why. You’ll be searching all the way back to the 2003 draft, 17 years (!) ago to find someone who’s had somewhat similar production to Pastrnak. Corey Perry.

Aside from Corey Perry there, who’s also an outlier, the next crop shrinks to Kyle Palmieri and Rickard Rakell. Palmieri is a fine player, as is Rakell, but neither are Pastrnak. I’ll even give you Shea Theodore as well as he was drafted in that range.

Palmieri and Rakell, two players taken in that range and are better than Kase right now, is what you’re looking at over the last 17 drafts in the NHL.

Pastrnak, Perry and like I said, Theodore I’ll give you, are the exceptional (definitely Pastrnak and Perry, whereas Theodore is up for debate) three players. In the last 17 years. Three exceptional players taken in the range of 25 to the end of the first-round.

You’re far more likely to find and draft someone less talented than Ondrej Kase there. So yes, the “meatball” is far more likely to be drafted than Pastrnak.

Yeah to me its a no Brainer. Kase is an NHLer with upside, keyword NHLer. Obviously Anaheim thinks Andersson is going to be a player or no way they do that deal.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Bolded No. 1: Yes I did say that and I am correct if you look at past drafts and percentages of prospect success from those positions.

Bold No. 2: No, not really. Using Pastrnak’s name there isn’t helping your case— it’s helping mine. Go on HockeyDB and look at the past drafts to see why. Actually, I can tell you why. You’ll be searching all the way back to the 2003 draft, 17 years (!) ago to find someone who’s had somewhat similar production to Pastrnak. Corey Perry.

Aside from Corey Perry there, who’s also an outlier, the next crop shrinks to Kyle Palmieri and Rickard Rakell. Palmieri is a fine player, as is Rakell, but neither are Pastrnak. I’ll even give you Shea Theodore as well as he was drafted in that range.

Palmieri and Rakell, two players taken in that range and are better than Kase right now, is what you’re looking at over the last 17 drafts in the NHL.

Pastrnak, Perry and like I said, Theodore I’ll give you, are the exceptional (definitely Pastrnak and Perry, whereas Theodore is up for debate) three players. In the last 17 years. Three exceptional players taken in the range of 25 to the end of the first-round.

You’re far more likely to find and draft someone less talented than Ondrej Kase there. So yes, the “meatball” is far more likely to be drafted than Pastrnak.

Oh I agree but that’s not how the draft works. It’s all about potential. My argument is would you trade that pick for Kase? No way. Teams rarely do.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

Yeah to me its a no Brainer. Kase is an NHLer with upside, keyword NHLer. Obviously Anaheim thinks Andersson is going to be a player or no way they do that deal.

Axel may very well be a quality player, but I’m just not fan and haven’t seen anything that stands up, to be honest. I’ve had hundreds of conversations with @Saxon Eric about him actually and he’ll tell you my stance.

He’s got upside, mobility and the fleet-footed element you want from any modern defender. I just don’t see the puck skills and conviction is his game that would make him anything more than a bottom-pair specialist/bottom-pair+ player.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

i havent had any fun doing fantay roster's for the Bruins for the past 4-5 years... I guess in large part to the cap, but also our team was basically set and we really werent going to do a lot except try to develop kids to fill holes.

all this talk from Sweeney and neely this year has me feeling pretty excited at least 1 and maybe 2 major changes are coming in the next couple weeks

so... I did some fanciful/unrealistic ideas but I thought I would really put myself to the test and try my damn best to put a realistic idea forward that we might end up seeing for real.

It starts with the rumored Arizona trade
**************************************

our targets are
Oliver Ekman Larsson {$8,250,000 X 7} {we need Arizona to retain 1 mill per year}
Taylor Hall {{$9,850,000 X 7} currently an UFA

our bait I hope Arizona will accept is
Jake Debrusk {RFA} has some ties to the Arizona area
Matt Grezlyck {RFA} he is a legitimate dman who might still have upside
Andres Bjork {$1,600,000 x 3} a fairly affordable 3rd line depth player}
Chris Wagner {$1,350,000 x 3} some character for their bottom line}
Urho Vaikanainen {$0,894,167 x 2} He will be a player
our 2021 first round pick... basically this is the price we pay to get Arizona to retain}

Arizona potentially fills 5 holes in their lineup for around 11.5 million compared to 2 holes at 14 mill... this will help them save a lot of money and it improves their depth. Sadly they choose themselves to rebuild. It's not our fault. I dont think anyone else would be beating this offer for Larsson. It might sound like too much from Boston but Larsson is a lot better than most people think. His heart was taken out by how crappy the Arizona situation has become... and he hated being the captain there and forced to explain the team to the press. This is a guy that absolutely dominates world competition when he has a chance to play on a better team.

To clear room in our budget to sign Hall we must deal Krejci or Rask
****************************************************************

Our new target is
Josh Anderson {RFA} 6'3 and 225... 26 years old. He has twice scored 20+ goals over a full season {19 in 63 games once} and he has been credited with throwing his huge body around for over 2 hits per game throughout his career. Columbus for some reason has played hardball on contract negotiations and last year Anderson was clearly very unhappy and his play struggled. I am suggesting we lock him up on a 3 year deal at 3 million.

The bait
David Krejci {$7,250,000 x 1} Boston will have to eat some cap to make this work for Columbus... I am thinking $2,250... its a one year hit Columbus should use Jenner on their third line... they are rumored buying out Wennberg. Dubois is a legit first line stud. Krecji makes sense for them to resign as their number 2 center.

I want to keep this all realistic so Im holding mself to just 2 trades... the other moves are free agent signings.

RESIGN
Zdeno Chara {1 x 1 mill base with a mill in earnable bonuses}
Taylor Hall {7 x 8.85 mill {this is almost the same money Tyler Seguin is making the next 7 years... make up the missing million per year by front loading signing bonuses}

Market UFA
Bobby Ryan {give him almost the same contract as Corey Perry 1 mill base with 2 mill in bonuses}

Our finished lineup
******************
Taylor Hall/Charlie Coyle/David Pastrnak
Brad Marchand/Patrice Bergeron/Ondrej Kase
Bobby Ryan/Jack Studnicka/Josh Anderson
Nick Ritchie/Sean Kuraly/Zach Senyshyn
Par Lindholm

{13 forwards... Senshyn gets a try to keep a job but if he fails we bring up Karson Kuhlman who is capable as a 4th line forward. Ritchie will either perform or lose his job to Trent Federic.}

Did you know?
Ondrej Kase is 50% 7/14 in career shootouts
Bobby Ryan is 21/61 a healthy 34.1%

wouldnt it be nice to win a few shootouts?

Our rebuilt defense
Oliver Ekman Larsson/Charlie McAvoy
John Moore/Brandon Carlo
Zdeno Chara/Jeremy Lauzon
Jacob Zboril/Connor Clifton

{carry 8 dmen so Zboril can get a chance to play some... if he fails so be it. Moore is in the lineup because I think he could still rebound with the right opportunity, but if he falters we got Jeremy Lauzon wanting to step up and of course we have Chara who will often step up on nights where he is feeling good}

Im going to just leave Tuuka Rask on our team... if we wanted to give him time off early in the year for his family, then we see what Danial Vladar can do. Halak actually is a capable lower level starter we can plug in as needed.

so whats the cap hit for this team?

1.5 mill retention for backes
2.25 mill retention for krejci
1 mill penalty for bonuses earnt in 2019-20 {team election to take around 1/2 now 1/2 next year}
$45, 734,758 {forwards}
$21,550,000 {dmen}
$9,250,000 {goalies}
total $81,284,758

This pushes our cap pretty much right to the upper limits... but there is a chance we will end up losing Rask to some sort of suspension/retirement.

I think we upgrade throughout the lineup

Hall... upgrade over Debrusk
Studnicka... wont be able to replace krejci yet but Hall doubles to replace both Krejci/and Debrusk
Ryan... upgrade over Nordstrom
Anderson... upgrade over Bjork
Senyshyn... i think he will give us what wagner did

Larson... upgrade over krug
we replace grezlyck with whatever kid steps up {lauzon?}

the only prized kids im giving up are
urho vaikanainen and whoever the 2021 first round might be
we keep Federic/Beecher/Kuhlman/Studnicka up front
we got a couple other guys i think will end up playing in the system as well

we have lost most of our best defensive depth... but kids like wolfe/ahcan were signed
because we think they have a chance to be players.

im giving both senyshyn and zboril a chance to salvage their legacy in boston... i actually feel that both will end up making it in some role. im not throwing them into main roles though. they will have to prove they can play

bergeron/marchand have suffered some defensively the last couple years with pastrnak as their winger... the pressure to become first line scorers. i think these guys are better when they matchup against the other team's top line and shut it down. as they get older the next 2-3 years it will be easier on them playing more of a second line role anyhow.

and I do think pastrnak will respond well to hall's high tempo game. pastrnak has done well mostly becomes hes so damn good. he hasnt really clicked with Bergeron or krejci and their slower style of play. in fact, pastrnak scored as well with riley nash centering him and marchand.

we would have 2 outstanding pp with my moves

number 1
Marchand/Bergeron/Pastrnak
Hall/Larsson

number 2
Ryan/Studnicka/Coyle
Kase/McAvoy


​

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Bolded No. 1: Yes I did say that and I am correct if you look at past drafts and percentages of prospect success from those positions.

Bold No. 2: No, not really. Using Pastrnak’s name there isn’t helping your case— it’s helping mine. Go on HockeyDB and look at the past drafts to see why. Actually, I can tell you why. You’ll be searching all the way back to the 2003 draft, 17 years (!) ago to find someone who’s had somewhat similar production to Pastrnak. Corey Perry.

Aside from Corey Perry there, who’s also an outlier, the next crop shrinks to Kyle Palmieri and Rickard Rakell. Palmieri is a fine player, as is Rakell, but neither are Pastrnak. I’ll even give you Shea Theodore as well as he was drafted in that range.

Palmieri and Rakell, two players taken in that range and are better than Kase right now, is what you’re looking at over the last 17 drafts in the NHL.

Pastrnak, Perry and like I said, Theodore I’ll give you, are the exceptional (definitely Pastrnak and Perry, whereas Theodore is up for debate) three players. In the last 17 years. Three exceptional players taken in the range of 25 to the end of the first-round.

You’re far more likely to find and draft someone less talented than Ondrej Kase there. So yes, the “meatball” is far more likely to be drafted than Pastrnak.

ok... so he is offering me a boat if I take his deal and dont pull the curtain to check what my mystery prize is going to be... but... but...

the mystery prize could be anything... it might even be a boat

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

one of the historical most biggest trades of picks for a player in history was when scott stevens moved from Washington to st louis. Washington got either 2 first rounders {as long as one was top 7} or 5 picks otherwise

the picks turned into
Trevor Halverson
Sergei Gonchar
Brendon Witt
Nolan Baumgartner
Miika Eloma

so basically Gonchar was a pretty good dman but never as good as stevens… witt was a decent second pair guy who you could usually find in free agency if you didnt happen to have him yourself... and the other 3 guys are really almost nothing

do you think stevens was worth more than these 5 picks as things turned out?

wayne gretzky was traded for 3 first round picks... they turned into
Jason Miller
Martin Ruccinsky
Nick Stajduhar

one half decent second liner... 2 busts

people here get all upset boston has only 1 surefire nhl player in the debrusk draft... but we see history where washinton blew 3 of 5 picks... Edmonton blew 2 of 3 picks...

if you hold onto your draft picks with a death grip when you could be using them to land a truely legitimate difference maker... thats just dumb.

of course, you shouldnt trade them for just any tom, dick, or harry either. Ray Bourque was a pick we got in a trade... sometimes the picks do turn out pretty damn good

but overall... I daresay... the % is that if you are getting a legitimate second line nhl player for a late 20's pick... then you are at worst breaking even. Most picks in 20-30 never have careers better than Kase

 

[Aussie Bruin]

In other news: Australia has an ice hockey league. I had no idea.

Yes we do. Come to a game in Melbourne when fans are actually allowed in arenas again and chances are you will find me there cheering on the Melbourne Ice (ok, not the most original name, but it's a major sporting city and most of the good sports nicknames are already taken).

The standard is so-so - probably just a cut above a good American beer league, as there is very little money in hockey here and most of the players have regular jobs - but it's watchable and it's just nice to have some hockey to attend in-person.

 

[Gordoff]

Yes we do. Come to a game in Melbourne when fans are actually allowed in arenas again and chances are you will find me there cheering on the Melbourne Ice (ok, not the most original name, but it's a major sporting city and most of the good sports nicknames are already taken).

The standard is so-so - probably just a cut above a good American beer league, as there is very little money in hockey here and most of the players have regular jobs - but it's watchable and it's just nice to have some hockey to attend in-person.

Sorry mod's, a question that's OT, not to derail the conversation but:
Just curious, you say that there's very little money in hockey there? Do you know what the players make? Until fairly recently, NHL players had to hold other jobs (off season) to survive.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Sorry mod's, a question that's OT, not to derail the conversation but:
Just curious, you say that there's very little money in hockey there? Do you know what the players make? Until fairly recently, NHL players had to hold other jobs (off season) to survive.

I would say players didnt need second jobs to survive here in the NHL since the late 1970's...

seems to me I remember the minimum salary in early 1980's to be like 70 000... even if im off a bit with my memory thats equivalent to around 210 000 in todays inflation.

The WHA which started in the early 1970s really changed the Pay structure for the NHL... guy's who couldnt get decent contracts in the NHL jumped to the new rival league. Soon the NHL was forced to compete. By the time the dust settled, Wayne Gretzky had his 20 year 20 million dollar deal with Peter Puck and things would never be the same again. WHA actually is credited with awarding the first million dollar contract when they lured Bobby Hull to Winnipeg of all places.

The guys in the 1970s never made the type of money that let them retire comfortably to mansion living but they were earning quite a lot of money compared to regular americans and more than enough to live on a single income